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  1. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    I've been diving in to Hybrid after seeing lordsmurf's praise of it, and I like what it offers, despite the dozens of progressively-less-failed attempts I've made to get a usable workflow out of it.

    After attempting to deinterlace, resize and tidy up a 720x480 29.97 Huffyuv VHS capture and getting some nice but jerky results -- frame-by-frame viewing showed periods of great deinterlacing for seconds at a time, then a couple of frames where all the action backed up for a few frames, then forward again, giving the appearance of stuttering during playback -- I spotted an advice nugget to use the 'faster' mode in QTGMC (though Hybrid says slower=better quality) and enable LibavVideoSource instead of FFmpegSource.

    Doing more than one thing in one step in Hybrid seemed inadvisable, so I've fallen back to trying to get the first step right -- just deinterlacing and staying in huffyuv. But man, I'm not even getting that right. When I found a combo that gave smooth deinterlaced playback, I still ended up with an .avi that reads as 600 fps. Not 59.94, but 600. Mediainfo says so, Explorer says so, and when I run it through Hybrid for more filtering, that doesn't go well.

    Some cursory searching hasn't turned up anything about QTGMC handing out 600-fps files, so I'm turning to you.
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  2. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    I'm new enough to Hybrid that I didn't know it left one for me to read. I'll go look for it and post it.
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  3. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    Ok, here's the script Hybrid generates and uses during the processing:

    ClearAutoloadDirs()
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\Load Dll.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\LSMA SHSource.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\AddG rainC.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\dftt est.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\EEDI 2.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\eedi 3.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\FFT3 DFilter.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\mask tools2.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\mvto ols2.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\TDei nt.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\RgTo ols.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\Medi anBlur2.dll")
    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\nned i3.dll")
    LoadCPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\Hybrid\32bit\AVISYN~1\yad if.dll")
    LoadDLL("C:\Program Files\Hybrid\32bit\avisynthPlugins\libfftw3f-3.dll")
    Import("C:\Program Files\Hybrid\32bit\avisynthPlugins\QTGMC.avsi")
    Import("C:\Program Files\Hybrid\32bit\avisynthPlugins\SMDegrain.avsi" )
    Import("C:\Program Files\Hybrid\32bit\avisynthPlugins\Zs_RF_Shared.av si")
    SetFilterMTMode("DEFAULT_MT_MODE", MT_MULTI_INSTANCE)
    # loading source: \\10.0.0.135\AV Work\video capture raw\clients\2020-10-15 client ellen day\usb3-capture attempt 5-short clip.avi
    # color sampling RGB32@8, matrix: pc601, scantyp: top field first, luminance scale: full
    LWLibavVideoSource("\\10.0.0.135\AV Work\VDVQLX~2\clients\2NDT50~B\ULAQCY~K.AVI",cache =false,format="YUV444P8", prefer_hw=0)
    # current resolution: 720x480
    # deinterlacing
    ConvertToYV24(interlaced=true, matrix="PC.601")
    AssumeTFF()
    QTGMC(Preset="Faster", ediThreads=2)
    # filtering
    PreFetch(6)
    return last
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  4. Script looks fine, probably a bug in the muxing job creation.
    Can't say more without a debug output of the analysis of the source and the job creation.
    Regarding problems please read: needed infos
    -> create a proper debug output and attach it.

    Cu Selur
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  5. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    File samples are attached. First pass creates a 600 fps file. Next pass creates a file that says it's 600 fps as well, and plays zippy quick.

    Clip from original capture: https://files.videohelp.com/u/128691/usb3-capture%20attempt%205-sample-huffyuv.avi

    First pass with bottom field first -- clearly wrong: https://files.videohelp.com/u/128691/usb3-capture%20attempt%205-sample-huffyuv-step1-q...pt%201-bff.avi

    First pass with top field first -- mostly decent deinterlacing, at 600fps?: https://files.videohelp.com/u/128691/usb3-capture%20attempt%205-sample-huffyuv-step1-q...pt%202-tff.avi

