This is working for me PAL VHS capture uncompressed

[Nands67]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=24776. Using an old capture program called WM9capture, it’s 124kb in size, see download link.
Working on win 10, but have problem setting the resolution, some how i get it to the correct resolution I want 720x576, maybe some one can help with that problem.
capture uncompressed pcm audio no sync issue.
standard vcr composite out to ES15 to Roxie USB

[DB83]

Why are you even attempting to capture in an antiquated format ?


I only ever see this in screen-capture or some DVR when it is not possible to directly record a stream.


720*576 may be PAL analog resolution yet I forget if wmv supports a DAR flag. If it does not you would end up with 5:4 and not 4:3.


If you can not use the Roxio software then do try vdub and with a much more 'modern' codec.

[Nands67]

Hi DB83,

It maybe antiquated or a fluke but it seems to work, just problem with changing from 640x480 to 720x576.

I have tried Virtual dub, virtual VCR and others but always out of sync.

Don’t care if the aspect ratio is not correct, can fix later.

It’s not wmv file, I am Not using a codec it’s uncompressed, or maybe I am wrong on this.

Media info says no codec required.

I don’t care about hdd space, In today’s terms it’s not a problem.

I want to archive then worry about the other processes later.

[DB83]

Post a mediainfo report (text mode) of a sample capture.

[Nands67]

General
Complete name : H:\WM9 capture\Tape 1 MASTER.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 69.4 GiB
Duration : 59 min 20 s
Overall bit rate : 167 Mb/s

Video
ID : 0
Format : YUV
Codec ID : YUY2
Codec ID/Info : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration : 59 min 20 s
Bit rate : 166 Mb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 5:4
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Compression mode : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 15.992
Stream size : 68.7 GiB (99%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 59 min 20 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 652 MiB (1%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 500 ms (12.49 video frames)

[DB83]

That capture is def not uncompressed video (the audio is uncompressed tho)


Uncompressed video would be, if memory serves, 2 gb per second. You have just over 1 gb per minute and is reported as 'lossless'

[Nands67]

Media info is not accurate, the actual file size is 72,768,724

where do you get 2Gb per second from?

[Nands67]

2Gb per second for full HD 60 fps but not SD 25fps

[Nands67]

It’s only about 663Mb/s for my capture

[Nands67]

If it is not uncompressed then what is it?

[DB83]

Ok. My bad. Memory does play tricks (would have been better to check this first)


https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/295571-What-is-uncompressed-AVI


Yes. I did contribute to the thread - approx. 2 gig per minute (not per second)


You will also see reply #7 that goes in to more technical detail inasmuch that RGB uncompressed has a higher data-rate than yuv.

[Nands67]

Yes i am aware of that but my source is VHS Pal is YUV 4:2:0 color space native.

RGB would require a color conversion which is lossy

[DB83]

Coming back to your original question, that could only really be answered by someone who as a similar capture device.


The capture program simply takes all its parameters from the device. This is confirmed in the notes/help screen. I also know this since I did install the program and my Hauppauge will only allow me to set 720*576 or 360*576 under Options >> Capture Pin which is where you set the Output size.


Now you do not have to take my word for the following. This info can be gleaned in other topics or why not create another since those that really know might not look at this one.


You appear to have confused color space eg RGB, YUV etc. with chroma subsampling 4:4:4, 4:2:2 etc. RGB is commonly referred to as 4:4:4 since that is pure uncompressed. Most consumer products will only capture 'uncompressed' at 4:2:2 as a compromise between acceptable quality and file-size.


And chroma subsampling is technically only in the digital realm. If VHS was to be given such a term it would be no better than 4:1:1. 4:2:0 is for dvd or DV (PAL) and similar codecs.

[Nands67]

That’s interesting that it accepted 720x576 for your device and not mine.

I tried another program called Capture Flux which accepts 720x576 however their was no option to change Audi format.

It also seemed to stay in sync.

Have not tried AMCap because it’s not free.

