Need help determining why DVD Encore thinks MPEG-2 is untranscoded

[moxiecat]

I've been using DVD Encore for many years and have developed many workarounds to get MPEG-2s that initially load as "untranscoded" to load as "transcoded." That includes using DVD Patcher to patch files to the compliant frame size, setting fake bit rates in Womble, and editing out tiny glitches that trigger the transcoder. I can usually figure out some trick to get DVD Encore to accept a file.

However, today I have hit a wall. I have 3 MPEG-2s that will not load in DVD Encore, no matter what I do. Nothing works. And I am at my wits' end. I have only succeeded in getting 1-second clips from the MPEGs to load as "transcoded." Any longer file (and we're talking TWO seconds) loads as "untranscoded."

I have tried looking at the files in G Spot and MediaInfo, and resaving the files via the Quick Stream fix in VideoReDo, but nothing has worked.

I'm big enough to admit that I've reached the end of my technical knowledge and need real help!

I am willing to pay a small fee to get someone to:
1) Take a look at one of these files, 2) Tell me what's wrong with it, and 3) How to get it to load as "transcoded" in DVD Encore.

To be clear, I don't need someone to take all three full-length video files and fix them - just analysis of a short file and a remedy that I can implement should be sufficient.

If asking for help with pay isn't permitted (I did look at the forum rules), please remove my post. I'm only mentioning a small fee because while I am grateful for the free help on this forum, I really need to get this done, and I'm hoping someone with Encore/MPEG-2 know-how may jump at my offer a little faster this way. This forum has so many pros on it, and I'd rather offer the task here first before trying a general freelancing site.

Thanks in advance.

Jen

[davexnet]

Post a text view mediainfo report of one of the problem files, or better still a file sample

[moxiecat]

Thank you. Hopefully a Dropbox link will work.

Here is the 2-second MPEG-2 that loads as "untranscoded." When I edit this down into just the first second, that loads in Encore successfully as "transcoded." The same phenomenon happened with a different stretch of video as well. If a longer file is needed, just let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pj3j2e8au4mhbom/test%20file.mpg?dl=0

[poisondeathray]

You have buffer underflow issues; it's not VBV compliant so it will be rejected by authoring software

Errors

Type,Time,Bits,
buffer underflow,"1,001",-52488,
buffer underflow,"1,034",-116498,
buffer underflow,"1,067",-27869,
buffer underflow,"1,101",-40615,
buffer underflow,"1,134",-130482,
buffer underflow,"1,167",-154044,
buffer underflow,"1,201",-200710,
buffer underflow,"1,234",-251025,
buffer underflow,"1,267",-287515,
buffer underflow,"1,301",-2136102,
buffer underflow,"1,334",-2157552,
buffer underflow,"1,368",-2147898,
buffer underflow,"1,401",-2131653,
buffer underflow,"1,434",-2139279,
buffer underflow,"1,468",-2160346,
buffer underflow,"1,501",-2307620,
buffer underflow,"1,534",-2359790,
buffer underflow,"1,568",-2428025,
buffer underflow,"1,601",-2504323,
buffer underflow,"1,634",-2603534,
buffer underflow,"1,668",-2610904,
buffer underflow,"1,701",-2654754,
buffer underflow,"1,735",-2732461,
buffer underflow,"1,768",-2777719,
buffer underflow,"1,801",-2796610,
buffer underflow,"1,835",-2863180,
buffer underflow,"1,868",-2921750,
buffer underflow,"1,901",-2980641,
buffer underflow,"1,935",-3032555,
buffer underflow,"1,968",-3073526,
buffer underflow,"2,002",-3231776,

[moxiecat]

Thanks so much! Is there any way to fix this?

FYI - these MPEGs were created by a Mini DVD camcorder. Always a recipe for problems, in my experience - just in case anyone was wondering if there was a way to redo the recording. No.

[poisondeathray]

There is no way to "fix" it unless you re-encode.

This section is requesting too much bitrate, too fast, leading to buffer issues. DVD-video does not have a large buffer - so you couldn't "fix" it by pre-pending a low bitrate section either (allowing the buffer to build prior to this section)

[moxiecat]

Thanks so much. So if I want it on DVD, it has to be re-encoded.

Poisondeathray, what program indicated the error was caused by buffer underflow?

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated.

[poisondeathray]

Poisondeathray, what program indicated the error was caused by buffer underflow?

