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  1. Hi,

    Need some advice. I have a JVCGR-AX750 VHS-C Camcorder. I was going through my home videos to label them and make some short videos to email people, etc. using Win-TV capture and software called Any Video Converter. I was using a Panasonic Magnvox converter when a tape got stuck in it. I was able to take it apart to get the tape out, but I wasn't too sure about using the converter again. So, I started using the camcorder by hooking it up to the TV. Then tapes started getting jammed up in the camcorder. Should I try to fix the camcorder myself or get it fixed somewhere? Buy another camcorder or buy another converter? Any advice ? Thanks!

    NY_R
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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    You're essentially approaching the project entirely wrong.
    - Bad playback hardware.
    - Bad capture and conversion software.

    For VHS-C, the most critical step is the VCR and the VCR adapter being used. Many are infamous for eating the tapes.

    That camcorder is a POS. Do not use it.
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  3. Once again, Lordsmurf thinks everything is garbage and you shouldn't use it, but doesn't provide any useful advice (sorry for the direct shot, but it gets tiresome to hear the same berating in post after post).

    Here are some useful ideas.

    First, when you have any problem playing a tape, stop right away and try another tape. Tape shells can get warped over time. I have this problem all the time with cheap audio cassettes, but it can also happen with video tape shells. If possible, try a tape that has been stored in a different location, because if the tape cartridge is warped, it may have been caused by storage conditions, and the other tapes stored in the same place may have a similar problem. Doing this will help you determine if you have problem tapes, or a bad machine. Since the tapes have had problems in two different units, it tends to suggest the tapes may be the problem.

    Second, when using a VHC-C adapter to play the tape in a regular VHS machine, make sure to check the battery in the adapter. Most of these adapter have a battery that is used to activate the eject mechanism, and if the battery is weak, the eject may only partially cycle or not work at all. This will result in jammed tapes, or tapes that don't mount completely.

    Third, if you're having problems with more than one tape getting jammed up in the camcorder, try doing a fast forward to the end of the tape followed by a rewind. This will do two things. First, it will tell you whether the tape shell has a warping problem that is causing the spools to bind. If this is happening, you see and hear the binding at the much faster speed used during FF or REW. You should just hear a solid, continuous noise, and you should see the hubs spinning without any scraping noise and without seeing any periodic slowdowns as the hub hits a friction point. A full FF followed by a rewind will also free any sticking tape and will give you uniform tension on the spool. This is more of an issue with audio cassette tapes, but could possibly help with video tapes.
    Last edited by johnmeyer; 16th Aug 2020 at 13:49. Reason: typo
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  4. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Do not use the camcorder to capture VHS-C tapes and do not use manual plastic adapters. Use JVC metal frame motorized adapters and make sure the battery is new or fully charged so the tape won't be half laced and gets eaten by the VCR. I'm not going to suggest better capture hardware/software since you mentioned sending videos by e-mail so I assume you want the smallest files there is without caring about the crappy quality, Sometimes people choose convenience over quality and that's totally fine.
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  5. Thanks everyone for replying and thanks for all the info! I really appreciate it!

    The adaptor I was using did not have a battery. I am going to look for that JVC metal frame motorized adaptor. I didn't want to try another tape in it because I am not sure if I put the adaptor back together correctly. However, the tape that got stuck worked in the camcorder and I continued on with the project of viewing tapes using the camcorder. Most of the tapes are stored in the same area.

    Was using FF at the time the tape got stuck in the camcorder. I did try another tape. I put the other tape in, didn't do anything, and just went to take it out, and the tape was already jammed without even doing anything. So, didn't want to try another one. Not sure I want to try that FF/Rewind test because of this. Maybe I'll try another one, but feel a little uneasy about it. I'll look for a tape i don't really need.

    I get what you are saying about small files to email, etc. but I would like to hear your thoughts on Win-TV and Any Video Converter. Especially if storing the videos to disk is better then using my VCR/DVD combo. Plus I would just like to hear anyway.

    Thanks again!
    NY_R.
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  6. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    I can't comment on Win-TV since I've never used it, I've never captured to a lossy format or DVD, I always capture lossless and encode from the lossless files to a lossy format for sharing. But do whatever convenient for you just keep the tapes safe until you decide to do a proper archiving job.
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  7. Thanks for replying again and for the information. I hadn't even thought about capturing, but this sounds interesting now. I don't know what all of those terms mean. Feel free to give some advice on where to begin. before I go fishing arund.

