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  1. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    I am attempting to burn a DVD using AVStoDVD. The video being burned to disc was imported through a DV camcorder, so it is an interlaced, NTSC, 480i DV codec AVI, with PCM audio (it came in as left-channel-only, I had to use ffmpeg to replace the right audio channel with a duplicate of the left channel).

    However, as my source was a VHS-C tape, there is some overscan I wanted to crop out. I went into the Title Editing option and found the Crop selector, which has a very helpful GUI when inputting your crop values.

    However, after setting crop values, I noticed it added a ton of other commands. I expected it to add a resize command, that made sense, but it added a ton of other filters in too, like LeakKernelBob, even though I do not want my video to be deinterlaced at all before burning. It also brought in "AddBorders" which I am unfamiliar with, but I presume it adds black borders on my video, which I absolutely do not want. I assume this is some sort of correction to avoid stretching, but a 4-pixel stretch will hardly be noticeable and I'd rather it just stretch the cropped video to fill the whole 4:3 frame.

    At the end it even does a "SeparateFields" which I am again unfamiliar with, but if it is what I think it is - a re-interlacer - then what was the point of deinterlacing in the first place? Does the crop filter not work without prior deinterlacing, or is it that cropping out entire rows of pixels totally screws up the scanline order? This is strange, and seems to be putting a lot more load onto the computer than should be necessary for such a simple operation.
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    You cannot resize interlaced video as-is, it creates a mess.
    That is why the App de-interlaces, resizes then re-interlaces
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  3. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    You cannot resize interlaced video as-is, it creates a mess.
    That is why the App de-interlaces, resizes then re-interlaces
    It's good to know this is the reason, I feel less like the program is doing things without asking me now... But still, wouldn't deinterlacing and reinterlacing the video result in some amount of quality loss? Or is there something about the particular filter and parameters they are using that preserves as much video data as possible?
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    encode a section (using trim) and compare the crop and uncropped version to see how much quality loss you incur

    If you don't want to incur any loss, crop and addborders after the audiodub() and live with the
    pillarbox/lettertbox on the DVD
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  5. Originally Posted by Pendell View Post
    But still, wouldn't deinterlacing and reinterlacing the video result in some amount of quality loss?
    No, AvsToDVD knows what it's doing. It has to be resized after the crops, to make it DVD compliant. But it can't be just resized in a vertical direction without royally screwing up the interlacing. Therefore, it has to be bob deinterlaced, resized and then reinterlaced. Trust AvsToDVD.

    If you want to see 'quality loss', then try resizing it directly after the crop.
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  6. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    I was ready to just accept the interlacing thing, but now I'm extra confused. I imported another VHS-C tape, and after cropping that one to my desire, I get a much simpler script that doesn't even mention interlacing at all, despite this being captured the exact same way as the last video... I can only assume this has to do with the values I chose? They must align perfectly as to not cause any issues...
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    Perhaps the source is not marked as interlaced
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  8. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    Perhaps the source is not marked as interlaced
    Went to check this and now I'm just even more baffled. The plot thicken. Under the Video tab, it clearly shows "Interlaced Encoding" recognizing it as DV input and even correctly indicating BFF interlacing. However, on the actual project page, it shows it as "Progressive" even though this is not the case. Unchecking Auto Video and manually untciking and reticking the interlaced options does not change anything. This blatant contradiction within the program leads it to crop without first deinterlacing and later reinterlacing. But then, the resulting DVD file seems to play just fine in VLC, but throws a fit on my physical DVD player. It runs just fine, and still frames look great, but any movement causes jitter and weird artifacting along the upper half that looks more like a VHS source artifact than anything else, but can't be as it's not present in the source. I imagine this is a result of screwed up attempts at deinterlacing during movement.

    Both the first file and this one were imported the exact same way, and the only processing I've done on them was remapping the audio channels in ffmpeg so that it went from "stereo but all the sound is in the left channel" to "stereo where the mono track is duplicated to left and right" for compatibility purposes. The video stream for both files have not been tinkered with at all, and looking at both of them with MediaInfo produces the exact same info:

    Code:
    24.4 Mb/s, 720*480 (4:3), at 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS, DV (Sony) (NTSC) (DVCPRO)
    So now my problem has become that the program won't insert automatic interlace handling... Maybe it saw me complaining and got mad, hah.
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    Sometimes DV avi is not marked either progressive or interlaced, I think the program assumes
    progressive in this case.

