HDPVR2 VCR Recording washed out

[dyhrdmet]

I'm trying to record from my VCR (composite cables) through a Hauppauge HDPVR2 device to my PC (via USB), and the video comes very washed out (not sure if that's the correct term). It's unusable.

[Attachment 54966 - Click to enlarge].
Sometimes it comes out with almost the opposite coloring.

[Attachment 54968 - Click to enlarge]

When I watch/record from my cable box (component cables) on this PC, it comes up just fine.
When I connect the VCR (same composite cables) directly to my TV, it comes up just fine.
And when I connect my VCR to the HDPVR2 and connect the USB to my laptop, it comes up just fine. This is what it's supposed to look like.

[Attachment 54967 - Click to enlarge]

So it's likely something on this PC, but I'm not sure what. I've reinstalled the latest Hauppauge Capture software and drivers, removed (and re-detected) my AMD graphics drivers, and reinstalled the latest graphics drivers on this PC with no luck. I've disconnected and reconnected the wires on the different devices a few times. I've tried looking for anything with conflicting drivers and anything that might not be installed on my laptop that's on my PC. I don't want to completely reinstall Windows (yet).

PC specs:
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
AMD FX-88320E 8 core processor 3.20 GHz
16 GB RAM
AMD Radeon HD 6450 Graphics card
Hauppauge HD-PVR2 (Hauppauge Capture 38259)
Dell IN1910N Analog monitor
1366 x 768 resolution, 32-bit color, 60 Hz

Any thoughts?
(I should mention while I could record on the laptop, it's not very powerful, so I can't record for very long before facing freezes. The desktop can handle recording at the durations I need)

[johnmeyer]

I have that same Hauupague capture box (Hauppauge 1512 HD-PVR 2). You have to buy a different cable kit in order to capture composite video. As delivered, the device captures component video.

[edit]Here's the manual for the device which describes how to capture composite video using the optional cable.

https://www.hauppauge.com/pdfs/qi_hdpvr2.pdf

"It records from HDMI or Component Video (also called YPrPb). You can also record S-Video or composite video using and optional A/V cable (you can purchase this on the Hauppauge Webstore).

https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/webstore2/webstore_av_cable_din.html

[dyhrdmet]

Composite works with the same equipment (and wires) on my laptop. I did try changing the video cable used in this setup with another one and it didn't make a difference. Let me see if I can (inexpensively) change the adaptor. But it's a single adaptor for both component and composite video and the component video works just fine. It's designed as a single adaptor for both component and composite video.

https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_hdpvr2.html#diagram

[johnmeyer]

I see they are using the Blue video connector from the RGB trio, and plugging that directly into the composite output of your VCR. The manual does say, "This cable can also be used to bring composite video into your HD recorder. Plug your Yellow composite video cable into the Hauppauge AV cable's Blue connector and, in Hauppauge Capture, set Video In to Composite."

I assume that you made the required menu change.

I just ordered the dedicated cable and in a week will find out if that works.

[dyhrdmet]

The blue connector on the adaptor (from Hauppauge) is the video, and I have the video cable from the VCR connected to it. I did go through the different permutations of the 3 wires just in case there was something else. The video looks great when the HDPVR2 is connected to a different computer. The only setting that even shows anything from the VCR is video out from VCR to blue connector on the adaptor and setting Hauppauge Capture to composite video. This is the result.

[johnmeyer]

I was going to recommend that you post over at the AVSForum, but I see you just did that. I expect you'll get a better answer there, or may be able to find the answer by searching.

[dyhrdmet]

I've been searching for a couple of days and all I found were a few slightly related posts on different forums, on which I also posted, including AVSForum.

[DB83]

The usual diagnosis is to upload an actual sequence of video. Not the blue screen that can appear prior.


I might add that your 'fine' example does not look correct in my eyes. I would expect blue and not a variant of it.


Using the supplied cable could be a compromise. One would not typically expect a pure composite signal to be compatable with a component connector. But since it 'works' with your laptop then that argument does not stand. But if it works then, apart from the additional capability of s-video, why would Hauppauge bother with another cable ?


Even so it would be useful to upload a sample of an original capture from the laptop AND the same sequence from the PC.