    Next pass with light denoise and level adjustment is a mess: https://files.videohelp.com/u/128691/usb3-capture%20attempt%205-sample-huffyuv-step2-d...%20huffyuv.avi
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  6. Without a debug output: no clue
    Like I wrote probably a problem with the muxing call (setting the flag wrong or not handling the raw stream properly).
    Can look at it later today in case you manage to share a proper debug output.
    ---
    I can reproduce the issue seems to be an issue with the mencoder muxing call:
    Code:
    mencoder -ovc copy "E:\Temp\usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv_2020-10-21@06_50_04_6210_03.avi" -force-avi-aspect 1.5 -nosound -ofps 60000/1001 -of lavf -o "E:\Output\usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv.avi"
    works fine when using mkv as output container instead of avi.
    -> will look at the avi muxing later today


    Cu Selur
    Last edited by Selur; 21st Oct 2020 at 00:54.
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  7. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Selur View Post
    -> create a proper debug output and attach it.
    Sure thing. Thank you for investigating.
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  8. Your muxing call:
    Code:
    "C:\Program Files\Hybrid\64bit\mencoder.exe" -ovc copy "C:\Users\Scott\AppData\Local\Temp\usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv-step1-qtgmc faster-attempt 2-tff-for debugging_2020-10-21@00_50_08_9210_03.avi" -force-avi-aspect 1.5  -oac copy -audiofile "C:\Users\Scott\AppData\Local\Temp\iId_1_aid_1_2020-10-21@00_50_08_9210_01.wav" -ofps 60000/1001 -of lavf -o "\\10.0.0.135\AV Work\video capture raw\clients\dev\usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv-step1-qtgmc faster-attempt 2-tff-for debugging.avi"
    looks 'the same', my guess is that mencoder for some reason doesn't like '60000/1001'.
    -> will report back.

    -> Nope, the 60000/1001', even when using '-ofps 59.97', I end up with 600fps.
    -> issue seems to be that 'lavf' is used as muxer, using the internal 'avi'-muxer seems to work.

    Cu Selur
    Last edited by Selur; 21st Oct 2020 at 10:37.
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  9. Until I get the mencoder issue with FFvHuff fixed, you can enable 'Config->Containers->Avi Settings->Always use ffmpeg for muxing' this way Hybrid won't use mencoder for muxing the avi and the fps get's set properly:
    Code:
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 240 MiB
    Duration                                 : 9 s 810 ms
    Overall bit rate                         : 205 Mb/s
    Writing application                      : Lavf58.62.100
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : HuffYUV
    Format version                           : Version 3
    Codec ID                                 : FFVH
    Duration                                 : 9 s 810 ms
    Bit rate                                 : 205 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 720 pixels
    Height                                   : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 3:2
    Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:4:4
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 9.901
    Stream size                              : 240 MiB (100%)
    Cu Selur

    Ps.: will send you a link to a dev version for testing in a few minutes.
    Last edited by Selur; 21st Oct 2020 at 11:06.
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  10. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    Thank you, Selur. I'll check it out. All the best to you.
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  11. Since it's a dev version and I updated a bunch of scripts, let me know if you find bugs. (one I just stumbled upon is that LimitedSharpenFasterMOD needs to be renamed to LimitedSharpenFasterMOD4).
    So if you stumble upon a problem, let me know and I usually can fix it once I can reproduce it.

    Cu Selur
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  12. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    Success! Thank you so much.

    Here's in and out -- levels should be about the same, since it's huffyuv -> huffyuv, correct?
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv.avi_snapshot_00.09_[2020.10.21_15.04.35].jpg
Views:	10
Size:	68.6 KB
ID:	55585  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv-step1-qtgmc faster-dev build attempt-tff.avi_snapshot_00.0.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	56.5 KB
ID:	55586  

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  13. Without knowing the avisynth script used: My guess would be a pc vs. tv scale issue.
    Does this also happen of you when FFVideoSource is used?
    Looking at your previous debug output LWLibavVideoSource uses YUV444P8 (it should use RGB24) which is probably the cause of the issue.
    -> looking into it
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  14. will send you a new link for testing in ~15min.

    Cu Selur
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  15. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    When I go back to the default instead of LWLibavVideoSource, I get what you see below -- the stuttering returns. These color-space changes aren't something I'm used to knowing about or considering -- I've been spoiled by being able to throw anything on a NLE timeline and checking my scopes to see if it's legal. I believe my capture process in this case recorded in 0-255, so any step that tries to expand that further will clip. I'd love to knock it down to 16-235 but don't know which of the many many level-adjusters is appropriate, in large part because of unknown unknowns like one decoder using a color scheme that skews everything.