    On the project page, right click the video
    edit source title info/edit scan type
    type "interlaced" - the script will be updated to reflect this

    Also may want to update the program to the latest 2.89 alpha.
    It's rock solid, many improvements and fixes
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  10. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    Sometimes DV avi is not marked either progressive or interlaced, I think the program assumes
    progressive in this case.

    On the project page, right click the video
    edit source title info/edit scan type
    type "interlaced" - the script will be updated to reflect this

    Also may want to update the program to the latest 2.89 alpha.
    It's rock solid, many improvements and fixes
    Thanks! That option was quite well hidden, now I've found it and am re-encoding my DVD as I type. So, to update, I just install the new version over the old one, or do I have to remove the old version? Will the alpha actually recognize AviSynth+ MT or will it keep giving me that false-positive error because of version number mismatch? lol, thanks for the loads of help.
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    Originally Posted by Pendell View Post
    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    Sometimes DV avi is not marked either progressive or interlaced, I think the program assumes
    progressive in this case.

    On the project page, right click the video
    edit source title info/edit scan type
    type "interlaced" - the script will be updated to reflect this

    Also may want to update the program to the latest 2.89 alpha.
    It's rock solid, many improvements and fixes
    Thanks! That option was quite well hidden, now I've found it and am re-encoding my DVD as I type. So, to update, I just install the new version over the old one, or do I have to remove the old version? Will the alpha actually recognize AviSynth+ MT or will it keep giving me that false-positive error because of version number mismatch? lol, thanks for the loads of help.
    Uninstall the old version first, preferences should be maintained in the registry.
    I'm not sure about recognizing Avisynth particular version,
    I'm running Avisynth+ r2772 no issues there
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  12. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    Uninstall the old version first, preferences should be maintained in the registry.
    I'm not sure about recognizing Avisynth particular version,
    I'm running Avisynth+ r2772 no issues there
    Thanks, I'll get right on that! Weird thing, once I manually changed to interlaced video, and checked to make sure the AviSynth script had corrected itself - it had - and recreated my DVD files, it said it finished "with errors." I checked the log file to find this (personal info replaced with x's):

    Code:
    <9/23/2020 3:46:22 PM>
    END VIDEO ENCODING OPERATIONS
    Video Source Filter: A2DSource - DSS2 mod (LAV Filters on)
    Created File: C:\Users\xxxxx\Videos\xxxxx.m2v (4224 MB)
    <>
    
    <9/23/2020 3:47:24 PM>
    Process halted during Title 1 VIDEO encoding operations.
    
    Error Message: 'Warning! Title 1 output Video duration (00:00:00) is shorter than expected duration (01:33:00).'
    
    Video errors warning message skipped.
    <>
    
    <9/23/2020 3:47:24 PM>
    START AUDIO ENCODING OPERATIONS (Track 1)
    Wavi+Aften Parameters: "C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\xxxxx_1.avs" - | "C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Aften\aften.exe" -b 192 -pad 0 -dynrng 5 -bwfilter 0 - "C:\Users\xxxxx\Videos\xxxxx_1.ac3"
    <>
    
    <9/23/2020 3:49:10 PM>
    END AUDIO ENCODING OPERATIONS (Track 1)
    Audio Source Filter: A2DSource - DirectShowSource
    Created File: C:\Users\xxxxx\Videos\xxxxx_1.ac3 (127.7 MB)
    <>
    
    <9/23/2020 3:50:12 PM>
    Process halted during Title 1 AUDIO (Track 1) encoding operations.
    
    Error Message: 'Warning! Title 1 Audio Track 1 output Audio duration (00:00:00) is shorter than expected duration (01:33:00).'
    
    Audio (Track 1) errors warning message skipped.
    <>
    
    <9/23/2020 3:50:12 PM>
    DVD CHAPTERS CREATION OPERATIONS
    Title 1 Input Chapters List: 8895 17886 26877 35868 44859 53850 62841 71832 80823 89814 98805 107796 116787 125778 134769 143760 152751 161742
    Title 1 Output Chapters List: 
    No Chapters List created for Title 1
    <>
    This had me panicking, thinking it just did all this work and spat out literally nothing by the end, but when I went to play the DVD files, well... my video was there. It was just... incorrect about there not being any video or audio data. However, because the chapter creation operation was equally fooled into thinking there was nothing there, the 5-minute chapter breaks are missing, which I consider pretty essential...