This is a buffer analyzer from Elecard

Scenarios like DVD/BD follow a "VBV" model. "Instantaneous" bitrate measurements such as bitrate viewer, or similiar, are useless for this, because they don't take into the account the current state of the buffer (full, empty, something in between)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_buffering_verifier

The commonly used analogy is a "leaky bucket" model. It's really an input/output analysis, with the bucket in the middle. Data comes into the bucket at a given rate (read from the disc), data is requested to be displayed on the screen at a given rate drips out of the bucket (decoded, displayed on screen), and inbetween is the bucket which hold a buffer. DVD/BD have specific limits and requirements for the buffer, the input rate, and output rate . Too much/too little is "bad" and will get rejected

[davexnet]

Poisondeathray, what program indicated the error was caused by buffer underflow?

This is a buffer analyzer from Elecard

Scenarios like DVD/BD follow a "VBV" model. "Instantaneous" bitrate measurements such as bitrate viewer, or similiar, are useless for this, because they don't take into the account the current state of the buffer (full, empty, something in between)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_buffering_verifier

The commonly used analogy is a "leaky bucket" model. It's really an input/output analysis, with the bucket in the middle. Data comes into the bucket at a given rate (read from the disc), data is requested to be displayed on the screen at a given rate drips out of the bucket (decoded, displayed on screen), and inbetween is the bucket which hold a buffer. DVD/BD have specific limits and requirements for the buffer, the input rate, and output rate . Too much/too little is "bad" and will get rejected

Encore must be very strict, Muxman accepted that file

[moxiecat]

Encore IS strict but my impression is that that's actually a good thing, because it ensures that the resulting DVD will be widely compatible. And I've never had any trouble with users complaining about Encore-authored DVDs.

Nevertheless, thanks for the tip.

[poisondeathray]

Encore must be very strict, Muxman accepted that file

No, muxman tends to be more strict. Thanks for keeping me on my toes


Encore (and buffer analyzers) base their calculations on various assumptions. This file has a declared max bitrate of 8000kbps, but DVD should be closer to 9200 or so. The max bitrate is the amount that enters the buffer (max bitrate is the amount that is read and transferred from the disc) . If you patch the file to declare 9000kbps or so in restream or similar, it will "pass" both the analyzer and encore

[davexnet]

Encore must be very strict, Muxman accepted that file

No, muxman tends to be more strict. Thanks for keeping me on my toes


Encore (and buffer analyzers) base their calculations on various assumptions. This file has a declared max bitrate of 8000kbps, but DVD should be closer to 9200 or so. The max bitrate is the amount that enters the buffer (max bitrate is the amount that is read and transferred from the disc) . If you patch the file to declare 9000kbps or so in restream or similar, it will "pass" both the analyzer and encore

Thanks PDR, anytime !
Great analysis. So this is a problem because the actual bit rate ("Bit Rate" in Mediainfo) is higher than "maximum bit rate".
I don't think I've ever seen that before

[moxiecat]

OK, so now I'm a little confused. PDR, you said there was no way to fix the file aside from re-encoding. But then you said:

If you patch the file to declare 9000kbps or so in restream or similar, it will "pass" both the analyzer and encore

I used DVD Patcher to set a bitrate of 9000 kbps, but the file still doesn't load in Encore. What am I missing?

[poisondeathray]

OK, so now I'm a little confused. PDR, you said there was no way to fix the file aside from re-encoding. But then you said:

If you patch the file to declare 9000kbps or so in restream or similar, it will "pass" both the analyzer and encore

I used DVD Patcher to set a bitrate of 9000 kbps, but the file still doesn't load in Encore. What am I missing?

I was wrong. The earlier calculations were "off" because a 8000kbps assumption was used . But DVD-video can technically use 9800 for video stream (I tend to use 9000 to be "safe")

Demux to elementary stream (m2v) and use restream. You should be using elementary streams anyways when authoring

[moxiecat]

PDR, bowing down to you. Setting 9800 in Restream WORKS. At least for the 2 second test file, and just bringing the resaved MPV into Encore.

I will do some muxing and work on a full-length file, and report back.

THANK YOU!

[poisondeathray]

dvd patcher works too.

Make sure patch entire file is selected, not just first header. Also bitrate is 9000000 because it's expressed in bit/s

[moxiecat]

Well, I couldn't make it work in DVD Patcher (even with the bit/s expressed correctly and "entire file" selected). But I was able to demux one of the original MPEG-2s in Womble MPEG DVD Wizard, reset the bitrate for the MPV in Restream, remux the two streams together, and successfully load the resulting MPEG-2 into Encore as "transcoded."

The only problem I have is when I demux the original MPEG-2, the MPV is 5 seconds shorter than the AC3 file. Obviously there's some error going on somewhere, but I'll have to figure that out. At least I'm on the right track (I think!)

Thanks again for your help!

[moxiecat]

Sorry, double post