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  1. Can’t Save Final VurtualDub2 File as an MP4

    Using VirtualDub2, I can load and work on files currently in the AVI or MP-4 formats.

    When I’m done working on the file, I can “Save Video”, to an AVI.
    If I wish to save it as an MP-4, from the drop-down list my option is (MPEG-4 Part14 (*.mp4).

    However, when I invoke that option for having my workfile placed into that MPEG-4 format, I get the following dialog:

    “X pcm_s16le: codec not currently supported in container 14.”

    I had though that VirtualDub2 addressed this marrer. Can someone explain the meaning of this dialog, and how I might address it?

    Thank you.
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  2. PCM audio is not supported. Save the video without audio as mp4. You can later convert the audio track to another format (ac3, aac) and mux it to the new video.
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  3. ProWo ---

    Thank you for your suggestion; however, I've had no success.

    I capture VHS video with a program other than VirtualDub (I cannot get VirtualDub video and audio to sync [I've tested every option over a period of days]).

    I tried capturing using settings (for audio) including PCM, AC and AAC.

    I then open the file (either AVI or MP-4) in VirtualDub.

    I apply a few VirtualDub filters. (Subsequent editing to be done in Premier Elements.)

    I then wish to "Save File".

    If I "Save File" to AVI format ---- no problem.

    But in all cases (of capture when audio is set to PCM, AC or AAC), when I go to "Save File", if I select format MP-4 I get the error dialog similar to the one I noted earlier. (The number "16" sometimes reads 32, but the rest of the error code is the same.)

    If you can think of another way to address this, I'd appreciate a suggestion.

    (Note: As mentioned, I can save my VirtualDub project as AVI; however, I was informed by a very experienced member of this site that MP-4 was probably a better container to save my VirtualDub project (which will subsequently be loaded into Premier Elements for editing.)

    Thanks again.
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  4. You can remux your avi to mp4 with my clever FFmpeg-GUI.
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  5. Member
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    You can certainly capture in PCM/WAV this is advised.

    However, later, when you do something in Virtualdub you have to convert the audio to something else
    Audio/full processing mode/compression/FFmpeg AAC (use the configure button to raise the bitrate to 160
    and try that)

    The alternative is to disable the audio in Vdub and deal with it later
    Audio/no audio
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  6. ProWo ----

    I just looked at the interface for your program. Looks quite straight-forward, but as I am new to all this, may I ask:

    Since I can save my VirtualDub project as AVI, that will be my starting point for using your program to convert to MP-4.

    1) Looking at the main screen of your program, would I be correct in assuming that I would not touch the “Copy as is” box, but begin with the “Modify” box?

    2) Since it would appear that my audio (whether PCM or AAC) is ok as is, I would thus select Modify > Video Track?

    3) I do not know what the “Multiplex” box if for.

    4) In the final, “Other”, box, I do not know what “Change Video AR” means, but would I in any event select “Change source file”?

    Thank you.
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  7. Main, Multiplex, set your avi as videosource, set the same avi as audiosource, set a target filename, set mp4 as output container, click Multiplex. Done.
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  8. PoWo and davexnet:

    PoWo:
    I read the “txt” file that accompanied your program and thus downloaded the file from
    https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds. Nonetheless, having little previous experience and little frame of reference regarding the information in your “txt” file that accompanied your program (I did/do not know what is a FFmpeg static build), I could not determine how to install it or your “Clever FFmpeg GUI” program. That said, I can envision how the “Clever FFmpeg GUI” program would be extremely handy and will give it another try in the future.

    For the present, however, I found success in my present effort to save a VirtualDub project as an MP-4 (rather than VirtualDub default of AVI).

    davexnet:

    Per you instructions ----

    ---- I captured my VHS tape with audio set to PCM (and video codec set to HuffYUV).

    ---- I opened the capture file in VirtualDub2, applied a few Filters and another item or two, set my output video compression codec to H.264, 8-bit. (I assumed that for converting old VHS tape, the 10-bit version of H.264 would not be helpful). (Note Also: I have to save video compression to H.264 because my editing program, Adobe Premier Elements, does not support HuffYUV (I get a blank screen).

    ---- For VirtualDub audio, I changed from the default “Direct Stream Copy” to “Full Processing Mode” then set audio compression to AAC-192kbs.

    I executed a “Save Video” and changed the default from format AVI to MP-4. (I was told in this VideoHelp site that, today, as contrasted to a decade or so ago, MP-4 would he the better container.)

    Bingo! No VirtualDub error dialog. It took about twenty minutes to encode and write the new MP-4 file. It imports into Premier Elements without problem.

    Thank you both for your suggestions and advice.
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  9. Member DB83's Avatar
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    You do realise that your workflow removes all the advantages in capturing in a lossless format in the first place.


