Conversion 4:3 to 16:9

[davexnet]

^^ My apologies. You already had that covered.

@Davexnet


Could not access that link. Received a malware warning. And when I looked earlier, I could not the specs on IMDB. Oh well.


But it just shows how wrong the info on a DVD cover can be.

It's the same as all these dodgy streaming sites - I use Firefox with Ublock Origin and I don't have any issues there
I took a quick look at it. also seems to be the 1.66 A/R version, so maybe not worth pursuing.
Picture quality is pretty good though

[Sharc]

Here a screenshot of what is claimed to be the original trailer. It's 1.66:1. One sees the black sidebars on the 16:9 screen. Same as davexnet's HD version in post#177. Back to field zero.
Strange to find screenshots of 1.85:1 with clearly extended picture content though. Maybe it has never been released as DVD or BD in the 1.85 format.

[cholla]

The IMDB linked worked as it should no warning.
The video link worked this time but 2 warnings.
One from Avast & one from uBlock.
The video did play however.
I believe it was made from the blu ray 1.85:1 version as it did have more picture or screen.
@ Sharc,
I will alter the video as I deem necessary.

Strange to find screenshots of 1.85:1 with clearly extended picture content though. Maybe it has never been released as DVD or BD in the 1.85 format.

This is the back jacket from a blu ray I found online:

[Attachment 80821 - Click to enlarge]

This is the part of the movie jacket that shows the resolution on my DVD:

[DB83]

I'm probably having a senior moment but I went back to the clip I posted a while back - the one initially cropped to 390 pixels and the side-bars.

According to my calculation, the active picture is 1.63:1. So then 1.66:1 is more accurate than what IMDB reports.

[Sharc]

I'm probably having a senior moment but I went back to the clip I posted a while back - the one initially cropped to 390 pixels and the side-bars.

According to my calculation, the active picture is 1.63:1. So then 1.66:1 is more accurate than what IMDB reports.

Depends how one crops the horse(01).vob, for example a little into the picture to remove the border artefacts. No game changer though. The resizing principles are the same.

[Sharc]

The IMDB linked worked as it should no warning.
The video link worked this time but 2 warnings.
One from Avast & one from uBlock.
The video did play however.
I believe it was made from the blu ray 1.85:1 version as it did have more picture or screen.
@ Sharc,
I will alter the video as I deem necessary.

Strange to find screenshots of 1.85:1 with clearly extended picture content though. Maybe it has never been released as DVD or BD in the 1.85 format.

This is the back jacket from a blu ray I found online:

[Attachment 80821 - Click to enlarge]

Buy that Blu-ray! It's 1920x1080p (16:9) square pixel, 1.85:1, no telecine, which should take away all of your headaches!

[DB83]

As for that online version, I managed to download some of it - no real interest in the whole thing - and that is 1.66:1

Complete name : I:\Recordings\The Horse Soldiers (1959) Full Movie - M4uHD.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size : 125 MiB
Duration : 11 min 30 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 514 kb/s
Writing application : Lavf58.29.100


Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 11 min 30 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 387 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 1 598 kb/s
Width : 1 200 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 5:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits

But surely if that bluray is 1.85:1 it is gonna have letter-boxing.

[Sharc]

But surely if that bluray is 1.85:1 it is gonna have letter-boxing.

Tiny borders top and bottom, 21 pixels each. Probably to most(?) viewers less annoying than the ~62 pixels sidebars of 1.66 releases. See my post#178, Fig. b).
@cholla: Buy it! Specifically that 1.85 edition.
Be careful though as there exist also Blu-ray 16:9 editions with 1.66 movie aspect ratio.

[jagabo]

The highest resolution file at m4uhd.tv was 1920x1148, square pixel, ~1.67:1 DAR. No black borders in the video. The MGM logo at the start and end was close to perfectly round. There were a few wagon wheels in the movie that looked a little too wide. None were perfectly aligned for measuring AR though.

