Capturing VHS, Black/White on PC

[Dutchsteammachine]

I want to capture several American NTSC VHS tapes for my YT channel, for nostalgic spaceflight-related content.


VCR: Panasonic NV-FS88EG S-VHS, PAL region.
Capture device: USB-Live2 Hauppauge!
Capture software: WinTV 8.5, tried many free programs too.

I am a noob to this, so it will take some time for me to learn the proper archiving workflow for this.

But currently my biggest problem is that my captures do not have any colour... at all, they are completely black and white. I tried all kinds of PAL, NTSC and even MESECAM modes. Same goes for live view/preview of video. Tried both S-Video and Composite.

When I connect my VCR to my samsung syncmaster 215tw monitor I do have colour, albeit with horizontal lines, but I think those are caused by the monitor and not the VCR.

I read somewhere that the VCR is converting the NTSC to PAL internally and this is confusing the capture device. NTSC to pal-60? which is not an option on my capture device.

Any ideas on how I can best fix this? See attachments for some quick unprocessed captures.

Regards

[lordsmurf]

That VCR is not converting NTSC to PAL, but rather to a quasi-signal that looks "good enough" on TV. However, that signal is not "good enough" to be captured. You need a true PAL or NTSC signal, not the quasi signal output.

[Cornucopia]

That's one of the most apt descriptions/explanations for that conundrum that I've seen on here in quite a while.


Scott

[jagabo]

There are a few capture devices that can deal with "PAL60". Search these forums for that term.

[dellsam34]

That's one of the most apt descriptions/explanations for that conundrum that I've seen on here in quite a while.

Me too, people tend to freak out when they hear the word PAL60 or even worse PAL 4.43 MHz, So that's one way of putting it.

[hech54]

The Hauppauge USB can do PAL60, but I've only managed to get MPEG2 capture via WinTV 7.
As I recall you need to set up a TUNER to PAL60.....even though you are not using the tuner portion of the program.
The setup should show NTSC, PAL and PAL60 as tuner setup options.
I cannot run WinTV7 right now because my Hauppauge is not attached to the PC and buried in a box somewhere.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/351311-PAL60-Success-finally

[DB83]

The WinTV software, which you appear to be using, does have a setting for PAL60. Click on the up/down arrows on player area until Pal60 is shown at top of window. Yours should default to '0-Composite' and 'PAL 60 Composite' appears as the 5th selection. I do not think that PAL 60 is available for s-video.

[Dutchsteammachine]

The Hauppauge USB can do PAL60, but I've only managed to get MPEG2 capture via WinTV 7.
As I recall you need to set up a TUNER to PAL60.....even though you are not using the tuner portion of the program.
The setup should show NTSC, PAL and PAL60 as tuner setup options.
I cannot run WinTV7 right now because my Hauppauge is not attached to the PC and buried in a box somewhere.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/351311-PAL60-Success-finally

The WinTV software, which you appear to be using, does have a setting for PAL60. Click on the up/down arrows on player area until Pal60 is shown at top of window. Yours should default to '0-Composite' and 'PAL 60 Composite' appears as the 5th selection. I do not think that PAL 60 is available for s-video.

I deleted all channels in WinTV 8.5 and made new ones for just PAL60, for both composite and S-Video.

I do get a picture now on PAL-60, but it is still B/W on both composite and S-Video.


I suppose the best way to fix this is to get a NTSC Prosumer/pro VCR, preferable S-VHS while I am at it.


For now I used a DVD capture-burner from Sony that is able to capture the signal in colour and burn it to DVD in real time, as 720x480 VOB files. It also seems to have a TBC build-in, I see no offset at the top lines as I do with B/W USB-Live2 capture. But I do think the overall capture can be done better with the USB-live2 and a true NTSC VCR. Hard to say by comparing B/W to colour...

[DB83]

Like hech54 I use WinTv7 not WinTv8.5 as you are using.


One Q. did that software come on a disk with the unit or did you download it ? It is quite possible that 8.5 is not compatable with the USB-Live for PAL 60 since you really should be getting a colour signal on your PC monitor with it.

[oln]

For now I used a DVD capture-burner from Sony that is able to capture the signal in colour and burn it to DVD in real time, as 720x480 VOB files. It also seems to have a TBC build-in, I see no offset at the top lines as I do with B/W USB-Live2 capture. But I do think the overall capture can be done better with the USB-live2 and a true NTSC VCR. Hard to say by comparing B/W to colour...

Instead of burning to it you can simply capture the output from the DVR directly with the card to avoid mpeg compression it. If it's one of the newer one they're able to decode PAL60 (and alternatively NTSC 4.43 and normal NTSC for VCRs that output that) and output normal NTSC (If set to it in the menu.) and also have some TBC activity on the video to avoid wiggly lines and audio sync issues. The DVR can stabilize the video much better than the hauppage can, even when capturing from a proper NTSC VCR.

[Dutchsteammachine]

Instead of burning to it you can simply capture the output from the DVR directly with the card to avoid mpeg compression it. If it's one of the newer one they're able to decode PAL60 (and alternatively NTSC 4.43 and normal NTSC for VCRs that output that) and output normal NTSC (If set to it in the menu.) and also have some TBC activity on the video to avoid wiggly lines and audio sync issues. The DVR can stabilize the video much better than the hauppage can, even when capturing from a proper NTSC VCR.

Unfortunately it only allows burning to DVD. It is a rather small unit meant to put movies/photos from memory cards, DV, handycam, composite or s-video to DVD.

[oln]

Ah, so it's something like this you have? I thought you were talking about something like this which is capable of doing what I mentioned.

[DB83]

Direct to disk recording to cool. Certainly very few such devices could handle this quasi-pal signal so you have got lucky there.


But I am still concerned with your use of WinTV 8.5 - The Hauppauge support page


https://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/support/support_usblive2.html#WinTV


States that you need the WinTv7 CD to actually download v8 etc. Did the WinTV7 not work for your system ?


The reason I persist is that you will get better quality captures from the USB Live than by a direct-to-disk method. Sourcing a NTSC player will itself be troublesome since you will sure have to be careful. And can only be certain by getting one from the US.

[lordsmurf]

I suppose the best way to fix this is to get a NTSC Prosumer/pro VCR, preferable S-VHS while I am at it.

That will yield the best quality, always.

The NTSC pushed into PAL via hardware will had jaggies and ghosting. That can be avoided with true NTSC capture, as you can then truly convert the file with safe quality methods in software.

This process is a lot easier now than it was 20+ years ago!