    Your mp4 is now lossy and will have long GOPs, maybe as large as 450 frames, which make further editing, if frame-accurate cuts are important, difficult if not impossible without even more quality loss.


    Mp4 really should be the final delivery format after ALL editing and not a bridge between one editor and another.


    BTW You confuse vdub/vdub2 with mp4/mp4 v2. Only mp4 v2 allows for various video/audio codecs whereas the original container is restrictive in its options in this regard.
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  10. DB83:

    Yes, I figured that the potential advantage of HuffYUV would be compromised. But as stated, my editing software does not recognize a file with HuffYUV codec. It's either AVI or MP-4 (or a few others).

    So, I can capture as H.264, AVI --- and keep it that way through VirtualDub and into my editing software . . .

    OR, capture as H.264, MP-4, load into VirtualDub, save as MP-4 --- then into my editing software . . .

    OR, capture as H.264, AVI, load into VirtualDub, save as MP-4 --- then into my editing software.

    As you can see, I thought I might be gaining some benefit by initial capture in HuffYUV and working with that in VirtualDub . . . then converting to H.264 so that my editing software could use it, but ok, I guess not.

    So, in light of my practical options, which workflow would be recommended?

    Thank you.
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  11. Member
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    Continue to capture as you're doing.
    Explore the other codecs in the Virtualdub2 compression options, for example lossless FFmpeg FFV1
    (set as 8bit,4:2:2 chroma) You can encode a small file to see if your editor will accept it.

    If not, you could continue to use H264 and turn the CRF down to 1, set YUV 4:2:2 in the configure window.
    It's not lossless, but maintains much of the quality

    What H264 settings were you using?
    Last edited by davexnet; 22nd Aug 2020 at 23:17.
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  12. davaxnet,

    Thank you for your assistance.

    My editor, Adobe Premier Elements, and as I have discovered other consumer-level editors such as Vagas Move Studio, do not support the entire breadth of video and audio codecs as do the "PRO" versions of the programs. As an amateur who is converting family VHS tapes to digital then burning DVDs, I can't justify the price of the "PRO" versions, especially the "subscription" prices. So it appears that I must compromise.

    My editor, Adobe Premier Elements, does not support --- i.e., will not work with --- HuffyYUV or Lagarith video codecs or the other lossless codecs commonly described on this VideoHelp site. Nor can I capture in VirtualDub or VirtualDub2 due to out--of-sync video and audio. (I've tried everything ever mentioned on this site, including turning off audio during capture and tested many "Timing" settings. No good. So I have been working on compromise solutions.

    My solutions include capturing with PotPlayer (no video-audio sync issues). Then I load my captured file into VirtualDud 2 for some filter-added improvements. Lastly, I save the VirtualDub file and load it into Adobe Premier Elements for editing.

    In respect of the above, I initially captured as 720x480, AVI format, H.264 codec, YUY2 color space (that's 4:2:2 is it not?), PCM audio. VirtualDub, of course, accepts the AVI file and saves the video in AVI by default. Adobe Premier Elements accepts the AVI as outputted by VirtualDub. (It may not accept PCM audio, but since there is no music, just speaking voice, I assume AAC at 192kbs is ok.)

    Then I had an idea: For the first leg of this journey --- capture and then applying VirtualDub filters --- why not capture in (lossless) HuffYUV so that VirtualDub adjustments are made to a lossless format, THEN convert to H.264 (and, if needed, AAC 192kbs) so that the file can be imported into Adobe Premier Elements. Of course DB83 thought that was a poor workflow, implying that I should have loft out the HuffYUV and proceeded all along in H.264. I accept that my idea of using HuffYUV part way was faulty. Ascribe that to new-user experimentation!

    I then read that most users of Adobe Premier Elements (mostly amateurs) have gotten away from AVI altogether, thereby capturing and editing all along in MP-4 and H.264. So I gave that a shot, but soon learned that VirtualDub will not save to MP-4 if the audio is PCM, so you advised me (see above) to convert the audio in VirtualDub to AAC (I chose 192kbs) and it worked --- and Adobe Premier Elements imported the resulting file without problem.

    So as you can appreciate, I'm "up in the air".
    --- Would the better workflow be to capture as AVI with HuffyUV codec (YUY2/4:2:2) and after application of the VirtualDub filters to convert to H.264 (8-bit or 10-bit)?
    --- Or would the better workflow be to capture in AVI with H.264 codec (YUY2/4:2:2) and leave it as such all the way from capture to import into Adobe Premier Elements?
    --- I assume I should leave MP-4 entirely out of the process during this capture-to-editing workflow?

    Finally, you recommended that I "turn the CRF down to 1." I'm sorry to state that I do not know what "CRF" is (but if I did surely I'd turn it down to 1).

