VideoHelp Forum

Try DVDFab and copy Ultra HD Blu-rays and DVDs! Or rip iTunes movies and music! Download free trial !
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33
Thread
  1. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    I recently bought an Avermedia Live Gamer 4k, and i also got an HDFury Vertex≤ after discovering my monitor completely blocks all capturing. I've been unable to get this damn thing to work right and I can't figure out why.

    What I'm trying to do is capture in 4k60 or 4k30 with 5.1, which the LG4k is capable of. My system specs are in my sig, but suffice it to say they're plenty adequate for this task. The card is in the middle x16 slot on my board, forcing my GPU into x8 (ok with me). Vertex ≤ is set to pass through the EDiD info from the source.

    I originally had it configured as such:
    2060 KO > vertex≤ > Split 1: monitor / Split 2: LG4k

    Configured like this, it well not record more than 2 seconds. It keeps telling me my storage device is too slow, but I'm recording to SSD. I even tried recording to a RAMDisk that I have setup for Plex transcoding, but that made no difference (RAMDisk benchmarks 2x faster than Samsung 970 Pro). So clearly it's not actually the storage speed that's the issue here. Also, all the audio just records as screeching sound, whether it's 5.1 or stereo. I've tried the RECentral and OBS.

    So today i changed up the configuration to:
    Intel integrated graphics > LG4k

    This got me more than 2 seconds of recording, but the resulting video is is very jumpy. It also won't record in 5.1, but stereo works in obs. I get no audio in RECentral.

    Im so confused here. My system isn't taxed at all, so it shouldn't be a hardware issue. What could I be missing?

    ________________
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Last edited by Big Ry; 24th Aug 2020 at 00:09. Reason: Add sig
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    is the SSD an external drive or internal ?? the SSD needs to be formatted to Game recording and be an external SSD - https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/asin/B07DHSZC4K/ref=ask_atf_aqp_dp
    Quote Quote  
  3. This capture card will not work. Use another (better) one. And it will not hurt to increase the amount of memory.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    is the SSD an external drive or internal ?? the SSD needs to be formatted to Game recording and be an external SSD - https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/asin/B07DHSZC4K/ref=ask_atf_aqp_dp
    I think maybe you're confusing this with an external card. It would make absolutely zero sense to be required to use an external SSD on a pcie capture card. Even having to format in FAT makes no sense with this type of card. I assume that's what you meant by "formatted to game recording". There's only so many ways to format a drive in windows and "game recording" is definitely not an option available.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by LZAA View Post
    This capture card will not work. Use another (better) one. And it will not hurt to increase the amount of memory.
    I can't tell if you're trolling. This is the best capture card on the market for under $1k. What "better" card is there? And it does work, because I've seen a million reviews on it.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  6. We see how it works for you. But it seemed to me that this kind of work does not suit you.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by LZAA View Post
    We see how it works for you. But it seemed to me that this kind of work does not suit you.
    Wow, does this douchebag attitude permeate throughout this entire forum, or is it just you that's a complete douche? I came on asking a technical question, and you come back with the most ignorant ill-conceived response imaginable. Just admit you don't know anything about the hardware instead of being a dick for no reason.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    @Big Ry Are you compressing the video during capture or trying to capture it uncompressed?
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    @Big Ry Are you compressing the video during capture or trying to capture it uncompressed?
    I'm compressing during capture. In RECentral I don't even see an option to capture uncompressed. My only choices are h264 & h265, both of which I've tried with similar results. In OBS I also tried h264. If OBS allows uncompressed capture, i did not try that.

    Don't remember if i mentioned this, but I'm on the latest driver and latest software. Is there by chance something that needs to be configured in the bios? I looked around but didn't see any related settings.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    @Big Ry Are you compressing the video during capture or trying to capture it uncompressed?
    I'm compressing during capture. In RECentral I don't even see an option to capture uncompressed. My only choices are h264 & h265, both of which I've tried with similar results. In OBS I also tried h264. If OBS allows uncompressed capture, i did not try that.