    I sincerely appreciate your enthusiastic bug-fixing. I rather enjoy what Hybrid has to offer, but my smarts are lagging behind my actions.
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  16. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    For interest's sake, the sample file run through Hybrid's Avisynth QTGMC (faster) and no other filters, one time with the LW..Source turned on, one with it off. Huffyuv in, Huffyuv out. On the default setting, QTGMC stutters and hiccups. But with the LibavVideoSource instead of FFmpegSource box checked, it's smooth. But, in both cases, due to stuff I don't yet understand, the codec-identical processing may have stretched and clipped the 0-255 video.

    I understand from some reading today that YUV formats don't typically have 0-255, so perhaps I'm meant to tell some phase of processing that, "Hey, this is PC range, and I know you're expecting TV range, so to prevent anyone getting cranky along the line, let's all agree on this..." Perhaps I'll take a shot at it, though my last attempt yielded some very strange looking colors that reminded me of the palettes from the days of CGA graphics on the PC.

    Or, if I can find the proc amp settings in my capture setup, recapture the tape with contrast reduced and perhaps in a codec my NLE can chew on while I continue learning the dark arts of How To Get Amazing Results By Knowing Color Theory.
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  17. "usb3-capture attempt 5-sample-huffyuv.avi" from post#6 is RGB, not YUV

    If that's your original capture, there are likely some issues with your capture process
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  18. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    Awesome. I'd love to find the issues and fix them. The full tape capture was to HuffYUV. I trimmed the sample in Virtualdub2 and chose to do a direct stream transfer to save the sample.

    Signal path was AG1970 -> TBC-1000 -> Startech USB3HD via S-Video -> USB 3.0 -> Virtualdub2 capture -> the resulting file -> the file shared here.

    Where would you recommend looking for where I went wrong in this?
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  19. The Huffyuv codec has a configuration dialog where you may have to disable 'Always suggest RGB format for output'
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  20. You're using FFVH variant (FFmpeg huffyuv lossless codec) bundled with vdub2, which outputs RGB; not the recommended Huffyuv which is separate install
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  21. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    Thanks, poisondeathray and Sharc. If I'm reading you right, the capture was okay, but because I used the huffy that came with vdub2, the output when played back delivers RGB instead of what the rest of the signal chain would ordinarily expect from that codec? Knowing this now, can I smarten the Hybrid chain up to the difference, or take advantage of its RGB-edness?
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  22. Color problem seems to be that the source isn't PC but TV scale,..
    with the dev version try doing this:
    1. enable "Filtering->Filtering->Overwrite output"
    2. enable "Filtering->Filtering->Overwrite output->Output Luminance"
    3. set "Filtering->Filtering->Overwrite output->Output Luminance" to "tv"
    4. enable "Filtering->Avisynth->Custom->ColorMatrix->enable"
    5. set "Filtering->Avisynth->Custom->ColorMatrix" to:
      Code:
      # luminance scale TV
      # color matrix Rec601

    Cu Selur
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  23. Originally Posted by bigass View Post
    Thanks, poisondeathray and Sharc. If I'm reading you right, the capture was okay, but because I used the huffy that came with vdub2, the output when played back delivers RGB instead of what the rest of the signal chain would ordinarily expect from that codec? Knowing this now, can I smarten the Hybrid chain up to the difference, or take advantage of its RGB-edness?
    The video you uploaded is RGB24. Not correct

    If you have video=>full processing mode set, FFVH only allows RGB24

    If you have video=>fast recompress set, it allows other pixel formats. When you have the video codec selected, push configure and set it it YUV 4:2:2
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  24. Multimedia storyteller bigass's Avatar
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    I'm grateful that there are so many options for so many situations. As I try to digest them -- and my sincere thanks to everyone, especially Selur -- I tried a different path this afternoon. I went to Vdub32 instead of Vdub2-64, threw up a histogram and tweaked the proc amp brightness and contrast to get the signal within the TV range instead of spilling out to the ends of the 0-255, and chose Lagarith as it was the only lossless codec that showed up at the time, and I was curious whether it would open in Vegas.

    I captured what's below.

    I skipped Hybrid this time and brought the clip into Vegas, made some adjustments, and spit out what's below. I think it looks decent, but I'm eager to hear why the Avisynth-and-company approach would turn out better. I haven't given up.
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