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Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
Graphedit to capture the CC information from an analog stream. The WinTV software (from version 7 and up) won't touch ANY CC's unless they are from Digital TV and like sources. The newer hardware does seem capable of dealing with the analog video CC's in their own way.
So as far as this raw CC data is concerned maybe CCextractor just won't deal with it at all then?
Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
Also somewhat strange - I did two 1 hour CC captures back to back with the HVR955Q and the final .BIN files both of them appeared to have been corrupted by something. I found this out when I attempted to roll the raw data into .SRT files with BOTH Captioneer AND CCextractor. I later recapped the same content with the HVR-1950 just doing a CC data dump to a file and both captures came out fine.
* I have been successful at simply capturing analog video/audio (albeit low rez compared to my PVR-2+ device) with WinTV-10. Original content signal input to the device via the "external analog inputs" (i.e. the breakout cable)
* I have been successful at tuning in/capturing video/audio (via the coax input) (albeit low rez compared to my PVR-2+ device) with WinTV-10 from a device that will modulate its output to a cable type TV channel.
* Zero success at all capturing OR displaying CC's or subtitles from an ANALOG video source
* Zero success at ALL using this device and it's associated filters with GraphEdit to display analog video
* Limited success at using this device and it's associated filters with GraphEdit to display CC's from analog video. I get captures of raw CC data using the dump filter but the resultant captions are garbled, semi-half there with partial words misspellings etc... Basically unusable.
The HVR-950 and HVR-955 devices are similarly supported on the hauppauge web site and their treatment of these devices on a support level is similar. I have no idea if the 950 when used with GraphEdit will utilize a different set of filters than the 955. I will conclude that for ANYTHING other Digital-TV, QAM TV channel capture (both of which according to HPG support has full CC support), or simple analog A/V capture, the 955 is pretty useless for doing any serious analog Closed Caption work. I cannot speak to the Digital/QAM TV captioning performance as I do not subscribe to or have access to either of those mediums. IF ANYONE here can speak to any of the above points I mentioned as UN-successful please let me know.
The HVR-1950 on the other hand has been OUTSTANDING for doing captions from an analog source. The CC data dumps from this device via Graph, and then decoded to .SRT via CCextractor are EXACT duplicates of the original content caption information. One can then sync these back to the edited content with ease via SubEdit.
Last edited by thghgv; 3rd Jan 2021 at 19:23.
I don't yet have the HVR-950Q. I'll try mine out when it arrives to see if I can get better results than you did. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow via the USPS but as of yesterday, it was still over 1,000 miles away so that prediction may be overly optimistic.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
Last edited by thghgv; 5th Jan 2021 at 14:37.
You asked about the meaning of various colors used in GraphStudioNext at one point. I found some answers at the developer site.
GraphStudioNext Connection Colors
Magenta = Other
Black = Stream
Cyan = Audio
Green = Video
Orange = Subtitle
Purple = Mixed
GraphStudioNext Filter Colors
Light Gray = Unknown
Light Blue = Standard
Orange = WDM
Green = DMOIgnore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
I decided to have another go at building filter graphs with GraphStudioNext. I had a little success using the XBar filter and Capture Filter from the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-550Q, plus the VBI Codec Filter (for its CC pin) pin with the Video Mixing Renderer 9 Filter to view video with CC's overlaid on it but I had no success with capturing CCs in a separate file.
Then, I had the idea to try to build a graph with some filters that I had more experience with. I built a filter graph combining the XBar filter and Capture Filter from the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-550Q and the VBI Codec Filter with the ATI MPEG Video Encoder, ATI MPEG Audio Encoder, ATI MPEG Muxer, and ATI File writer from my old Diamond/ATI TV Wonder 600 USB to see what would happen. I was able to get an MPEG2 video file with good CCs stored in the GOP user data. If I can get a graph fully working for both capturing an mpg file containing MPEG-2 video + CCs and a viewer for monitoring, then I'll try to see if I can get the drivers for the Diamond/ATI TV Wonder 600 USB to install in my Windows 7 HTPC without plugging in the device itself.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
If I'm understanding this correctly, with the 955Q, I could simply plug the analog composite video out (non-RF, rca connector) from the SAT, to the video in RCA jack on the 955Q breakout and that would provide a recorded WINTV8.5 file containing the needed MPEG user data? So no need for RF machinations?
GraphStudioNext that contains a third-party MPEG-2 video software encoder filter that accepts both video input and CC input.