    Don't remember if i mentioned this, but I'm on the latest driver and latest software. Is there by chance something that needs to be configured in the bios? I looked around but didn't see any related settings.
    I don't have any experience with the Live Gamer 4K or RECentral and I don't know if any changes in the BIOS would make a difference. I read another recent post saying that RECentral can capture 5.1 audio but I don't know exactly how it is implemented or what type of 5.1 channel audio you are trying to capture for that matter.

    However, based on the little that I do know about UHD video capture, capturing it at 60fps, plus 5.1 channel audio is a rather challenging task even now. Trying to capture it uncompressed is like trying to drink from a firehose. I haven't run the numbers but I am not confident that a SATA 3.0 SSD could keep up with capturing uncompressed UHD video.

    I'm not sure what kind of CPU would be needed at a minimum to compress UHD resolution video delivered at 60fps to H.264 or H.265 in real time. I suspect that your chances of succeeding with that resolution and frame rate would be better using a recent GPU for hardware encoding i.e. NVENC. From what I found in an Internet search, RECentral does support using NVENC. Since you have an NVIDIA card, are you using it for encoding your captures or are you using the CPU?
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  11. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    If what you say is true about 4k w/5.1, then there has been a lot of misleading advertising here. I get it that 5.1 capture is unusual, so that would make more sense for being a challenge. But this thing is spec'd to capture HDR 4k60 and 1080p240...that's some serious data throughput. I'm not even looking to push quite that much. Yet I can't seem to capture anything smoothly at all, 4k60, 4k30, 1080p60, etc. I was trying multiple sources, including youtube videos in 4k 5.1, which aren't really 4k anyway. Tried a firestick. Tried desktop. Nothing seems to work.

    The thing is, Ive seen a few different reviews on this thing indicating that it captures flawless 4k60. Ive never seen a single complaint about it. EposVox on youtube is probably the biggest promoter of AverMedia's capture cards, and he has had basically zero issues with the card. He also tested it against dozens of others on the market, and its latency was near the lowest.

    I'm almost certain the LG4k is capable of on-board video compression. I don't exactly know how you toggle this though. In the RECentral settings, I can chose from NVIDIA or CPU, which I have always chosen NVIDIA because my CPU's QSV is dedicated to 24/7 surveillance recording. So I'm def running on the GPU, but I can't tell if its compressing on the GPU or on the capture card. Frankly, I don't really care where it does it. My system isn't getting taxed too bad when running, so it shouldn't matter either way. I guess it would be ideal to pass this task off to the capture card, but I need to get this working first.

    I meet all the minimum specs for HDR 4k60 capture, according to AverMedia. My i7-8700 meets or exceeds the i5-6XXX minimum. My 2060KO is the new version of the 1060 (minimum spec for GPU). The 2060KO was just released this year or Q4 2019 and is fully-featured for encoding/decoding NVENC (see https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix). Its also on the TU104 die (same at the 2080), so it should be plenty good at encoding. Minimum system RAM is 8GB dual channel, and I have at least 10GB free during capture and its dual channel.

    I can't imagine my storage is the issue either. As I mentioned previously, I tried both SATA SSD as well as a RAMDisk. My SSD is a Samsung 860 Evo, which is pretty fast and I have it on the board not on my HBA. But assuming thats still insufficient like you said, the RAMDisk is stupid fast. This is the CDM bench of the RAMDisk...2-3x faster than my Samsung 970 Pro NVMe, which is currently the fastest consumer drive on the market.

    Image
    [Attachment 54637 - Click to enlarge]


