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  1. @ DB83 ,
    Would you post the ffmpeg codes you used for post #120 & post #136.

    @Sharc,
    I DLed the videos in #150 & watched them.
    I watched them on VLC .
    Should I have watched them on my BD player ?
    They looked a lot like other posted videos.
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  2. Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    @Sharc,
    I DLed the videos in #150 & watched them.
    I watched them on VLC .
    Should I have watched them on my BD player ?
    They looked a lot like other posted videos.
    You can watch them with any player. They should look and play correctly (especially the last 2 DVDi variants) with no borders on any 16:9 monitor, filling the screen, no borders.
    They are
    - hard telecined (just serving as an example for hard-telecining of 24fps film; I explained Telecine before)
    - converted in 1 hop from your original soft-telecined horse(01).vob into a NTSC DVD compliant format (mpeg2, 720x480, ac3 audio, 16:9 anamorphic widescreen and put into a .vob container) without taking a detour via square-pixel 1920x1080 etc.
    - using 1 ffmpeg commandline for all of the above

    (You can import the .vobs in any DVD authoring tool, like AVStoDVD or DVDStyler etc. They don't require re-encoding as they are already DVD compliant)

    It's not in conflict with other suggested variants by other users and my former versions. Just an attempt to producing it differently in 1 hop for anamorphic widescreen DVD compliant output, eliminating the borders and avoiding intermediate conversion steps.
    One example for zooming-cropping with undistorted picture, and the other example for your preferred horizontal stretching.

    There are many roads leading to Rome. Take the one which suits you best.

    Edit:
    Here the 2 ffmpeg commandlines which I used for the 2 DVDi variants. Hope I didn't miss anything.
    Code:
    :: Inverse Telecine the source, rescale and re-telecine (hard)
    
    REM ====== zoom and crop, keeping the proportions intact ==============
    ffmpeg -i "Horse(01).vob" -vf "scale=interl=1,setfield=tff,fps=30000/1001,fieldmatch,decimate,crop=716:358:2:48,scale=720:480,telecine=pattern=23:first_field=top,setdar=dar=16/9" -c:v mpeg2video -b:v 7000k -maxrate 9800k -bufsize 1835k -bf 2 -b_strategy 2 -mbd rd -trellis 2 -mbcmp 2 -precmp 2 -cmp 2 -subcmp 2 -skip_cmp 2 -mpv_flags qp_rd -flags +ilme+ildct -c:a ac3 -sn "Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_zoom-crop.vob"
    
    REM ====== stretched horizontally (cholla's preference) =========
    ffmpeg -i "Horse(01).vob" -vf "scale=interl=1,setfield=tff,fps=30000/1001,fieldmatch,decimate,crop=720:388,scale=720:480,telecine=pattern=23:first_field=top,setdar=dar=16/9" -c:v mpeg2video -b:v 7000k -maxrate 9800k -bufsize 1835k -bf 2 -b_strategy 2 -mbd rd -trellis 2 -mbcmp 2 -precmp 2 -cmp 2 -subcmp 2 -skip_cmp 2 -mpv_flags qp_rd -flags +ilme+ildct -c:a ac3 -sn "Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_stretched.vob"
    Last edited by Sharc; 13th Jul 2024 at 04:52. Reason: Commandlines added
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  3. Member DB83's Avatar
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    @cholla

    Ffmpeg was not used, at least directly, for my clips. I used a program called avidemux (which might well use ffmpeg to do the 'magic').


    I have not tried but I guess all can be done directly within avs2dvd but using the avisynth filters.
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  4. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I have not tried but I guess all can be done directly within avs2dvd but using the avisynth filters.
    Yes.
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  5. @ Sharc,
    The "Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_stretched.vob" uses this crop=720:388.
    What I used is very close crop=720:390:2:42.

    I got this by creating HORSE(B1).vob it has a 4 pixel red box around it.
    This was made from an original cut of the DVD ripped .vob.
    When it is cropped to the correct size the red box is gone.

    The "Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_zoom-crop.vob" works OK & except it is missing some of the original video.crop=716:358:2:48 Not much on the horizontal but more noticible on the verticle. Look at the corporal playing the banjo stripes.

    website with slide to compare:
    https://imgsli.com/Mjc4Nzg0

    AVStoDVD created a DVD from the .vob file I created with ffmpeg.
    It would not allow "Direct stream copy" of the video so it used HCinc.
    It did allow "Direct stream copy" of the audio.