I remembered a VideoHelp forum post made some time ago which indicated that two other Hauppauge TV tuner/analog capture devices that used software encoding could work with encoder filters from my ATI TV Wonder 600 USB and decided I should try it. If the filters can be installed without having an ATI TV Wonder 600 USB, I can provide the installer to you.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to work on the graph since Sunday. At age 101, my mother needs a lot of help and has been keeping me busy.
Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th Jan 2021 at 11:34.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
I have tried using graphedit - specifically the filters associated with the 955Q's drivers to display an activemovie monitor and the incoming analog video signal with the captions being decoded in that monitor. Doesn't work with ANY of the native hauppauge "filterage" at all... There are other filters that "MIGHT WORK" which would require installing the supporting software (drivers) for other devices (present or not actually present on the system) that might be able to do the job but I do not have access to anything other than the HPG stuff...
I will say I HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL at ripping the CC data off of the analog output signal of a dish net PVR, but ONLY with an older HPG device that is not made anymore, and NOT using wintv to do it, rather using Graphedit and the associated HPG filters of that older device instead. With the HVR-1950 I am able to use a graphedit filter to monitor and capture the CC information being relayed thru line21 on the composite video signal to a raw data file. Then taking that RAW data and running a conversion on it to .SRT (subtitle format) with CCextractor it's a relatively simple task to sync the SUBtitles to the already edited and processed HD matroska file using SUBedit. Once a syncing pass has been done on the Subtitles, simply MUX them into the finished MKV using NO EXTRA COMPRESSION and all done..
Last edited by thghgv; 15th Jan 2021 at 19:56.
Wednesday night, I had time to work some more on capturing CCs from the 950Q with GraphStudioNext. I was able to successfully capture some .mpg files with video, sound, and good GOP user-data closed captions using the 950Q's composite video and analog stereo audio connections as well as monitor the capture. I haven't been able to capture just the CCs by themselves but CCExtractor GUI can extract CCs in SRT format from the captured video file.
I used the following filters for the capture: The WinTV-950 XBar filter and WinTV-950 Capture filter from the 950Q plus the VBI Codec filter, along with the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB's ATI MPEG Video Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Audio Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Multiplexer filter, and ATI MPEG File Writer filter.
I'll try posting a short sample video when I get the chance.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
graphedit app itself and the graphedit binary needs to be stopped and restarted.. It's an imperative to be able to monitor what you are capturing in order to prevent writing of bogus CC data (half decoded words, misspelled words, missing dialog, etc...) to file. With the filter set I have I cannot get the 955Q to display anything due to filter pin incompatibilities. I conjure that the ATI filters are what is giving you success in this realm.
Are the ATI drivers able to be installed, and filters used WITHOUT the actual ATI hardware being installed in the system? Looking thru the availability of the driver-ware for the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB it would seem there are no actual WIN7 class drivers available only Vista class.
ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Driver 10.4 Windows Vista(x32/x64)
File Name: 10-4_vista32-64_t600usb_wdm.exe
OS: Windows Vista(x32/x64)
File Size: 41.90 Mb
Release Date: 28 Apr 2010
Last edited by thghgv; 16th Jan 2021 at 18:29.
[Attachment 56815 - Click to enlarge]
[Edit]I have the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB drivers installed on a Windows 8.1 system and had them installed on a Windows 7 system at one time, so there must be a way to install the Vista drivers. The question of installing them without the device is still unanswered.
Last edited by usually_quiet; 16th Jan 2021 at 22:25.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
An item of possible interest, at least on my system here, the 32 bit version of GraphEdit does not yield the same usable filter set that I have going above. There were no adequate substitutes for the avi compressor or color space converter, which was where I was having issues from before when trying to use the Hauppauge equivalents and ended up with show stopping filter pin incompatibilities.
Another item of interest is that NONE of the device driver filters I have here for the HVR-955Q are labeled as "HVR-955Q" - it's all labeled "Hauppauge Cx23100" this or that. Not really sure what to make of that...
Last edited by thghgv; 17th Jan 2021 at 18:55.
I haven't had time to do more work on installation w/o the hardware and I am still very sore as well. I did find something that mentioned using the "INF" file in the driver package to install drivers. I think I did use that method one time to install drivers for a wireless card but my memory of what I did has faded. I'm going to look into it further to make sure I fully understand what to do.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
graphedit unless that particular device is installed or connected to the system somehow.. Maybe it's different for the ATI devices, not really sure about that as I don't have any of them to test with... I'm sure you can force the software installs, but whether they are available as usable filters might be another story entirely...