    I have 4x8GB RAM (dual), but 8GB is dedicated to this RAM disk and 4GB is dedicated to a Win10 VM. So I really only have 20GB available. But again, I'm not hitting the limit when recording. The only issue I could see is maybe the capture card is not liking the fact that I have a RAMDisk? Dual channel ram is a requirement according to AverMedia, and I'm not exactly sure what the RAMDisk does to the dual channel aspect of the RAM.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    I'm almost certain the LG4k is capable of on-board video compression. I don't exactly know how you toggle this though. In the RECentral settings, I can chose from NVIDIA or CPU, which I have always chosen NVIDIA because my CPU's QSV is dedicated to 24/7 surveillance recording. So I'm def running on the GPU, but I can't tell if its compressing on the GPU or on the capture card. Frankly, I don't really care where it does it. My system isn't getting taxed too bad when running, so it shouldn't matter either way. I guess it would be ideal to pass this task off to the capture card, but I need to get this working first.
    I think it is somewhat important to know if a capture device encodes using an onboard chip or encodes using the PC's CPU or its GPU to understand its limitations since capture devices that encode using an onboard chip typically provide fewer encoding options. Based on some reviews that I found, I'm pretty sure that the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4K (GC573) depends on the PC to perform encoding even if the card's documentation doesn't say so specifically.

    A review comparing the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4k and the Elgato 4k60 Pro says the following: "Neither capture card does any encoding locally ó instead, they use your PCís CPU or GPU depending on which option you select. That is why you need a recent CPU from Intel or AMD and the latest-generation graphics card from Nvidia or AMD Radeon." See: https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/27/avermedia-live-gamer-4k-vs-elgato-4k60-pro-the-4k-c...card-showdown/

    Also, according to a hexus.net review, RECentral is capable of encoding 4K 60fps HDR input to 4K 60fps H.265 with HDR "using the GPU's HEVC (H.265) capability for efficient-size files." See https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/peripherals/121787-avermedia-live-gamer-4k-gc573/?key=1535960990

    Using the GPU for NVENC encoding to produce 4K 60fps H.265 with HDR requires the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4K to provide uncompressed video to the PC. If the LG4K encoded video input to H.264 using an on-board chip then it would output an H.264 stream to the PC. The problem with simply converting from H.264 to H.265 is that an H.264 stream can't include HDR10, so it couldn't be converted to H.265 with HDR10.

    I'm still looking for answers to your other concerns.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    I'm almost certain the LG4k is capable of on-board video compression. I don't exactly know how you toggle this though. In the RECentral settings, I can chose from NVIDIA or CPU, which I have always chosen NVIDIA because my CPU's QSV is dedicated to 24/7 surveillance recording. So I'm def running on the GPU, but I can't tell if its compressing on the GPU or on the capture card. Frankly, I don't really care where it does it. My system isn't getting taxed too bad when running, so it shouldn't matter either way. I guess it would be ideal to pass this task off to the capture card, but I need to get this working first.
    I think it is somewhat important to know if a capture device encodes using an onboard chip or encodes using the PC's CPU or its GPU to understand its limitations since capture devices that encode using an onboard chip typically provide fewer encoding options. Based on some reviews that I found, I'm pretty sure that the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4K (GC573) depends on the PC to perform encoding even if the card's documentation doesn't say so specifically.

    A review comparing the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4k and the Elgato 4k60 Pro says the following: "Neither capture card does any encoding locally ó instead, they use your PCís CPU or GPU depending on which option you select. That is why you need a recent CPU from Intel or AMD and the latest-generation graphics card from Nvidia or AMD Radeon." See: https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/27/avermedia-live-gamer-4k-vs-elgato-4k60-pro-the-4k-c...card-showdown/

    Also, according to a hexus.net review, RECentral is capable of encoding 4K 60fps HDR input to 4K 60fps H.265 with HDR "using the GPU's HEVC (H.265) capability for efficient-size files." See https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/peripherals/121787-avermedia-live-gamer-4k-gc573/?key=1535960990

    Using the GPU for NVENC encoding to produce 4K 60fps H.265 with HDR requires the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4K to provide uncompressed video to the PC. If the LG4K encoded video input to H.264 using an on-board chip then it would output an H.264 stream to the PC. The problem with simply converting from H.264 to H.265 is that an H.264 stream can't include HDR10, so it couldn't be converted to H.265 with HDR10.

    I'm still looking for answers to your other concerns.
    Perhaps you're right about the on board encoding then. I'll contact Avermedia about it to confirm. I may be mixing it up with another card, as I was looking at a few different ones. It's not really a feature that was on my radar though, so I wasn't overly focused on whether or not this card had it.