    Thanks again!
    NY_R.
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  8. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
    Once again, Lordsmurf thinks everything is garbage and you shouldn't use it, but doesn't provide any useful advice (sorry for the direct shot, but it gets tiresome to hear the same berating in post after post).
    No.

    My favorite example:
    Man: "Doctor, doctor, my weiner hurts! Should I use scissors or a knife to cut it off?"
    Doctor: "NO!!!! STOP!!!! WTF???"

    That was my advice:
    He is going down the wrong path here.
    Stop!
    Time for re-approaching this differently.

    Whereas you were advising him on how to sharpen both knives and scissors. I find that completely unhelpful.

    Originally Posted by NY_RRVid View Post
    I am going to look for that JVC metal frame motorized adaptor.
    Do that.

    Was using FF at the time the tape got stuck in the camcorder.
    Avoid FF/REW as much as possible the -C tapes. That is such a fragile format. In fact, almost zero reason to ever FF.

    I get what you are saying about small files to email, etc. but I would like to hear your thoughts on Win-TV and Any Video Converter. Especially if storing the videos to disk is better then using my VCR/DVD combo. Plus I would just like to hear anyway.
    Standard workflow:
    VCR > TBC > capture card
    The better the gear, the better the quality. More shortcuts, more hits to quality.

    Don't use Any Video Converter for anything. VirtualDub to capture, Hybrid to convert (deinterlace, encode, etc).
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 20th Aug 2020 at 11:22.
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  9. Thanks. Some great info here. If I have any further questions as I check into these things, I will ask. What would be considered a proper archiving job?
    Thanks again You guys have been very helpful.
    NY_R
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  10. I am not able to find a JVC metal frame motorized adaptor. I am finding ones that say "For JVC..." but they are not made by JCV. Here is what I am finding. Please let me know if these are good:

    https://www.amazon.com/Motorized-Cassette-Adapter-Panasonic-Micro-Fiber/dp/B0145NMZDW/...8749150&sr=8-9

    https://www.ebay.com/i/264844416443?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

    Thanks again.
    NY_R.
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  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    At the time, Panasonic and JVC were both part of Matsushita. Some products were rebadged between them.
    That Panasonic adapter is fine. It's identical.

    I'm amazed at how prices of these have gone from under $20 to $40-50 just in the past year or so.
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  12. Ha ha, yes, and I think that is the one I had when I first bought a VHS-C Camcorder. I think I left the battery in and ruined it.

    I did find the JCV model. Maybe I'll save the $20 and just get the Panasonic one, as long as it is just as good.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-JVC-C-P7U-Motorized-VHS-C-To-VHS-Tape-Adapter-BRAND-NEW-S...4383.l4275.c10

    NY_R.
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NY_RRVid View Post
    Ha ha, yes, and I think that is the one I had when I first bought a VHS-C Camcorder. I think I left the battery in and ruined it.
    Items usually are not ruined.

    1. Dismantle, clean off the battery acid with white vinegar.
    2. Then clean off vinegar with isopropyl/"rubbing" alcohol.
    3. Let alone, to naturally air-dry, for 30 minutes before using.
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  14. I found it, in the orig plastic bag - The C-P7U. the battery was fine. I did notice a small piece of black plastic in the bag. I think something broke in it. I don't remember, it's been a while. It stopped working though. I remember I had to get a new one.

    I'll play around with it and see what is going on with it before I buy the Panasonic.

    Thanks for the tip!

    NY_R.
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    Just my thoughts. Be prepared to capture the entire tape and do any editing with the computer software. Lordsmurf is correct in discouraging FF and RW. Make sure the tape machine mechanisms are clean. I don't know how one determines if the tape itself simply won't play due to age, etc.
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  16. Thanks. Well, you have to at least rewind sooner or later anyway, ha ha.

    I am starting to like the idea of doing a full capture on to the computer and transferring to DVD from there. I would imagine if I want to make short one minute clips to email uot, I could do that once I have the full video on Computer. Less wear and tear on the tape/camcorder/converter, etc. Then I could have two backups. Three if you include the original tape.

    Just curious - why creating a DVD using my VCR/DVD recorder under my TV is not as good as Capture to Computer and transfer from computer to DVD? Seems like the best quality you can get is from the RCA audio and video lines.