[dyhrdmet]

Here is a short video recorded from the bad connection:
https://youtu.be/mjPX6tsxo7s

Here is a short video recorded from the good connection of the same 10 seconds:
https://youtu.be/_L0G7mzYIYQ

[dyhrdmet]

Using the supplied cable could be a compromise. One would not typically expect a pure composite signal to be compatable with a component connector. But since it 'works' with your laptop then that argument does not stand. But if it works then, apart from the additional capability of s-video, why would Hauppauge bother with another cable ?

You have to ask Hauppauge about the connector. They provide one that is used with both component and composite videos and the physical device only has the S-Video (which is what the connector uses) and HDMI inputs.

[DB83]

YT samples are not ideal since they re-encode whatever you upload.


Post proper video samples as attachments. But do not include any 'blue' screen.


And do check your cable/connector to ensure that you have not inadvertingly bent any pin.

[dyhrdmet]

YT samples are not ideal since they re-encode whatever you upload.


Post proper video samples as attachments. But do not include any 'blue' screen.


And do check your cable/connector to ensure that you have not inadvertingly bent any pin.

Is there something specific that you're looking for in the videos (which the screen captures from Hauppauge Capture didn't provide) and that isn't seen by the 'blue' screen? that itself should be enough to see that there's a problem.

I have checked the connector pins several times. That was one of the first (and obvious) things I checked. But why would a bent pin provide a good video on one computer but not another?

[DB83]

Well I would NEVER rely on 'screen captures' if that indeed is what you have provided.


The pin issue was just a suggestion but if you have eliminated that then so be it.

[dyhrdmet]

Well I would NEVER rely on 'screen captures' if that indeed is what you have provided.

Why would screen captures and YouTube videos never be reliable to illustrate the problem?

And where do I add an attachment for a video in here? The insert video button specifically wants a URL for YouTube or Facebook, etc.

[johnmeyer]

I don't think it really matters, in this case, what sort of video he provides because we're trying to troubleshoot a massive problem, not some minor noise.

It is quite obvious that his capture system is not getting the proper timing signals. This explains how the white gets inverted to black, while the color is still somewhat recognizable.

I just looked at a few websites, including the Tektronix site where they describe how to measure component and composite signals. From that site:

"Component signals need timing signals too. The synchronization is often combined with one of the components (such as the green channel)."

While Happauge says to use the blue cable, it would only take half a minute to try the other two.

However, since they are pretty clear about the blue cable, my bet is that the capture software is either not configured correctly or has been glitched. I hate advice like this, because it is usually not useful, but you could try uninstalling/reinstalling the capture software.

[dyhrdmet]

While Happauge says to use the blue cable, it would only take half a minute to try the other two.

However, since they are pretty clear about the blue cable, my bet is that the capture software is either not configured correctly or has been glitched. I hate advice like this, because it is usually not useful, but you could try uninstalling/reinstalling the capture software.

I did try the other permutations of wires (red into green for the video, green into blue, etc.) and blue into blue was the only one that worked (my VCR cables are actually blue in the yellow video port, green in the white audio port and red in the red audio port).

i've also uninstalled and reinstalled the software several times, including trying older versions just to be sure it isn't a software bug from Hauppauge.

[DB83]

So you appear to be using component cables as composite ones. I do not know if that would make the difference but composite would (nearly) always be yellow for video and red/black and white for audio. A cable like this can be picked up for 'pennies' so it is worth trying.

[dyhrdmet]

So you appear to be using component cables as composite ones. I do not know if that would make the difference but composite would (nearly) always be yellow for video and red/black and white for audio. A cable like this can be picked up for 'pennies' so it is worth trying.

I did try using a different cable, and got the same result, but it could also have been a component cable and not a composite cable. Let me look into that. I haven't had any problems with this specific set of cables before, but I don't even remember where they came from and I don't think I've tried to connect them to THIS computer before.

[DB83]

You have to ask Hauppauge about the connector. They provide one that is used with both component and composite videos and the physical device only has the S-Video (which is what the connector uses) and HDMI inputs.

There was an almost throw-away line in an earlier post. I have highlighted the relevant part.


The connector is NOT s-video. Multiple pins which take component/composite and audio signals do not make a connector s-video even if it looks like one. S-video does not carry audio.


So just that we are all on the same wavelength I trust you are not attempting to capture as s-video. You capture as composite. A while back there was a run of topics of guys attempting s-video over composite and the results told their own story.