    Assuming the card does not have on board encoding, I still should be able to capture the full uncompressed video on the card and have my GPU or CPU process it. I meet all the hardware requirements for 4k60 HDR capture. My GPU is brand new and can handle all the encoding tasks of this capture card and thensome (it can even handle 8k). My CPU isn't brand new, but it's still plenty new. It's an i7 with 6 cores, 12 threads, and qsv. So even if my system needs to do all the processing, it should still be able to handle the task with ease which is why I'm so confused about the performance I'm seeing. I've seen reviews with people running way crappier equipment and having no problems simultaneously streaming, capturing, and passing through the feed.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    I found more evidence that the LG4K doesn't encode using an onboard chip. I watched one of EposVox's YouTube videos about the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4k, where he mentions that it is a DirectShow device and works with Virtualdub and AmarecTV. I have used both of those apps. They only work with capture devices that can send uncompressed video to the PC to which they are connected. They didn't work with my capture devices that relied on an on-board chip to encode.

    Regarding 5.1 audio capture, I found out that the LG4K can't pass through or record compressed audio, i.e. AC3, DTS, AAC, or uncompressed audo other than LPCM. Apparently, the Live Gamer 4K GC573 can pass-through 5.1 channel LPCM audio or 7.1 channel LPCM audio but according to the recent Reddit forum post below, it seems that it can only record 2 of those channels using RECentral, assuming the right drivers are installed. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/AverMedia/comments/g8s55b/is_it_possible_to_record_51_or_71_dddtspcm_audio/

    Re-reading your posts, are you trying to record the video output of the same PC that you are using to record? Is there another device that you can use as a video and audio source for the LG4K to record as a test?
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I found more evidence that the LG4K doesn't encode using an onboard chip. I watched one of EposVox's YouTube videos about the AVerMedia Live Gamer 4k, where he mentions that it is a DirectShow device and works with Virtualdub and AmarecTV. I have used both of those apps. They only work with capture devices that can send uncompressed video to the PC to which they are connected. They didn't work with my capture devices that relied on an on-board chip to encode.

    Regarding 5.1 audio capture, I found out that the LG4K can't pass through or record compressed audio, i.e. AC3, DTS, AAC, or uncompressed audo other than LPCM. Apparently, the Live Gamer 4K GC573 can pass-through 5.1 channel LPCM audio or 7.1 channel LPCM audio but according to the recent Reddit forum post below, it seems that it can only record 2 of those channels using RECentral, assuming the right drivers are installed. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/AverMedia/comments/g8s55b/is_it_possible_to_record_51_or_71_dddtspcm_audio/

    Re-reading your posts, are you trying to record the video output of the same PC that you are using to record? Is there another device that you can use as a video and audio source for the LG4K to record as a test?
    That's fine if the card doesn't compress video on-board. I'm OK with handling that task on the GPU. But there's a difference between the features offered from 3rd party software and the features offered by Avermedia's RECentral recording software. Some features are exclusively accessible through their own software. On-board compression may be one of those features, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have the chips at all.

    I do not know what format the card captures audio in or if it is compressed or not. I am certain it can capture 5.1ch audio though. I've already confirmed this with Avermedia, plus there's a 5.1 audio option in RECentral so clearly its possible. And to be clear, this is for capture, not simply pass-through. Its the #1 reason I bought this specific card, so I made sure it could capture 5.1 before buying it. The card can pass 5.1 and 7.1, but it can only capture in 5.1. When the card was first released it could only capture in stereo, but a later firmware update enabled 5.1 capture. The documentation and retail box still only indicate that the card passes 5.1, so that stuff is out of date. Thats why there seems to be conflicting info online.