    Thanks for your assistance.
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  13. Member
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    Use mediainfo in text view to check the color
    Code:
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
    Set it like this
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	422.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	185.3 KB
ID:	54613  

    Last edited by davexnet; 22nd Aug 2020 at 23:42.
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  14. davexnet,

    Excellent, thank you ---- that's exactly how I set it.

    Yesterday, I had looked over the various configuration menus very carefully. Although I did not, and do not, know what "CRF" is all about, I could see the slider moveable from "high quality" way down to less so. The decision was straight-forward.

    Related: Do you have any suggestion regarding my having used HuffYUV for capture and VirtualDub filters, but then converting to H.264 (so that Premier Elements can use the file), versus leaving it H.264 all the way through?

    Thank you.
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    Well you should check if you're able to set chroma sampling of 4:2:2 in your H.264 capture
    if you want to try that again.

    It'll be interlaced capture in a progressive encoded file, but as long as you handle it right
    it may work out

    CRF is control rate factor, a single pass rate control mode . The lower the number, higher the quality, biggest files sizes
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  16. davexnet,

    The PotPlayer, which I used for capture, seems to be extremely powerful and option rich.

    Although in capturing VHS tape the "default" setting was chroma sampling 4:2:0, I had read on this website about 4:2:2, so that is how I set it.

    Thanks for your help.
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  17. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I never implied or stated that you should leave the lossless huffyuv capture out of the workflow. I was merely illustrating that the more encodes you do from there the more quality you lose.


    In fact you now state that your final aim is dvd so that means yet another even lossier encode from your mp4.


    But if dvd is your aim then capture as huffyuv, do your filtering in vdub2 but output not as mp4 but as dvd-compliant mpeg2. As long as you are doing no more editing then you do not even need Premier to create the dvd. Several free programs exist to do just that and also burn. If you want a copy of the filtered video for PC playback then by all means also output another copy as mp4 but, again, aim not to use that for dvd authoring.
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  18. DB83:

    Thank you for you note.

    As a matter of fact, however, I will be doing quite a bit of final editing, using Adobe Premier Elements, after the use of VirtualDub. And that is the confounding factor in this all.

    While I can capture VHS tape to a digital video file having the HuffYUV codec (or H.264, H.265 and many others), Abobe Premier Elements will not accept a video file having the HuffYUV or Lagarith codec. So the file loaded into Adobe Premier Elements must be of the type supported by the program, such as H.264, H.265, MOV and a few others.

    I had hoped to capture using VirtualDub, but after many days of experimentation I could not do so due to out-of-sync audio and video (I've tried all the suggestions provided on this site). So I am capturing using "PotPlayer (very powerful, lots of capturing and output options). The reason I nonetheless would like to involve VirtualDub in the workflow is due to a couple of its excellent filters.

    So where does this leave me? As a beginner, I don't know for sure. My initially planned workflow was to use H.264 all the way from capture to editing in Adobe Premier Elements. It was only then thet I thought I might be able to eek-out a bit of improvement by capturing in HuffYUV and using that for my adjustments in VirtualDub (all lossless), and only after that point converting to H.264 so that the files could be loaded into Adobe Premier Elements for the full editing (and ultimately burning to DVD).

    But I thought you earlier post was intended to provide me a heads-up that the conversion from HuffYUV to H.264 might cause a degrading that would be more severe that merely capturing in H.264 and keeping it H.264 all the way from capture to editing in Adobe Premier Elements.

    I suppose one could describe these as entirely different workflows (induced by the limitations of Adobe Premier Elements). But which (if either) is likely top produce a better end result?

    Again, thank you for your assistance.
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  19. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I have no experience with Premiere Elements. But I would have thought that it accepts mpeg2 which will be much easier to edit than long-GOP mp4
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  20. DB83,

    I'm sorry, could you tell me what "GOP" stands for in your term "long-GOP".

    Thanks.
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  21. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Easy to read this


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_pictures


    than for me to try to explain it
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  22. Perfect; thank you.

    Obvious now, it is an important concept to understand.
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  23. Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    Continue to capture as you're doing.
    Explore the other codecs in the Virtualdub2 compression options, for example lossless FFmpeg FFV1
    (set as 8bit,4:2:2 chroma) You can encode a small file to see if your editor will accept it.

    If not, you could continue to use H264 and turn the CRF down to 1, set YUV 4:2:2 in the configure window.
    It's not lossless, but maintains much of the quality. What H264 settings were you using?

    davexnet ----

    May I ask you a question of theory rather than “how to” . . . .

    In an earlier discussion, I noted that my intended workflow (VHS to digital) must take into account that my video editing program, Adobe Premier Elements, does not support HuffYUV or other lossless codec; I must use a supported video codec, which in this case will be H.264.