Have yet to come across any option to change the chroma sub sampling when capture uncompressed and don’t know if it would have any benefit.

Not interested in dvd at all.

Only interested in archiving for future use.

[dellsam34]

Use a S-VHS VCR if archiving is the goal, Using composite you are just making a convenient copy for watching, Archiving requires tapping into the original signal recorded on tape which is the Y/C signal and the only way to access it is thru a S-Video port, Unfortunately plain VHS players don't have such connector, hence using S-VHS machine, A line TBC in the VCR is a must, it corrects line jitter and provides more stable picture. Capture lossless AVI 4:2:2 using Vdub in 720x576 and crop to 704x576 to remove the useless 16 pixels (8 on each side) from the frame. When encoding to H.264 use sar=12/11 for PAL to get a perfect 4:3 aspect ratio out of 704x576.

[Nands67]

Hi dellsam34,

Yes agree with you, have read previous posts and wish I could get my hands on both, always looking on the internet but not going to pay a fortune for vcr that may or may not be working & Same for a TBC.

I just make do with what I have, a standard composite out vcr through pan dmr es15 to Roxie usb.

Vdub uncompressed capture is always out of sync so gave up on that.

Not fussed if it is not the best, just want the capture to be in sync.

I realize the sync can be fixed post so I am keeping those captures.

Hats off to all of you for sharing your knowledge, would never have got this far with out it.

[Nands67]

One thing I do like is the 6 or so pixels at the bottom where switching heads is ocuuring.

I personally would not crop that out. may effect filters but I don’t know.

The black side bars maybe, but it effects aspect ratio unless you add borders back in. Also may effect filters.

See it on YouTube older music clips, gives you some idea of the source.

[dellsam34]

For NTSC only pro capture devices capture at 486, Your card I assume captures NTSC at 480 you can't crop anything from 480, For PAL format it is 576 you can't do anything about it, it's the final legal resolution, As to 704 vs 720, no you're wrong 704x576 with sar=12/11 is the perfect 4:3 aspect ratio, Any other resolution or sar will never give an image free from deformation, We've already discussed it here and I proved it with video samples, I use to believe the same thing and I even argued with a senior member here just to find out I was totally wrong after researching and experimenting with it.

[lordsmurf]

always looking on the internet but not going to pay a fortune for vcr that may or may not be working & Same for a TBC.

Look harder.
These devices are still available from reliable sources. You're not just at the mercy of eBay shysters.

I just make do with what I have, a standard composite out vcr through pan dmr es15

That can work, but is heavily dependent on the tape. It's an extreme budget setup. There will be a fail rate, and quality will be reduced.

to Roxie usb.

That is a rebadged Easycap (aka Easycrap, terrible card/stick).

Vdub uncompressed capture is always out of sync so gave up on that.

This is due to dropped/inserted frames. It can be settings related, but lack of framesync TBC can also cause it. Since ES15 is there, look into settings. Again, noting that ES15 is not a true TBC, and ES10/15 alone does have a fail rate.

Not fussed if it is not the best, just want the capture to be in sync.

Captures are either good, or not. There's really no grade in quality "good/better/best". Maybe something like composite vs. s-video, but even then it's really more about the hardware.

I realize the sync can be fixed post so I am keeping those captures.

No, it cannot. The video is missing. It will never sync correctly.
The exception: constant drift (example 300ms). That's easy to fix in VirtualDub.

Hats off to all of you for sharing your knowledge, would never have got this far with out it.

We can get you further.

[Nands67]

Hi lordsmurf,

Some of my tapes have damage but no dropped frames, I just cut out the worst.


How can you tell if it is rebaged?


I believe you can fix resync even it it is variable using Audition.

[DB83]

lordsmurf, who has much more knowledge than me in these matters, might expand on this but the usual way is to compare the chipset employed in the unit. That info may be revealed to you in the capture program when you select the device or might be revealed under windows hardware.