    I'll just delete the old project file entirely, uninstall 2.88, install 2.89, create a new project file, and see if it actually works this time lol. Will report back if it does.
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  13. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Good news, the update went smoothly, and once I created a new project, it properly created my DVD files with chapters and all!

    Unfortunately, I'm starting to see every clip I import show up as "Progressive" by default even though that is most certainly not the case. I have tracked this issue down as mostly likely being a result of me running an ffmpeg script on all my videos before I put them into AVStoDVD... But the script I run specifically says to copy the video stream, and only pefrorms operations on the audio stream. But I assume whatever encoder ffmpeg uses still discards with certain metadata like field order in the conversion... A shame, but probably an issue better brought up in its own thread on ffmpeg instead of DVD authoring...
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    You can open your files in mediainfo directly, they'll most likely confirm progressive
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  15. When you look at the frames with no filtering, do you see interlacing? If not then they're not interlaced. The fact that it's encoded as interlaced doesn't mean a whole lot. It could be, for example, progressive 29.97fps and still be encoded as interlaced. You could always post an untouched video sample, 10 seconds or so with steady movement.

    If what you say about ffmpeg is true (no filtering of the video), I doubt it's responsible.
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  16. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    You can open your files in mediainfo directly, they'll most likely confirm progressive
    MediaInfo does in fact confirm that for some reason, my file has become progressive... Why would ffmpeg do this? The script I use to dupe the mono into stereo is simply this:

    Code:
    ffmpeg -i input.avi -filter_complex "[0:a:0]channelmap=FL-FL|FL-FR:stereo[aout]" -map 0:V:0 -map "[aout]" -c:v copy -c:a pcm_s16le stereo-output.avi
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  17. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    When you look at the frames with no filtering, do you see interlacing? If not then they're not interlaced. The fact that it's encoded as interlaced doesn't mean a whole lot. It could be, for example, progressive 29.97fps and still be encoded as interlaced. You could always post an untouched video sample, 10 seconds or so with steady movement.

    If what you say about ffmpeg is true (no filtering of the video), I doubt it's responsible.
    Here's that 10-second clip. As you can see, it is indeed interlaced, but opening it in MediaInfo reveals things like "Scan Type: Progressive. Original Scan Type: Interlaced" in the metadata. Would ffmpeg or whatever encoder it uses insert these tags even if it had been told to just copy the input video stream? This is strange...
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  18. That progressive DV bug with stream copy has been reported on ffmpeg the tracker before
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  19. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    That progressive DV bug with stream copy has been reported on ffmpeg the tracker before
    So this is a known bug? Damn. Is there anything I can do to remedy it, or will I just have to live it. Presumably, it just inserts metadata saying the file is Progressive, without actually re-encoding it or anything. Is there any way I could remedy those metadata edits?
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  20. yes, known bug. The workaround is to add -field_order bb

    Code:
    ffmpeg -i 10sec.avi -c:v copy -c:a copy -field_order bb copy.avi
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  21. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    yes, known bug. The workaround is to add -field_order bb

    Code:
    ffmpeg -i 10sec.avi -c:v copy -c:a copy -field_order bb copy.avi
    Thanks! -field_order bb fixed it completely. There's still and oddity where mediainfo reports this on the frame rate:

    Code:
    Frame rate: 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Original frame rate: 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
    But I assume that's not actually a relevant difference, as the math still pretty much works out the same between those 2 frame rate fractions and I don't notice any frame issues, it's just different (probably more modern) math to get to the same conclusion I suppose. I think that just about solves all my problems then! I'll just make sure to insert the -field_order bb into my audio channel editing script from now on, to avoid the issue with AVStoDVD and any other program entirely! Thanks a ton for all the help guys, even after my initial issue spiraled off into like 3 others, haha. Isn't that just how working with video always turns out?
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  22. Thank you for the sample. Damn, "Scan Type: Progressive" and interlaced all to hell and back. I never would have guessed ffmpeg would be responsible for that and thanks to pdr for knowing about it and for providing the workaround.
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  23. Living Oxymoron Pendell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Thank you for the sample. Damn, "Scan Type: Progressive" and interlaced all to hell and back. I never would have guessed ffmpeg would be responsible for that and thanks to pdr for knowing about it and for providing the workaround.
    Thanks for your help as well! This forum is so full of knowledgeable people, without this place it probably would have taken me weeks to figure this out, and every moment would have been spent ripping my hair out of my head haha!
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