    You advised me that, all things considered, I should be ok if in VirtualDub I select H264 as the compressor but in its Configuration dialog turn the CRF down to 1 (and set YUV to 4:2:2).

    Through much practice and experimentation since reading your advice, I observe that the effect of adjusting the CRF slider is to increase or decrease the bit-rate at which the video is captured. I had earlier read (in my capture software docs) and experimented, that a capture bit-rate of 8000 was good for my purposes. I tested that (raw, unedited) capture and it seemed ok.

    However, in experimenting with the VirtualDub H264 CRF slider, I observe that a setting of about “10” results in a capture bit-rate of about 8000, whereas a CRF slider setting of “1” results in a capture bit-rate of around 32,000. Quite a difference, and a MUCH large file size.

    So if capture at bit-rate 8000 seems to produce the optimum video quality, and that corresponds to about “10” in the VirtualDub H264 CRF slider, why capture a slider setting “1”, which will result in a much larger file?

    What I came up with was the result of my recently reading about GOP, K frames and B frames. And I am asking if, putting this all together, you believe I am on track, as follows:

    (i) If one were taking the captured video straight to burning a DVD, then capturing at 8000 (CRF setting of about “10”) is ok. However ----

    (ii) If one were intending to do lots of post-capture editing, the potential advantage of a far higher capture rate, say a VirtualDub H264 CRF of 5 or lower (bit-rate of 16K to 32K), is that it would result in many more Key frames, and thus editing would be much more accurate.

    Is my guessing on this matter any where near accurate? Could the lower-number (higher-quality) CRF have to do with improving other parameters?

    Thank you.
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  24. Member
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    The best method is to capture lossless (the bits straight out of the ADC) and manipulate the video
    (anything that causes quality loss) as little as possible before rendering to your delivery format

    In the scenario we discussed earlier your were talking about the original Huffy capture and how to convert it
    to a format acceptable to your NLE

    I suggested H264 with CRF 1 @ 4:2:2 (CRF 0 is lossless but not available in Virtualdub2). CRF 1 is not lossless
    but preserves much of the quality. I also mentioned a possible alternative in Virtualdub2 the FFmpeg FFV1
    lossless codec - to try a short clip to see if it was compatible with your NLE.

    At the end of the day the choice is yours. We point out the best practices and things to consider,
    but you do what you like - don't have to justify it to us
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  25. Originally Posted by Avagadro1 View Post
    In an earlier discussion, I noted that my intended workflow (VHS to digital) must take into account that my video editing program, Adobe Premier Elements, does not support HuffYUV or other lossless codec; I must use a supported video codec, which in this case will be H.264.

    You advised me that, all things considered, I should be ok if in VirtualDub I select H264 as the compressor but in its Configuration dialog turn the CRF down to 1 (and set YUV to 4:2:2).
    But did you check to see if Elements accepts the 4:2:2 variety of h264 ? It might not. Pro versions will like Premiere Pro, but 4:2:2 tends not to be a consumer oriented format. Also check - it might accept the lossless version of x264 and treat it like YUV as Premiere does (in vdub2 x264 configuration , select single pass - lossless)

    Also, you can set the aspect ratio with SAR width and SAR height. You can use 10:11 for 720x480 4:3 VHS

    Also, you can set --tff or --bff in the extra command line box to enter the field order, so you get proper interlaced encoding and signaling


    So if capture at bit-rate 8000 seems to produce the optimum video quality, and that corresponds to about “10” in the VirtualDub H264 CRF slider, why capture a slider setting “1”, which will result in a much larger file?
    Because the quality is higher, and you were obsessed with lossless format, perhaps for additional filtering and processing. It was already mentioned in your other threads CRF1 is near lossless, higher quality than even Prores XQ4444 or Cineform Filmscan3 . You won't be able to tell the difference if the end result is DVD. QP1 will actually yield slightly higher quality and filesize than CRF1 .


    (ii) If one were intending to do lots of post-capture editing, the potential advantage of a far higher capture rate, say a VirtualDub H264 CRF of 5 or lower (bit-rate of 16K to 32K), is that it would result in many more Key frames, and thus editing would be much more accurate.
    Not keyframes. Keyframes are where the IDR or "I" frames are placed. Keyframes are related to the GOP length. A max keyframe interval of "1" means every frame is a keyframe. This affects seeking latency, shorter values imply shorter max GOP length, and editing is "snappier" . But everything should be "accurate" in terms of the correct frame - long gop or not - otherwise you have bigger problems. There are other settings to make it decode faster in the the editor too, you can use checkmark tune fastdecode and zero latency. Generally, the less compressed, the larger the filesize at given CRF or QP level , but this helps editor seeking performance. More compressed implies smaller filesizes, but it takes longer to seek and decode, so editor performance is slower
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