    I have tried recording my screen from the same PC and I have tried recording from a Firestick 4k...same result with each. I could plug my laptop in as a source, but I don't think that's going to net any different results. My laptop is only 1600x900 anyway.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    I email Avermedia about the on-board encoding and also submitted a ticket about all these recording issues I'm having. We'll see what they say.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    I have tried recording my screen from the same PC and I have tried recording from a Firestick 4k...same result with each. I could plug my laptop in as a source, but I don't think that's going to net any different results. My laptop is only 1600x900 anyway.
    The HDFury Vertex2 can change the HDCP 2.2 applied to the signal to an older HDCP version but it isn't supposed to remove HDCP entirely using the official firmware. I realize that it's a long shot that you haven't taken HDCP into account but HDCP is the only thing I can think of would prevent recording with the LG4K although I'd expect a different error message than one indicating that your storage device is too slow.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 25th Aug 2020 at 23:12.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  18. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    The HDFury does strip all HDCP. They just tell you it down-converts it, but in reality it strips it. I'm on no special firmware with it either, and it removes it for me.

    I have tried capturing without the HDFury but I got the same result. I can capture directly from the integrated GPU without HDCP concerns, so I tried that the other day but had no luck either. It worked better than through the NVIDIA & Vertex2, but it still skipped a lot. I'm wondering if I just got a faulty card...
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    The official response from Avermedia is that the card does NOT have on-board encoding. The response to the help ticket was less helpful, but I'm going to keep trying on that.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The HDFury Vertex2 can change the HDCP 2.2 applied to the signal to an older HDCP version but it isn't supposed to remove HDCP entirely using the official firmware. I realize that it's a long shot that you haven't taken HDCP into account but HDCP is the only thing I can think of would prevent recording with the LG4K although I'd expect a different error message than one indicating that your storage device is too slow.
    So I've now spoken with both Avermedia and HDFury about this (btw, HDFury is a scumbag company if you didn't already know). Neither have a solution, and both blame each other...of course.

    However, last night I tried a new config... Take the monitor out of the equation. So it goes GPU>HDFury>LG4k. That's it; no pass-through and no splitting. It means I have some weird mystery monitor off to the right of my main display, but it gets me closer to my end goal.

    Now i have smooth video and a "5.1" indicator in the software (indicating it's receiving a 5.1 signal). The issue I'm still having is the resulting audio recording isn't right. I've tried 6-7 different sources, from my personal mkvs, to netflix, to youtube dolby test audio.

    One of 4 things happens:
    1) I get zero audio
    2) I get stereo
    3) I get 5.1, but its indistinguishable noise
    4) i get 5.1, but its echoed and hallway-sounding

    I'm assuming this might have something to do with the proprietary nature of dolby, dts, etc. The LG4k can capture 5.1, but nowhere does it say what type of signal. The HDFury can only pass audio signals, so it's feeding the LG4k whatever the source has. The HD fury can also strip out full audio (up to atmos) and send it on a dedicated hdmi out.
    This leads me to the idea that maybe I can find a device to capture the stripped audio. And then i can either sync it to the video capture or combine in post.

    Does this sound plausible? Do you know of any such device for doing this audio capture? I only have x1 slots left and a few USB ports.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    If I recall correctly, the RECentral software uses AAC to record captured audio. What kind of 5.1 audio is being sent to the LG4K via HDMI? LPCM, AC3, or something else? Is there any indication that the RECentral software decodes compressed audio such as AC3 (which would convert it to LPCM audio) before compressing it again using AAC. If not, then the recording would just be digital noise.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    If I recall correctly, the RECentral software uses AAC to record captured audio. What kind of 5.1 audio is being sent to the LG4K via HDMI? LPCM, AC3, or something else? Is there any indication that the RECentral software decodes compressed audio such as AC3 (which would convert it to LPCM audio) before compressing it again using AAC. If not, then the recording would just be digital noise.
    REC records in MP4 container, so my understanding as well is that it likely is AAC audio. I'm not really sure how to confirm this, as the file details are blank. I guess I could open a file in a conversion program, that ought to tell me.

    What sort of indication would I look for in REC to see if it decodes compressed audio? I'm pretty new to all this, so I don't know what to look for. But the simple fact that 5.1 recording is an option at all leads me to believe it must have some functionality! The card is marketed to streamers, largely game streamers, not sure if that clues you in at all to the audio formats to expect.