    @DB83,
    I have AviDemux but it has been a long time since I used it.
    I'm sure it needs to be updated.

    I have never tried but Avisynth script could probably be added here:
    Image
    [Attachment 80698 - Click to enlarge]


    This is where AVStoDVD is set to use Avisynth :
    Image
    [Attachment 80699 - Click to enlarge]


    The videos are the redbox one & the one I did with AVStoDVD .
    Made from the .vobs created with ffmpeg.
    Using some of Sharc's code & some of mine.
    Image Attached Files
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  6. Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    The "Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_zoom-crop.vob" works OK & except it is missing some of the original video.crop=716:358:2:48 Not much on the horizontal but more noticible on the verticle. Look at the corporal playing the banjo stripes.
    Yes, of course. It's intentional, by design. I am afraid you stll seem not to understand the difference between just stretching horizontally = distorting the proportions = making circles to flat ovals = fat people, versus zooming-cropping = preserving the proportions by enlarging the picture horizontally AND vertically by the same factor= circles remain circles = people keeping their original non-fattened proportions.
    Think how to fit a 1.65:1 picture into a 16:9 frame. You have to make your choice between distorting the original picture by just stretching it horizontally, or keeping the proportions intact but sacrifice some vertical content (I cropped it from the bottom).
    I presented both options.

    If you want to preserve the full original picture content of the 1.65:1 picture UNDISTORTED (=keeping the geometric proportions intact, circles remaining circles) in a 16:9 frame you must accept the small black pillars left and right.
    Last edited by Sharc; 13th Jul 2024 at 17:18.
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  7. I took a couple of images with VDub2 so I could get close to the same frame.
    Different time s make exact difficult but they are close.
    Take a ruler & measure the shoulders of the man smoking the cigar.
    Both are almost the same I get 1 1/8 inches.(Windows Photo Viewer) for both
    In this post I get 1 1/4 inches for both.
    Expanded on when clicked on i get 2 1/8 to 2 3/16 inches.
    When I click back & forth in Windows Photo Viewer the get vertically stretched but less of the men are there.
    That seems to also distort proportions vertically.

    Don't get me wrong as the last ffmpeg codes you posted with my crop instead will help me make a better video.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	chollavob.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	202.8 KB
ID:	80707  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_zoom-crop.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	181.4 KB
ID:	80708  

    Last edited by cholla; 13th Jul 2024 at 18:26.
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  8. Your method of comparison is a bit doubtful and can be misleading. What you see as 720x480 are the anamorphic squashed DVD formats. You may better play and compare it as 16:9 in Vdub2 or on your TV. Unlike Blu-rays, DVDs are not square pixel. The pixel aspect ratio (PAR) of a 16:9 NTSC DVD is 32/27=1.185. You should see the tickmark set accordingly when you right click in the picture in VirtualDub2. You get this info (32/27) as well under File->File Information ..... Just watch the video in 16:9, as intended.
    But more important you can't measure and "compare" widths only, like shoulder widths. The widths/heights of objects need to be in correct relation (commonly known as "circles test"), assuming one plays the video at the intended DAR (Display Aspect Ratio, 16:9). Your player and TV should play it automatically as 16:9.
    And of course your (and my) stretched variants looks differently from a zoomed-cropped variant, as has been explained a couple of times.

    Your VTS_01_1.VOB in post#155 is now perfectly soft-telecined though, and it is virtually identical with my (non-preferred) 'stretched' version. The minor difference is because of slighly different cropping. I cropped a bit more from the top to remove the oversharpened horizontal borderline artifact and a few less from the bottom, as you can conclude from my ffmpeg commandline. That's all. See attached demo.

    Anyway I think we can just stop here. You process and shape it as you believe what's best for you. This is the most important and all what counts at the end.
    Image Attached Files
    Last edited by Sharc; 14th Jul 2024 at 12:25. Reason: demo attached
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  9. Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    What you see as 720x480 are the anamorphic squashed DVD formats. You may better play and compare it as 16:9 in Vdub2
    The images were made by using VDub2 using "Copy source frame to clipboard".
    Then using Irfanview to turn them into .jpg.
    The lower image was made from your Horse(01)_telecined_DVDi_zoom-crop.vob which MediaInfo shows as a 720x480 16/9.
    IDK if VDub2 copied them as "anamorphic squashed DVD formats".
    The information inVdub2 is as you posted & I had already checked it before copying the frame.