    BTW - the camcorder I used for these videos only has the Red and White RCA output lines. I bought a splitter to split the white (audio) into two outputs so they would fit into the three RCA inputs (Red, White, Yellow). Red to Yellow, White split to Red and White.

    Thanks again.
    NY_R.
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  17. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NY_RRVid View Post
    TSeems like the best quality you can get is from the RCA audio and video lines.
    No.
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  18. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NY_RRVid View Post
    Thanks. Well, you have to at least rewind sooner or later anyway, ha ha.

    I am starting to like the idea of doing a full capture on to the computer and transferring to DVD from there. I would imagine if I want to make short one minute clips to email uot, I could do that once I have the full video on Computer. Less wear and tear on the tape/camcorder/converter, etc. Then I could have two backups. Three if you include the original tape.

    Just curious - why creating a DVD using my VCR/DVD recorder under my TV is not as good as Capture to Computer and transfer from computer to DVD? Seems like the best quality you can get is from the RCA audio and video lines.

    BTW - the camcorder I used for these videos only has the Red and White RCA output lines. I bought a splitter to split the white (audio) into two outputs so they would fit into the three RCA inputs (Red, White, Yellow). Red to Yellow, White split to Red and White.

    Thanks again.
    NY_R.
    Let's break this down a bit...

    1. No you don't necessarily need to rewind/ff - you could just play it once while capturing & be done with it. You could also manually wind back or forward without incurring tension-related stress issues.

    2. Yes, capture to computer with subsequent conversion to dvd, or other forms of distributed final product is often mentioned here as one of,if not THE best, ways to go. It all depends on methods and attention to detail.

    3. You mention 2 different things here but have equated them, yet they are not that way. VHS is an analog medium and the best ways to get it to digital would be component video & balanced audio. Those are available but rare for vhs, usually only for s-vhs. Next best would be y/c aka s-video connection. If done properly in electronics, it should give a cleaner signal to both vhs and s-vhs playback/capture. A number of pro decks have s-video out for video and balanced (xlr) out for audio. Mind you, rca (unbalanced) composite video & audio out can often still be acceptable enough to most consumers, especially for sd vhs material.
    Next, there is the matter of how the capture is coded & saved. Dvd recorders save in compressed mpeg2 format, and while that might be enough if you intend to never edit or do anything else but watch the recorded dvd, it still isn't optimal. Even not counting other methods of coding & compression such as lossless, being able to do 2pass vbr mpeg2 compression in software is almost always going to look much better than what can be gotten from live, realtime hardware encoding since it can only do cbr or 1pass vbr.

    4. Using a splitter isn't necessary, but is common, and probably recommended as a way of getting standard 2ch audio into the computer, without post-processing.



    Scott
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  19. Hi,

    Thanks for the info. Sorry for the delay. Working on other pet projects too.

    I have two VCR/DVD consoles that write to DVD and one VCR/DVD player. They all have component and RCA and the two recorders have s-video.

    Win-TV has a s-video input. It looks like it creates MPEG-2. There are settings. I don't think I can change the format, but I am not positive. All these terms you use are new to me, so I need to investigate. Are there any preferred capture methods here as well?


    Just curious about one more thing with the VCR/DVD writers.... When you play the tape in that machine and record to DVD how do you measure the quality as compared to RCA input from either a camcorder or another VCR?

    Thanks again. Very informative.
    NY_R.
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  20. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure you'll find that what physical component option you see available on DVD/VCR combo, it almost certainly is ONLY output, and only output for the DVD side.

    So to go from vhs -> dvd, unless you have lucked out and found a combo machine that ALLOWS internal transfer of (non-commercial, macrovision-less obviously as they wouldn't allow otherwise) vhs to dvd, and even better, via component, you are more likely stuck with doing an external round-trip from vhs to dvd, using only the output options availabe to your vhs deck and the hopefully-matching input options available to your dvd recorder. Very likely composite, but possibly s-video.

    Unless I am confusing it with another device & app, WinTV is a tuner capture app for Hauppage tuner cards/devices. Tuner as in TV channel. RF. Aka the WORST capture method (required for tv/cable/sat channels, but avoidable for everything else). Worse than composite, as it requires demodulation on top of everything else.
    Tuner channel capture of digital channels usually does not re-encode the programs, but rather demultiplexes the (most commonly) MPEG-TS packetized streams and just rewraps the resulting mpeg streams (mpeg2 usually in ATSC) to the resulting container filetype - mpg, mp4, mkv, avi, etc.