    The types of 5.1 source signals I plan to record will vary. It could be Dolby, DTS, LPCM, AC3, etc. It depends on the source, and the source varies. I don't necessarily have a specific source in mind. When I tested with Netflix, that was supposedly Dolby 5.1. I believe that one recorded as indistinguishable noise in 5.1. The "Dolby 5.1 audio test" on youtube was also supposed to be Dolby 5.1, but that one came out as stereo. Though Ive heard anecdotal reports that youtube always converts all audio to stereo. The handful of MKVs I tested from my server ranged from 7.1 TrueHD to 5.1 Dolby to 5.1 DTS-HD.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  23. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    I am not sure if this is any help or not. But over a year ago i spoke with avermedia before i got c985 card to see if it does ac3 5.1 and they told me there cards will never do ac3 5.1 audio on a capture due to the license cost for Dolby digital. if you get ac3 5.1. Your capture will always be aac 2 channel or what you choose as audio. I own a live game hd 2. Its same card like yours but mine only does 1080p is all i need. If avermedia added ac3 5.1 to any of there cards the card prices would go up. This is what they told me. To keep prices down they use aac audio.
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Wizard23 View Post
    I am not sure if this is any help or not. But over a year ago i spoke with avermedia before i got c985 card to see if it does ac3 5.1 and they told me there cards will never do ac3 5.1 audio on a capture due to the license cost for Dolby digital. if you get ac3 5.1. Your capture will always be aac 2 channel or what you choose as audio. I own a live game hd 2. Its same card like yours but mine only does 1080p is all i need. If avermedia added ac3 5.1 to any of there cards the card prices would go up. This is what they told me. To keep prices down they use aac audio.
    The LG4k does capture 5.1 now, but it didn't when it first came out. It was released as a feature in a later firmware update. None of the documentation makes any mention of it though, and I got my card straight from AverMedia about a month ago after it was backordered. As to the specific format captured, that is what I am trying to determine now (any utilities out there that can read audio signals and give you all the data?). RECentral has audio channel options for 2.0 and 5.1 in the card config and a little "5.1" indicator that pops up when you have a 5.1 source, so its even integrated into the software to some degree. Though the 5.1 capture is only available in REC; you cannot get it in OBS. And as far as my understanding of it goes, only the LG4k can capture 5.1, no other AverMedia card can do it.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    REC records in MP4 container, so my understanding as well is that it likely is AAC audio. I'm not really sure how to confirm this, as the file details are blank. I guess I could open a file in a conversion program, that ought to tell me.
    MediaInfo will usually disclose the relevant details about an A/V file using the Text view. If you have VLC media player installed, selecting Tools->Codec Information and then clicking the Codec tab can also give you information about media files, although I tend to prefer MediaInfo. I think that in addition to AAC, the MP4 container currently allows using a few other types of audio, including AC3, but they are less common and not as well supported.

    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    What sort of indication would I look for in REC to see if it decodes compressed audio? I'm pretty new to all this, so I don't know what to look for. But the simple fact that 5.1 recording is an option at all leads me to believe it must have some functionality! The card is marketed to streamers, largely game streamers, not sure if that clues you in at all to the audio formats to expect.
    What to look for? Maybe a menu to select the audio decoder in the settings? Maybe something in the documentation that states what types of audio input can be recorded?