[Sharc]

The highest resolution file at m4uhd.tv was 1920x1148, square pixel, ~1.67:1 DAR. No black borders in the video. The MGM logo at the start and end was close to perfectly round. There were a few wagon wheels in the movie that looked a little too wide. None were perfectly aligned for measuring AR though.

So playing this 1920x1148 ~1.67:1 variant on a 16:9 TV (1920x1080) would still leave us with one of the options
- accept side pillars (best to preserve the shape of the logos and wheels and full picture content)
- squash it vertically (logos slightly elliptic, wheels even slightly more wide=elliptic)
- crop it vertically by 68 pixels (loosing a bit of the vertical content, preserving the shape of the logos and wheels)

[cholla]

I tried 2 YouTube type downloaders i have & neither would work with the video that davexnet posted.
I have another one I will try but I do not expect it to work either.
I did take a screen shot as close as I could to the one Sharc posted in #182.
I had to take it in motion to get the full screen with no player visible.
To me it shows a bit more screen.I can see more of the cannon wheels.
This could be because of the frame the screen capture is from.It is more screen than the 1.66.1 on the dvd.

[Attachment 80839 - Click to enlarge]

[Sharc]

My recommendation: get the 1.85:1 in 16:9 1920x1080p square-pixel Blu-ray which you found in your post#183 and your issues and concerns are solved.

[DB83]

Just for a 'giggle', I took this 'HQ' version, upscaled that to 1080p (hence the small letter-boxing for 1.85:1 and compared that, suitabley upscaled, with the 1:66 DVD version what we only had before.

The result can be assessed in the comparison of the same frame - I think - from both. Sure, there is more info on all sides in the HQ. But when one considers how much extra info left and right to get that to 1.85:1 is required casts doubt in my mind that this newish (2022) bluray is really 1.85:1. Of course later in the film there may be sequences to justify that but not in the samples we currently have. And this is a film that I have no desire to obtain. It is only available Region A (not a playback issue for me) and, as stated, all other blurays are 1.66:1.

[cholla]

@ Sharc,
I just found the image of the jacket online.
I'm sure I can find the actual blu ray in 1.85:1 if I search for it.

@DB83,
I compared the screenshots the upscaled video is a lot darker & more space over the men's heads because they are smaller..

[DB83]

@cholla

I'll save you the search


https://www.amazon.com/Horse-Soldiers-John-Ford/dp/B09WW3RN32/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GYM8ERX...s%2C210&sr=8-2


As for the 'darker' video, you are missing the whole point of the comparison. And the 'smaller heads' is just nonsense.


But if you do get that bluray pls come back and post at least a cap since curiousity has got the better of me.

[cholla]

@cholla I'll save you the search

I will be looking for a used one from ebay.
For a better price.

As for the 'darker' video, you are missing the whole point of the comparison. And the 'smaller heads' is just nonsense.

I meant the men were smaller but the heads are smaller too.
Click the link & compare them with the slider

https://imgsli.com/MjgwNjE0

[DB83]

^^ You may have a long wait for a cheaper one. Even Ebay ones are as expensive right now.

OK. You do realise what happens if you zoom out on an view.

[DB83]

Anway, I found a review of the 'new' blu ray online

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Horse-Soldiers-Blu-ray/301244/#Overview


Loads of screen caps (not full size) but here is an example - original screen cap 728 * 410 (1.78:1 as you would expect). letter-box bars cropped = 728 * 390 (1.85:1) But is there more info than on the HQ file ? I think not and some of the caps just do not look right.

[DB83]

Hopefully, my very last post on this thread.

I took a closer look at the online version and compared that to the screencap above. What my eyesight tells me that there is information missing top and bottom on the new bluray whereas left and right are as close as damn it. I made a short clip suitable scaled that turns the 1.66:1 into 1.85:1 (or as close as I can) and you can then compare the cap to the new vid.