[johnmeyer]

So just that we are all on the same wavelength I trust you are not attempting to capture as s-video. You capture as composite. A while back there was a run of topics of guys attempting s-video over composite and the results told their own story.

Anything along those lines would probably produce the type of video shown.

[dyhrdmet]

The connector is NOT s-video. Multiple pins which take component/composite and audio signals do not make a connector s-video even if it looks like one. S-video does not carry audio.


So just that we are all on the same wavelength I trust you are not attempting to capture as s-video. You capture as composite. A while back there was a run of topics of guys attempting s-video over composite and the results told their own story.

You're mostly correct - the connection is a universal multi-pin connection which supports S-Video (directly) or component/composite (via an adaptor). The software allows me to choose from those 3 connections (as well as HDMI, which is separate). The video out from the VCR is only via composite (yellow head) video with red & white audio, which is what I'm feeding into the Hauppauge-provided adaptor (per their instructions). I don't think the VCR supports true s-video out (I know at one point, I had something that did, along with a wire for it).

Could it be the type of wires I'm using? Is there a difference between "component" wires and "composite" wires? the wires I'm using for the VCR (and I don't know where I got them from) have 3 colored heads - red, green and blue, just like the 3 colored heads on component video. I use one for video and the other two for audio. But the signal is fine on my TV and it's fine on my laptop when routed through the Hauppauge device. It's only a problem on my other PC. I always though the actual wires were universal in terms of being used for component or composite since they're the same shape plugs.

[DB83]

You totally missed my Q. so I will ask again in another way.


How is your capture software configured for the input signal ?


Yes. It will allow you to select either composite or s-video. So what have you set it to ?


Only the alternative cable allows for s-video. And, yes, unless you have a S-VHS vcr s-video still would not work.


And where does this 'adapter' fit it ? I did not detect it in the page you linked to. I only saw 5 cable sockets which merge to a single plug to the Hauppauge. That, again, is NOT direct support for s-video.


I raised the matter of the cables as a possibility. I do think the Q. of s-video is now more relevant.

[dyhrdmet]

How is your capture software configured for the input signal?

I select HDMI, Component or S-Video, and it says it's not connected. I choose Composite, and I get a picture (the one I'm asking about). The hardware and software are able to correctly detect what type of input and only let me see video when I choose what it detects.

And where does this 'adapter' fit it ? I did not detect it in the page you linked to. I only saw 5 cable sockets which merge to a single plug to the Hauppauge. That, again, is NOT direct support for s-video.

Here is the connection diagram (from Hauppauge):
https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_hdpvr2.html#diagram
On here, they have different photos and diagrams so you can see (in general) what the hardware looks like. The picture at the bottom labeled "Composite video connections for VCR and camcorders" is the relevant one here. The others are for reference for the other types of connections.
The adaptor fits into the back (which is pictured in these diagrams) in the round plug. The image references a part number for "Hauppauge AV Cable" and has diagrams of the 5 heads on that connector. This link is the actual connector in their store with a good picture and description of it.
https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/webstore2/webstore_avcable-din_style.html?zoom_highlight=6021333

[DB83]

Well we appear to be talking of the same AV adapter. You previously stated that you plug your video cable in to one of the three video plugs.


But if your software will not allow you to proceed with a s-video selection then that eliminates the possibility. You merely clouded the issue with the remark about s-video.


Now I will return to the request for actual video samples. YT should not alter color but who knows. And I also want to eliminate the possibility that your PC video system is not set up correctly thus giving you a false impression.


If you do not wish to do that then so be it. I can not help any more.

[dyhrdmet]

Well we appear to be talking of the same AV adapter. You previously stated that you plug your video cable in to one of the three video plugs.


But if your software will not allow you to proceed with a s-video selection then that eliminates the possibility. You merely clouded the issue with the remark about s-video.


Now I will return to the request for actual video samples. YT should not alter color but who knows. And I also want to eliminate the possibility that your PC video system is not set up correctly thus giving you a false impression.


If you do not wish to do that then so be it. I can not help any more.

So the video samples - the screenshots were taken with the Hauppauge Capture software. They show the same video quality that I get when I simply watch through Hauppauge Capture, or take videos, or view those views on YouTube. There's a point where you need to trust your own eyes with the evidence provided to you.

My original thought was something on my PC that's not on my laptop that's causing this (as opposed to the hardware configuration of the wires and the Hauppauge box). I've been through video drivers and some software that might be in conflict and haven't found anything yet. I've tried older versions of the software as well as the latest and haven't seen a difference. So what could be eliminated (or tested) on the PC?

[DB83]

Ok. If it works on one system but not on the other then if you are using the same software with all identical settings then the non-working system is in conflict somewhere. It is therefore not a capture software/hardware issue.


BTW does both the laptop AND the PC use the same OS - I see Windoze 10 in your profile - and are both fully updated ?


But looking at the yt samples again, I would not describe the non-correct version as 'washed out' - the video signal is barely there hence my suspicion of the wrong signal being captured or the wrong combination of cables being used but what works for one you would expect to work for the other unless there is a fundamental difference OS-wise between the two. But I also wonder if there is some other hardware that is causing electrical interference on the cables when using the PC.


What you might also wish to check when you do a capture on the PC is to see what other programs are using system resources. Turn off anything, including the internet, that is not required at that time. If there is any other hardware utilizing usb - I am correct in assuming that is the final link between the capture device and the PC - then temporalily disconnect that as well. Even try a different usb connection if available.

[dyhrdmet]

BTW does both the laptop AND the PC use the same OS - I see Windoze 10 in your profile - and are both fully updated ?

Yes - Both are Windows 10 and I regularly keep them fully updated.

But looking at the yt samples again, I would not describe the non-correct version as 'washed out' - the video signal is barely there hence my suspicion of the wrong signal being captured or the wrong combination of cables being used but what works for one you would expect to work for the other unless there is a fundamental difference OS-wise between the two. But I also wonder if there is some other hardware that is causing electrical interference on the cables when using the PC.

I'm not sure if "washed out" is the right description for it. I thought it was just a brightness setting but it looks like it's a little more than that.
Electrical interference is an interesting thought. This PC has a wireless (with USB adapter) mouse and keyboard. I did swap the wireless mouse for a wired USB mouse to see if that fixed the issue. I don't have a wired keyboard to try eliminating that from the equation, but I could try simply removing the keyboard once Windows is up. I don't know if it matters at all, but in order to see if my laptop has the same problem, i moved it over by this PC (so it's about 4 feet away), but there could be some more localized interference in play at the PC.
I don't see this issue when connected to the cable box via component wires, but those are probably better wires and a better device than the composite wires and the VCR and can handle that interference better.

Is there anything else about the physical setup of this PC that might matter?

What you might also wish to check when you do a capture on the PC is to see what other programs are using system resources. Turn off anything, including the internet, that is not required at that time. If there is any other hardware utilizing usb - I am correct in assuming that is the final link between the capture device and the PC - then temporalily disconnect that as well. Even try a different usb connection if available.

For actual recordings, I usually put the PC into Airplane mode (to turn off the internet), limit what starts up to the essentials, and turn off notifications and background processing from my anti-virus. for these basic tests to see if there's still a problem, I don't do that. the only other hardware on the USB is the wireless receivers for the mouse and keyboard (separate ones). You are correct that USB is the connection between Hauppauge Capture and my computers. I have tried connecting it to all of the PC's USB ports with no luck.

[DB83]

I realise I am stating the obvious but have you checked that the capture software is set for the correct broadcast standard. ?


Swapping from the cable-box/component to the vcr/composite could have thrown something.

[dyhrdmet]

I realise I am stating the obvious but have you checked that the capture software is set for the correct broadcast standard. ?


Swapping from the cable-box/component to the vcr/composite could have thrown something.

Broadcast standard? like NTSC vs PAL? or HD video vs SD video?
I've uninstalled and reinstalled this so often than I'd be shocked if I incorrectly chose PAL every time. I'm not sure if it's even an option during install any longer. In the software itself, there's no way to choose/change it. The video resolution (and thus HD vs SD) comes from the source. But I'll walk through that once more documenting the options just to see.
I've also switched back from composite to component a couple times after this problem came up just to make sure that composite still worked.

[DB83]

One is dealing with analog sources. Broadcasting standard means NTSC (several variants exist), PAL or Secam.


Now I actually own a Hauppauge USB Live-2 and use the WinTV software if I want to do a quick 'n dirty capture. Now that software certainly has the means to select the broadcast source. I would be amazed if the software you use detects it automatically since with all the other capture software I have used over many years one has to set this manually.