    "Capture" can mean many, very different things:

    Standard baseband video (usually analog) capture
    TV channel program capture
    PC screen recording capture
    USB uvc (webcam) capture
    DV stream firewire transfer capture
    NDI or other VideoOverIP ethernet capture

    There is some overlap, but not much. Let's be clear - you should best be trying to do the first one.

    To compare an unknown internal transfer pathway vs standard external pathways, just use reference material (color bars, grayscale modulated charts, resolution gauging charts), and view side-by-side or time alternating or similar using AVIsynth.


    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 11th Sep 2020 at 00:17.
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    I'm pretty sure you'll find that what physical component option you see available on DVD/VCR combo, it almost certainly is ONLY output, and only output for the DVD side.
    Depends. I have a Panasonic ES-35 that outputs Component and S-VHS from the VHS side.

    So to go from vhs -> dvd, unless you have lucked out and found a combo machine that ALLOWS internal transfer of (non-commercial, macrovision-less obviously as they wouldn't allow otherwise) vhs to dvd,
    The ES-35 records from the VHS side to the DVD side. Similarly, the LG RC389H; it can copy both ways.

    Both these DVD recorders are PAL, but I'm sure the equivalent NTSC exists.

    Not that I am suggesting that VHS>DVD copy is the best way; it can be done though.
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  22. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I'm pretty sure you'll find that what physical component option you see available on DVD/VCR combo, it almost certainly is ONLY output, and only output for the DVD side.
    Depends. I have a Panasonic ES-35 that outputs Component and S-VHS from the VHS side.
    You have to be careful about a lot of these decks. The internal signal often gets routed via composite internally, and isn't y/c or component straight from the tape. In fact, that's almost always what happens, because it's cheaper to do composite>component/HDMI ($5) than actually extracting the Y/C and maintaining it (more than $5).

    Remember, these were cheapo consumer decks for mommies and daddies who would want to watch DVDs, watch "VCRs" (VHS tapes), and sometimes transfer a tape of junior burping up peas or playing T-ball (lousy shooting work, converted to worse-looking DVD). Also what I always considered pointless: converting old VHS released of Disney films, rather than buy the superior DVDs -- which, of course, failed (Macrovision).

    For some items, you simply need to follow the money, to understand what's going on internally. Think of market audience it was sold to. Combo DVD/VHS decks were for least-common-denonimator users.

    These were not high-end machines.

    The fact that ES10/15 (and maybe HDD equivalents, PAL only?) had a useful anti-tearing (aggressive line TBC functionality, sort of) is more of a happy accident than a planned event. Don't forget that. Panasonic's consumer end gear was largely terrible stuff, and their pro-end stuff was hit-or-miss. Don't get rosy hindsight vision!
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 11th Sep 2020 at 05:43.
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  23. Once again great info. Thanks for the responses everyone!

    I'll check the VHS/DVD decks to see if the S-Video works on the VHS side. Thanks for the tip. To be clear, two of these machines are DVD recordable and can record directly from the VHS side as well as from an input line.

    My origin Win-TV from years back was an actual card I had to put in my computer like a graphics car. The one I have now, is a small UBS device. I did use the orig as a TV tuner, but have not played around with that on this new one.

    Standard baseband video capture - thanks - I'll look into that. Not sure what you meant in your last paragraph about unknown internal transfer pathway, but maybe that will come up while investigating.

    Great message lordsmurf!

    Will post any other questions that I am sure will come up.

    Thanks again.
    NY_R.
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  24. I tried to use my origin C-P7U converter that i found still lying around. Put the battery in and the tape went in fine. However, it wouldn't play in the VCR. Kept ejecting. Then I couldn't get the tape out of the converter. I should have known there was a good reason I stopped using it way back when, ha ha. I had to turn it upside down to remove the tape.

    Boy, you can feel a difference between this one and the one i started sig after this one broke. Seemed heavier and more sturdy.

    So, I'll probably stick with saving the $20 and buy the Panasonic version over the JVC version.

    NY_R.
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  25. I tried playing a VHS tape using the S-Video output on ne of my DVD/VHS Recorders, and it worked!!! I hooked it up to my Win-TV. There was a picture and no sound cause I didn't bother connecting the red and white cables for sound. Just wanted to see if the video would work. So, that's good then. I can use this output if you guys think it is best. Got the adaptor in the mail this week too, but haven't tried it yet.

    Thanks again.
    NY_R.
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