Now I guess that the original easycaps were reasonable units. But the Chinese 'borrowed' the name and manufactured their own with poorer chipsets and poor driver support. And these poorer units found their way in to a multitude of devices with other names Roxio being one. And Roxio, I understand, took the p*ss by using their name to rebrand it at a higher price. So you effectively get the same item, maybe with better software etc. whether you paid $10 or $40.


The original easycap firm finally got fed up and rebranded/improved their own units under the Ezcap name with the Ezcap116 being the equivalent of their final easycap offering.

[Nands67]

In device manager properties details there is a bunch of tags for the hardware.

I have not gone much further from here.

First tag I checked out was hardware Id, copy paste in google and get Roxio Corel Corp.

[DB83]

I did say 'might' Windows only showed the device name under Sound, Video and Game Controllers.


The actual device/chipset should be revealed under the 'devices' menu of the capture software. For my Hauppauge that reveals 'Hauppauge Cx23100' whereby Cx stands for conextant xxxxx as the chipset.


What some guys also do out of curiousity is to acquire one of these cheap units without even attempting to install and actually take it apart to read the chipset.

[Nands67]

What capture software are you talking about?

Well I guess that would also work but not sure how much info the chip part number will provide.

[DB83]

Which one ?


The very one that this topic is all about. (Same info via vdub). But, if you have read the info, this software is not the finished article. It is provided as an illustration of what can be achieved. And, somewhat ironically, it actually uses the Amcap engine to do the work.


But the chipset part no is all that is pertinent. Some time in the distant past I was looking for a usb device that would capture PAL60 (ntsc playback from a PAL vcr that supports NTSC playback as most should do). I had gleaned that a later model of easycap could (or should) do this. Yet by reading here I established that the Hauppauge Usb Live-2 could do this regardless (as could my legacy Win98 PCI-based Hauppauge WinTV card) so I went with that.

[Nands67]

I have never seen the chipset stated under device in capture software. WM9 cap or Vdub.

Can you be more specific

[DB83]

Here are the appropriate screens from both programs as I see them.


If you can not see anything equivalent then it somewhat confirms lordmrurf's opinion that your capture device is 'un-specified'

[Nands67]

OK i understand you now.

In Vdub mine displays as Roxio Video Capture USB (Directshow).

Under audio there is 2 options Line (Roxio Video Capture USB) or Roxio Video Capture USB #2 (WDM).

My device came with the Roxio VHS to DVD Plus 3, model is a HU3180-E made in Taiwan, don't know what chipsets it uses.

The software is very basic and captures to MPEG2. which may be ok for some.

I have read about the older model being a copy of the ezcap DC60+

Have used Amcap and are the results OK

[Eric-jan]

What i expirienced with conversion is, is that incorrect frame rate or size conversion messes things up also with sound, aspect 4:3 is the actual image visible on a CRT 720x540 digital, 5:4 = 720x576 digital, is the complete "digital" info, with "dirt" included.
my guess is @OP: convert your "in-sync" in post with UniConverter available for Win10 too, this app has great options/settings to come to a result, with the correct cut-out, and aspect ratio.
Trying to "be good" in "one go" is just too hard, otherwise use OBS if all other fails.

from 480 to 576 ? that would give you letterbox with the correct aspect ratio.... 480/486 = NTSC, 540/576 = PAL, with 704/720 horizontal, (but some broadcasters had different "unvisible pillar bar sizes)

(Advantage with Uniconverter is, you drag, and see what you're doing)

[Nands67]

Hi Eric-Jan,

Thanks for your advice.

Have the frame rate covered pal 25 FPS, not sure how the sound could mess things up, aspect ratio 720 x 576 is fine, don’t mind the dirt.

I believe crt tv mask this dirt out with the physical front cover. If removed you would see it.

I am not at post stage yet and not familiar with uniconverter.

I don’t believe OBS supports uncompressed capture.

I will probably look at AVISynth+, FFmpeg, avspmod for post processing.