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  1. Member Troc's Avatar
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    I run a film studio. I've been using DVD Lab 2 Pro and DVDFab's BD & UHD Creators for my business. What sucks about UHD Creator is that there's zero menu options and even the BD Creator is limited in spite of me editing the configs, buttons and XML successfully to make for some customization.
    Is there an option out there for truly freeform Blu-ray or even 4K menu authoring? I would benefit from Blu-rays' improved capacity more if I could use them in a freer way. I am fully open to trying open source/more experimental stuff. If there's paid options that are reasonably priced, I'm also definitely interested in every one of them.
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    read this thread here - https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/379959-UHD-BD-Authoring-Tool
    and see post #22
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    Scenarist UHD is the industry standard for UHD Blu-ray authoring. Other choices for licensed professional UHD Blu-ray authoring software are listed here: https://dvd-logic.com/ I read some time ago that the Blu-ray Disc Association was working on a specification for UHD Blu-ray on burned media. However, as far as I know, the UHD Blu-ray standard is still restricted to pressed media.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 28th Oct 2020 at 17:50.
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  4. Member Troc's Avatar
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    Thank you for the reply. Should I delete this thread and comment there instead? I have some thoughts and would like to share in the appropriate place.
    I'm new here, sorry for being confused.
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  5. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Don't delete your thread,other people might find the info here useful.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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    @Troc You might as well share your thoughts in this thread. VideoHelp does not require members to add questions/comments to threads on the same topic that were started years ago.

    Here is what I know: Official support for consumer/low-cost Blu-ray authoring is lacking at this point, both from consumer electronics manufacturers and from the publishers of licensed consumer authoring software.

    Although some (not all) UHD Blu-ray players can navigate and play a UHD Blu-ray structure on burned BD-R XL media, if they do, support for BD-XL is rarely if ever listed in the player's specs. Plus, typically the UHD players that can read BD-R XL only read 2 layers out of 3, about 66GB.

    DVDFab is a source for consumer UHD authoring software but their software is reverse engineered rather than licensed by the Blu-ray Disc Association.

    Among publishers of licensed consumer Blu-ray authoring software, Cyberlink is the only one that I have heard of that has expressed any interest in UHD Blu-ray authoring. They released a statement in December 2017 which said that they were waiting for the Blu-ray Disc Association to finish a standard covering UHD Blu-ray on burned media before deciding whether or not to add UHD Blu-ray authoring to a future release of PowerDirector. Cyberlink typically releases a new version of PowerDirector in September but UHD Blu-ray authoring has not been added to any version of PowerDirector released since 2017. Either the new standard has not been released, or hardware UHD Blu-ray player support is still not where it needs to be, or Cyberlink feels that the demand for licensed, low-cost UHD Blu-ray authoring software is insufficient to justify the cost of adding the feature to its software.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 31st Oct 2020 at 13:22.
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  7. Member Troc's Avatar
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    Yeah, my knowledge is also limited to the facts that DVDFab functions for the purpose of putting 4K video into optical. Their Blu-ray Creator also works, even if it requires some manual workarounds to the templates. Even a normal person can see if a menu is a template and question my production values. Their ISOs work on my PC's 4K drive and my separate 4K player.

    It's interesting to hear that DVDFab software is reverse engineered, when I have in part reverse engineered it in a certain sense. It's interesting to learn about what goes into programs and using them. I sincerely believe that I'm getting the most out of DVDFab and would like to explore alternatives. Could it be possible to learn how to mod menus from UHD discs by exploring the directories of an UHD disc? I have several since I am a film lover.

    I'll bee keeping an eye out for Cyberlink. Years ago, when I tried some of their software, I wasn't convinced, but if they were to create a UHD program, that'd be something to look at. Of course, the hardest option would be to learn C and make my own from scratch.
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    Originally Posted by Troc View Post
    Yeah, my knowledge is also limited to the facts that DVDFab functions for the purpose of putting 4K video into optical. Their Blu-ray Creator also works, even if it requires some manual workarounds to the templates. Even a normal person can see if a menu is a template and question my production values. Their ISOs work on my PC's 4K drive and my separate 4K player.

    It's interesting to hear that DVDFab software is reverse engineered, when I have in part reverse engineered it in a certain sense. It's interesting to learn about what goes into programs and using them. I sincerely believe that I'm getting the most out of DVDFab and would like to explore alternatives. Could it be possible to learn how to mod menus from UHD discs by exploring the directories of an UHD disc? I have several since I am a film lover.