[Sharc]

On the other hand there are a number of screenshots on the www which are clearly 1.85 with clearly extra material left and right which is missing on the 1.66 releases. No idea where these shots were taken from.

[DB83]

Like I said, there is more information on the online version than on the dvd that we were working from before. The major difference is that the online version is 25 fps and the 'new' bluray is only available state-side.

It is possible that different cappers get a different take since the AR on the two caps is slightly different. Not enough to lose any sleep over.

[Sharc]

@cholla should have enough food for thought by now

[DB83]

^ Agreed. If only he followed the guidelines he has been presented with and not 'persist' with his 'half-assed' stretching.

[cholla]

I ordered a blu ray from an ebay business seller.
They said they could not tell me if it was the 1.66:1 or 1.85:1 version.
The reason was once it was in their warehouse the sales staff did not have access to the blu ray.
The shipping is free both directions so all I have to do is return it if it is the wrong one.
Just the pita of returning it.
Also waiting 8 to 14 days since the ship "media mail" .

Here is what I have ended up with for what I will burn the DVD if I do not get a 1.85:1 blu ray.
I'm sure I will eventually get one any way.
Then converting it to a DVD may be a challenge.
I know I can just play the blu ray & may decide to do just that.

This clip has a lot of wagon wheels.
They look like circles to me.
I guess if someone gets out their compass they might not be a true circle.

[davexnet]

That's clearly off, slightly too wide.
It's tricky, trying to guess with these scenes,there is not a shot where the wheel
is seen straight side to side and top to bottom

[Alwyn]

I reckon this is pretty close (the line of sight is just slightly down, so the wheel will look to be a smidgin wider):


[Attachment 80911 - Click to enlarge]

I resized it manually using trial and error in VDub using a screen capture app for the dimensions.

[davexnet]

Yeah, I saw that. I think it's close. Perhaps 720x432 or 800x480 for the earlier 1.66 A/R that was mentioned.
Ithink we've gone around in circles ourselves by now

[Sharc]

I think we've gone around in circles ourselves by now

Indeed, since long we have just been wasting our breath. The wheels.vob of post 204 is simply wrong, horizontally stretched and distorted (flat tires? ).
The cover says it's 1.66 (the former estimation - before seeing the cover - was ~1.65, sic). Then there is the NTSC DVD standard and basic maths.
Ignoring all this one may continue with some clueless tinkering forever.

[DB83]

Well I took a quick look at US Fleabay and found a 'seller' that matches @cholla's description for his purchase. For $2 - $10 no cover, case etc and all such sales showing the 2011 blu ray issue that is what I am sure our friend will get i.e. a 1.66:1 disk with beautiful sidebars

Maybe he will come back to this thread when the disk arrives.

[cholla]

@DB83,
This is the blu ray I purchased:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276373071119

The wheels.vob of post 204 is simply wrong, horizontally stretched and distorted (flat tires? ).

The wheels look like circles to me.
I matched the size with Irfanview but that should not change the circle only the size.
For a better comparison.
This is from the original DVD rip:
Irfanview has a measuring tool that I used:
orig
height width
178 px 190 px
1.727 in 1.618 in
0° 90°
43.87 mm 41.1 mm
Shows width 12 pixels wider.or .109 inches

[Attachment 80924 - Click to enlarge]
This is from the conversion to .mpg with ffmpeg.
Similar to Sharc's "zoom and crop, keeping the proportions intact".
I used my crop=720:390:8:43 but Sharc's scale=720:480.

[Attachment 80925 - Click to enlarge]
This is from my ffmpeg conversion to .mp4:

[Attachment 80926 - Click to enlarge]
This is that .mp4 converted back to DVD format with AVStoDVD.
This is from the video in post #204.
Height Width
177 px 187 px
1.7 in 1.609 in
0° 90°
43.18 mm 40.87 mm
Shows width 10 pixels wider.or .091 inch




[Attachment 80927 - Click to enlarge]