    Is there some setting in the ffmpeg code in post#152 that makes the video softer or less sharp ?

    I did some searching for this but I did not find much specific information on the settings.
    More on some than others.
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  10. Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    IDK if VDub2 copied them as "anamorphic squashed DVD formats".
    Yes. The DVD format is non square pixel = anamorphic. The player needs to stretch the picture horizontally by 32/27=1.185 to display it as 16:9. In Vdub you can right click into the picture and tick '16:9 frame (Wide)' or '1.185 pixel (Source)' to display it as intended on your TV (16:9).
    Perhaps re-read my post#109

    Is there some setting in the ffmpeg code in post#152 that makes the video softer or less sharp ?
    No. There is no softening filter included in that commandline.
    The commandline does essentially:
    - IVTC the soft-telecined source
    - crop and resize it
    - re-telecine it (hard telecining in this case)
    - encode it using mpeg2 codec (for DVD compliance)
    - multiplex the video and ac3 audio into a .vob container
    Last edited by Sharc; 15th Jul 2024 at 02:56.
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  11. @ Sharc,
    The photos in post #157 were taken the way you instructed in post # 160.
    I tested in a couple of photo programs I have & they stay the same as Irfanview created them.
    I tried both 1.185 & 16/9.
    This is a video of what I did?
    Image Attached Files
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    @Cholla, to export an image from VDub2: File>Export>Single Image.

    But be careful; simply changing the display AR using the right-click menu will not change the actual aspect ratio of the exported/copied image/video/single frame. The video itself has to match the aspect ratio you have chosen on the right-click menu.
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  13. Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    @ Sharc,
    The photos in post #157 were taken the way you instructed in post # 160.
    I tested in a couple of photo programs I have & they stay the same as Irfanview created them.
    I tried both 1.185 & 16/9.
    Yes, I understand. But take note that the 1.185 or 16/9 Vdub picture just shows how the video will eventually look on your 16:9 TV. However, what Vdub copies to the clipboard using 'Copy source frame to clipboard' is still the source format, means the anamorphic 720x480 squashed picture in case of an NTSC DVD source like your .vob. This makes it difficult for unexperienced users to draw the right conclusions on real geometric dimensions. Post #109 with its buzzwords as a hint what to google for.
    All this became easier with Blu-rays (HD) as these are usually 1920x1080 square pixel sources, means Pixel Aspect Ratio 1:1.

    Anyway, I think with your VTS_02_1.VOB of post#155 you produced something playable and "watchable" which can be put on DVD, how ever you made that one. Alternatively, the ffmpeg commandlines in post#152 should also produce what you want.
    Don't dispose the original DVD though, just in case you come to new conclusions ....
    Last edited by Sharc; 15th Jul 2024 at 16:22.
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  14. Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Yes, I understand. But take note that the 1.185 or 16/9 Vdub picture just shows how the video will eventually look on your 16:9 TV. However, what Vdub copies to the clipboard using 'Copy source frame to clipboard' is still the source format, means the anamorphic 720x480 squashed picture in case of an NTSC DVD source like your .vob.
    I usually take a "snap" with a media player like VLC & the image is what is on the screen.
    The reason I used VDub2 this time is I thought I could get a more precise "snap" for the two different videos.
    I have two programs that will let me expand a square around an image on screen & capture it.
    Then there is Windows Print Screen.
    Even so the images on the "anamorphic 720x480 squashed picture" will be what my TV does the "pulldown" to make it 16x9.
    If the expansion is proportionally equal on both videos then the measurements made should still be good.

    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Post #109 with its buzzwords as a hint what to google for.
    I did google the ffmpeg codes but not much information that explained what each one does.
    Some were explained better than others.
    For the rest I have read about most of those but I learn slower than I did when I was younger.


    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Don't dispose the original DVD though, just in case you come to new conclusions ....
    I wasn't going to. Why dispose of a DVD? I hope I never get so crowded for space disposing of a DVD will make a difference.
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