On the other hand, even if they install successfully, any filters that are tied to the TV tuner/analog capture device's hardware definitely aren't going to be available for the Direct Show graph-building software to use if that device is not connected. By this I mean BDA Tuner, XBar, and Capture filters, plus, if the TV tuner/analog capture device also uses its internal hardware to encode video and audio and multiplex them for output, then the Direct Show filters for those functions as well.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
I found a solution of sorts.
I did an Internet search and discovered that if the DirectShow filters that one wants to install are in a DLL then they can be registered by opening cmd.exe with administrator privileges and running regsvr32.exe with an argument consisting of the path to the DLL enclosed in quotes. Since I had the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB plugged in when I installed the drivers on my laptop, I looked at the properties window for several of the ATI filters that I wanted to install and found they were associated with "C:\Program Files\Common Files\ATI Technologies\Multimedia\atimpenc64.dll"
I copied the "ATI Technologies" folder and its contents to "C:\Program Files\Common Files" on another computer on which I had previously installed GraphStudioNext 0.7.1.61 64-bit.
I opened cmd.exe with administrator privileges, typed in "regsvr32.exe "C:\Program Files\Common Files\ATI Technologies\Multimedia\atimpenc64.dll"", and all the ATI DirectShow filters that I wanted to use showed up in GraphStudioNext 0.7.1.61 64-bit.
I installed the WinTV HVR-950Q drivers on the same computer but I haven't been able to get the WinTV HVR-950Q working. I initially had the same problem on my laptop but for some unknown reason after several tries, the WinTV HVR-950Q mysteriously began working. If I can get everything working maybe I can upload the folder containing the ATI DLL to VideoHelp.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
I have been working with CC data captures from both the HVR-955Q and the HVR-1950. I can say with out a doubt that the captures from the HVR-1950 are generally better with regard to the state and quality of the data captured. I have been getting some VERY sketchy captures from the HVR-955Q that involves missing pieces of dialog, partial word captures, times skewed forwards or backwards etc... I cannot say for certain if it's filters, file conversions, or what the heck... But as a general rule I have more issues with captures off the 955 that any coming off the 1950...
This is not something that is readily apparent until one starts syncing the subs to video/audio.
Last edited by thghgv; 22nd Jan 2021 at 13:19.
GraphStudioNext as you described, as long as the DLL is present on the computer.
Unfortunately, the DLL didn't get copied on to my PC when I attempted to install drivers without the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB. Without access to an ATI TV Wonder 600 USB, the DLL has to be copied onto the PC from another PC where one was present during driver installation.Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
In this case, it's the content itself. There is a disparity happening between the older, already edited cuts of broadcast content and the NEWER broadcast cuts of the "same" content... The reasons I have found for the missing/inaccurate pieces of dialog, the discrepancies with timing, etc are due to the fact that the older and newer SOURCES of the "same" content are in fact NOT exactly the same cuts of material.
I have another series of content that I have started to archive wherein I am pulling the 5.1 surround audio & HD video content AND CC data from the same source broadcast material. In this instance all one has to do is sync each CC data segment up at the beginning of its corresponding audio/video and it's all in perfect alignment and dialog is exact, except in the rare cases where there is an error in captioning, spelling or punctuation etc...
So it really does all work rather famously after all with either capture device - HVR-955Q or HVR-1950.
I am attempting to eliminate doing 2 passes to capture complete HD video + HD surround audio + CCdata from the Dishnet device. I have another test machine that I have many different win images for (win7, 8, 10, ent server etc..). So I am thinking that capturing CCdata with that machine whilst on the same pass of the source material I have my original machine capture the FULL HD a/v content. This will cut capture times in 1/2 requiring only a single run of the source material to capture EVERYTHING...
So I attempted to install WINTV10 to the win10 machine which promptly failed. Kept saying "there's no internet connection" when there clearly was.. So I am now switching OS builds on that test box to WIN7-Ultimate.. I will then try the install of wintv10 and the 1950 and 955Q drivers on that box and see if I can get a graph to collect CC data going on it. Before I nuked the Win10 image off the test box I tried to simply install GraphEdit and the HPG DRIVERS (without wintv) for the two capture devices. The drivers installed correctly so began attempting to build some graphs. Turns out I get an "access denied" error each time I tried to use the Hauppauge Video Capture filter (a show stopper at the very least) - all the other filters I needed to fire up a working CCdata capture graph were fine EXCEPT for that one filter. Tried reinstalling everything "as administrator" (my regular account is already admin anyway but...) and running GraphEdit "as admin" to no avail... I get the same errors for both flavors of GraphEdit (x86 or X64)...
Hopefully win7 will come to save the day... This should be a real time saver if I can get it to work.
Last edited by thghgv; 13th Feb 2021 at 18:35.
Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329