    I'll bee keeping an eye out for Cyberlink. Years ago, when I tried some of their software, I wasn't convinced, but if they were to create a UHD program, that'd be something to look at. Of course, the hardest option would be to learn C and make my own from scratch.
    After so much time has passed, I don't have much hope anymore that Cyberlink will add UHD Blu-ray authoring to its software. Unless you can afford to buy something from DVD-logic, trying to learn how to mod menus probably your only option, even if it is a very difficult one to pursue. I doubt there is any way that you could gain access to any official specifications. According to one of our pro members, access to technical documents for Blu-ray and especially UHD Blu-ray is limited to well-established industry insiders. In addition, these documents are costly, and obtaining them also requires signing a non-disclosure agreement with stiff penalties if someone breaks the agreement.
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  9. Member Troc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    After so much time has passed, I don't have much hope anymore that Cyberlink will add UHD Blu-ray authoring to its software. Unless you can afford to buy something from DVD-logic, trying to learn how to mod menus probably your only option, even if it is a very difficult one to pursue. I doubt there is any way that you could gain access to any official specifications. According to one of our pro members, access to technical documents for Blu-ray and especially UHD Blu-ray is limited to well-established industry insiders. In addition, these documents are costly, and obtaining them also requires signing a non-disclosure agreement with stiff penalties if someone breaks the agreement.
    That makes a lot of sense, since it is a profitable secret to know. I wonder, what programming language would be the best to learn in the pursuit of 4K menu creation?
    DVD Logic's software is very expensive and they also refuse to sell to my studio, since they don't "see it as a financial opportunity". That's a bunch of nonsense, since the financial opportunity starts and ends with me purchasing the software. My current notoriety, wealth or future endeavors have nothing to do with them.
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  10. Blu-Disc Studio developer
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    Hi Troc,
    DVDLogic do not refuse anyone to buy their software. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding? Can you write by email (support@dvd-logic.com) or via PM, what software are you interested in?
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  11. Dear customer!
    It is not in our rules to refuse someone, since the point of any business is to sell, support and provide a service. We are sorry, but perhaps you misunderstood our words or we did not express ourselves clearly enough. Please email us to support@dvd-logic.com and we promise to understand your needs and provide a suitable solution and great discount.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding and I'm sure we can solve everything with a win-win strategy.
    Last edited by DVDLogic; 2nd Nov 2020 at 12:25.
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  12. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @Troc,
    I think it is a more likely scenario that it costs a company (such as DVDLogic, Cyberlink, etc) say...$300k+ to develop an app (and another chunk to license it from BD licensors), and more to market & sell it. They expect to recoup that cost. If the app is very professional, they can charge $1k and only need to sell it to say 1000 people to improve on their investment. But if they sell the item for $50, they need to sell it to 200k users to get the same ROI, and there just aren't that many users willing/needing to buy UHD BD authoring app.

    On the topic of menu creation:
    DVD, or BD/UHDBD menus are a combination of 3 things - 1) a background graphic, 2) a graphic overlay + hotspot areas (usually rectangular), and 3) the linking commands that engage when you invoke one of those hotspots.
    #1 and #2 just use standard graphics tools to create the assets (though in DVD's case, those assets are not very standard format). #3 is DVD/BD machine OP-code or an abstraction of it by the compiling module of the authoring app if the app abstracts that layer. Or A BD-J (BD-specific subset of a JavaVM). So, in that instance, you could learn Java, but to be helpful to authoring, you'd have to also learn the BD-J specifics (which $$$). However, I would guess that 60%+ of commercial discs do not use BD-J but rather use the simpler machine OPcode, and I would extend that guess to say that 99% of semi-pro/home users do not use BD-J. So really, there's no real "programming language" to learn, other than those abstracted machine OPcode linking commands. One can still do some cool things with them, but it's often totally lost on the great majority of users.


    Scott
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    I found another option for UHD Blu-ray, Blu-Disc Studio UHD, but I don't know what it costs relative to the other professional choices.
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  14. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I found another option for UHD Blu-ray, Blu-Disc Studio UHD, but I don't know what it costs relative to the other professional choices.
    $3500.00

    [edit] i forgot


    that's for 1 year.
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I found another option for UHD Blu-ray, Blu-Disc Studio UHD, but I don't know what it costs relative to the other professional choices.
    $3500.00

    [edit] i forgot


    that's for 1 year.
    Thanks. It's obvious now that this one isn't a product meant for small studios.
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  16. Member Troc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    @Troc,
    I think it is a more likely scenario that it costs a company (such as DVDLogic, Cyberlink, etc) say...$300k+ to develop an app (and another chunk to license it from BD licensors), and more to market & sell it. They expect to recoup that cost. If the app is very professional, they can charge $1k and only need to sell it to say 1000 people to improve on their investment. But if they sell the item for $50, they need to sell it to 200k users to get the same ROI, and there just aren't that many users willing/needing to buy UHD BD authoring app.

    Scott
    That makes a lot of sense, actually. After all, developing software is not something done out of charity. If only there was an open source alternative to 4K menus, I'd be an extremely happy camper.
    I was surprised that this was so complicated, it feels as though it is unapproacable by design. Thank you for your thoughtful words.
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  17. Blu-Disc Studio developer
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    $3500.00
    ...
    that's for 1 year.
    Not quite. You can use it without time limit. But new updates will be available during a year.
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  18. Member Troc's Avatar
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    Alright, I must clarify: DVD Logic is cool. They immediately contacted me about my last messages and answered my questions thoroughly. I must've mistaken them to another company - I contacted many authoring software creators at the same time when I was seeking a good option. I'm sorry for this mistake.
    Last edited by Troc; 3rd Nov 2020 at 09:58.
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    Originally Posted by Troc View Post
    If only there was an open source alternative to 4K menus, I'd be an extremely happy camper.
    An open-source UHD Blu-ray authoring project would have to be reverse-engineered. The open nature of the code would probably break the non-disclosure agreement required to obtain the technical documentation for UHD Blu-ray.

    Based on what happened with Blu-ray authoring, there probably won't be any. Look at the Blu-ray Authoring section and the All-In-One Blu-ray Converter section in VideoHelp's software section and you'll see what I mean. Blu-ray has been around since 2006 but there are just a few free options for Blu-ray authoring with menus and they are no longer being maintained. One, Blu-Disc Studio Lite, is discontinued. (See https://blu-disc.net/versions) I don't recall seeing any that are open-source and include menu creation.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 3rd Nov 2020 at 12:17. Reason: added link, edited for clarity
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    A new consumer-friendly Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray authoring solution has just been released: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/399490-DVDLogic-BD-Wizard-v1-0-released%21
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  21. Member Troc's Avatar
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    I'll have to check that out definitely.
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