    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    The types of 5.1 source signals I plan to record will vary. It could be Dolby, DTS, LPCM, AC3, etc. It depends on the source, and the source varies. I don't necessarily have a specific source in mind. When I tested with Netflix, that was supposedly Dolby 5.1. I believe that one recorded as indistinguishable noise in 5.1. The "Dolby 5.1 audio test" on youtube was also supposed to be Dolby 5.1, but that one came out as stereo. Though Ive heard anecdotal reports that youtube always converts all audio to stereo. The handful of MKVs I tested from my server ranged from 7.1 TrueHD to 5.1 Dolby to 5.1 DTS-HD.
    AVerMedia would probably need to pay some kind of licensing fee for every one of the above types audio input that it records (with the possible exceptionof LPCM), so I think that there have to be some limitations on the types of audio input allowed.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  26. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    MediaInfo will usually disclose the relevant details about an A/V file using the Text view. If you have VLC media player installed, selecting Tools->Codec Information and then clicking the Codec tab can also give you information about media files, although I tend to prefer MediaInfo. I think that in addition to AAC, the MP4 container currently allows using a few other types of audio, including AC3, but they are less common and not as well supported.
    Thanks for the recommendation on software. I'm about to head home from work, so I'll check that out when I get home. And I completely forgot about that feature in VLC. VLC is my default media player, so I'll check that info as well.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    What to look for? Maybe a menu to select the audio decoder in the settings? Maybe something in the documentation that states what types of audio input can be recorded?
    Nah, there's none of that in the software. Its basically the most basic of settings in RECentral. You can pick 2.0/5.1 and audio bitrate, and I think thats about it. I read through the manual and saw no mention of audio formats. The manual doesn't even mention 5.1 at all. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. Clearly not ready for prime time.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    AVerMedia would probably need to pay some kind of licensing fee for every one of the above types audio input that it records (with the possible exceptionof LPCM), so I think that there have to be some limitations on the types of audio input allowed.
    Got it. So does anything ever get recorded in LPCM, or is this 5.1 capture feature basically useless? lol
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  27. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    Yup, looks like AAC is being captured...

    Image
    [Attachment 54723 - Click to enlarge]


    And VLC's info...

    Image
    [Attachment 54724 - Click to enlarge]
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    So I just found an MP4 movie on my server that has its audio recorded in AAC LC, just like the LG4k. I tested it and got the 5.1 echo hallway like Ive gotten with other devices. I only have the LG4k audio being captured, so I dont know why its echoing and adding this hallway effect to the audio. Otherwise, it was fine. Any ideas?
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  
  29. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Big Ry View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    AVerMedia would probably need to pay some kind of licensing fee for every one of the above types audio input that it records (with the possible exceptionof LPCM), so I think that there have to be some limitations on the types of audio input allowed.
    Got it. So does anything ever get recorded in LPCM, or is this 5.1 capture feature basically useless? lol
    I don't think the feature as implemented in the LG4K would be very useful to most of those who buy this card.

    LPCM audio with up to 8 channels is allowed for DVD and LPCM audio with up to 9 channels (Max 27.648Mbit/s) is allowed for Blu-ray, but I think that anything other than stereo LPCM is uncommon for video discs because of total bitrate constraints. Some audio receivers can decode other audio formats to provide LPCM for output but I don't know how many channels are typically allowed since I don't have an audio receiver. Cable and satellite boxes can decode 5.1 channel AC3 audio but usually output it as 2-channel LPCM.

    In this forum I've read about some ways to record 5.1 channel AC3 as 5.1 channel AC3 using certain sound cards or other capture devices but it can be tricky.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
    Quote Quote  
  30. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Baltimore
    Search Comp PM
    I just tested stereo recording now. I tried 3 movies on the server: 7.1 TrueHD, 5.1 DTS-HD, 5.1 Dolby, and I tried Netflix Web. All recorded in stereo perfectly fine. The TrueHD one sounds amazing actually.

    Then I tried the 7.1 TrueHD with my HDFury set to 5.1 (it was on "All Sound" previously). That got rid of the echo hallway, but it started more weird behavior. I tested the same exact MKV file: one captured in HDR, the other SDR. Interestingly, both HDR and SDR files play fine on my PC with stereo headphones - both video and audio look and sound great (I dont have an HDR monitor either). However on my Nvidia Shield & Plex, the HDR has a 2-3 second delay in the video and the video is slightly grainy. The audio only comes from the center channel. For the SDR on the Shield, the video plays fine, but the audio only comes from the front 2 stereo channels. The only thing I changed was toggling HDR...thats it. Then my Nvidia Shield glitched out and the homescreen got all messed up. Im wondering if HDMI cables are the problem on that one too, as theyre also Monoprice cables. Really getting sick of monoprice here...

    edit: nope, not the cable
    Last edited by Big Ry; 2nd Sep 2020 at 21:22.
    MSI Z390, i7-8700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060 KO, AverMedia LG4k, HDFury Vertex≤, Sam 970 Pro (OS), multiple SSDs/HDDs, AOC 32" 4k
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads