Problem Playing Hi8 video tapes on TV.

[DavidGS]

I have just managed to get an old 1990s Sony CCD-TRV05E Hi8 video camera to work. At least it appears to play back through the camera viewfinder (no screen). But when I connect it to TV using video/sound cables directly or via scart adapter the picture just goes round and round like the old TVs when the horizontal hold needed adjusting. The picture is there with full colour and sound, but can’t stop it going round. Wondering if it’s to do with modern HD TV system. I’m hoping to digitise the old tapes for which I will need to buy a dongle converter, about £40, but don’t want to waste the money if I can’t replay the tapes properly. Unfortunately Hi8 tapes can only be played through a video camera, there is no adapter. Most grateful if anyone has any answers or solutions?

[DB83]

At the very least you should check your tv manual. My not-so-recent Sony has two scart inputs but the manual states that only one supports, per the example, a VCR.


Also, do you have other devices connected to the tv that you could 'piggy-back' the input from the camera via that device such as a dvd-recorder (or even a VCR). If such devices play fine without the additional source but have the same problem with the new source then there is more likely to be an issue from the camera. Possibly a weak signal.


Just my two cents right now.

[DavidGS]

Thanks very much for quick reply. My main newer Sony TV has just one scart plus the older jack plug video and sound leads. Either way the picture rotates and no sound. A much older Sony has 2 scarts and the leads input. Same result for picture but sound is perfect. The connected devices PVR and DVD player only seem to have output sockets. I may have to find my old VHS recorder and see if that works 🙄. What puzzles me is that the picture in the Hi8 camera viewfinder on playback is perfect whilst the TV picture is unstable.

[johnmeyer]

I cannot find the "CCD-TRV05E" anywhere. Typo? Perhaps you meant CCD-TRV50E?

Some things that could cause lack of sync:

1. Copy protected material.

2. SECAM rather than PAL.

3. NTSC rather than PAL.

[DavidGS]

Yes, sorry it’s a typo. Should be TR705E. It’s a PAL camera, not multisystem as are the TVs. When you say copy protected, do you mean the tab on the cassette? I don’t have the means to copy the tapes as I can’t seem to get a stable output. They play OK through the view finder which is not colour, but connected to any of my TVs the picture rotates horizontally. I am going to try another old video recorder, if that works I’ll know it’s probably the camera. It’s a different cassette though so I can’t play the Hi8 on it.

[DavidGS]

So have now tested a Panasonic MiniDV tape video camera which plays back perfectly. Not sure if this tells me anything much as it’s obviously a digital format tape which I assume is very different to the Hi8 format. So still not sure if it’s the camera, TV or the tape. Given that the viewfinder plays a perfect black and white video image, I am wondering if they have separate play back heads and it is the head which plays colour where the problem lies. Any thoughts gratefully received.

[dvd3500]

I know that some PAL Hi8 cameras will play back NTSC tapes in black and white in the view finder.
Is there any way to hook it up to a computer to see if you can get a signal there?
Maybe run it through the MiniDV?
II think some had pass throughs...

[johnmeyer]

That model number (TR705E) also doesn't seem to exist. Try looking it up here:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/cameras-camcorders

I try not to berate anyone who asks for help, but in this case, I think you are providing information that is simply wrong and you are sending us all on a wild goose chase.

[johnmeyer]

That model number (TR705E) also doesn't seem to exist. Try looking it up here:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/cameras-camcorders

More importantly, how can you play a MiniDV tape in a Hi8 camcorder???

That is not possible.

I try not to berate anyone who asks for help, but in this case, I think you are providing information that is simply wrong and you are sending us all on a wild goose chase.

[DavidGS]

Good I’m glad about that, as I did not say I played MiniDV on a Hi8 or vice-versa, rather I tried another video camera to check that it played in colour on my TV. It did, but as you probably understand better than I it means not a lot as the two systems/cameras are very different. Furthermore the model number is definitely Sony CCD-TR705E. Hope this image uploads.


[Attachment 53166 - Click to enlarge]

The output on the camera is either s video cable or the audio/video jack plug cable. As a total amateur I have no idea if the output is digital or analogue. All tapes were recorded in PAL, no provision for NTSC.

My plan was to copy to VHS tape and then upload to computer via a dongle digital converter. If there’s a better work around I’d certainly like to hear it. But first I need a stable video picture.
Thanks for your help.
David

[DB83]

Well do not copy to VHS tape. My suggestion was to see if the tv had a steady picture from a VCR or passing the camera feed through a VCR. Not actually capturing to it.


You can, potentially, go straight from Hi8 to the PC via the capture dongle.


I can understand your reluctance to invest in the dongle unless you can see a steady picture. But I am leaning towards a fault with the camera. I actually own a Hi8 camera but it is a later/more basic model that has a bespoke A/V - single plug - connector.

[DavidGS]

Hi DB83. Yes I’m on that next, trying through a VHS. I am aware that I can connect to computer direct from camera using a dongle. As well as the Hi8 I have MiniDV and VHS C tapes to cope with. The Minis I can run through their camera, The VHS C can be played with an adapter as the camera is faulty, so it’s just the Hi8 issue I need to resolve, so I will try through a VHS recorder next. Many thanks for your help, much appreciated. DAVID

[dellsam34]

It appears to be a frame rate issue, Have you gone through the camcorder settings and made sure the output is set to PAL and not some other conversion standard?

[DavidGS]

Now that would be embarrassing! It’s 25 years since I used this camera! There does not appear to be a settings menu as such, just time and area. I’ve reset it to London and will try that. There doesn’t seem to be any specific way of choosing the TV system.
[Attachment 53173 - Click to enlarge]

[DB83]

But surely the only other 'Playback standard' is NTSC.


There would still have to be a setting on the camera for playback on PAL equipment just like with VCRs else the display, ignoring the rolling, would be IIRC in B&W.


Now back in the day, when VCRs came to the fore, one might certainly have to adjust the v-hold for proper playback of NTSC tapes.


Now fire up those memory cells and ask yourself how you played your recordings - direct from camera to tv or recording to VHS and then watching that.

[DavidGS]

This is all a bit weird! Have now tested playback through VCR. Does not make any difference. However, this morning when I started picture was unstable even in the black and white view finder. As I have noticed before, and should have mentioned, after a while it settles down and no rotating in the viewfinder but played through TV or VCR picture is still unstable, but good colour and sound. After a while the picture starts to stabilise and play normally, then reverts to frame instability. When stable there are at times other unstable lines across the picture, like break up, not spotty interference. It’s like the camera is relearning, or warming up, which of seems ridiculous. All this occurs at random times through the tape as I have been able to see sections clear which were previously unstable. So I’m sure it’s not the tape. I suspect whatever controls the frame rate is not working properly. Perhaps another clue is that fast rewind takes 10 minutes, I’m sure it did not used to take so long. Could the camera performance be improving with use after so long unused. My thanks to all of you for helping.
David

[DB83]

All your issues point to an inconsistent behaviour of your camera.


I still fail to get my head around why the view-finder shows the recording in B&W whereas a display, albeit faulty, show colour.


I'll make you an offer. You just cover my costs. Send me one of these 'faulty' tapes and I will run it through my capture system. If it is still rolling then the tape is at fault and you can forget the rest. Up to you. PM if you want to proceed.

[Cornucopia]

It's a b/w viewfinder, that's why. Most were, those days.

Sounds like the heads/motor on that cam are spotty - need to get a different one.

Scott

[DavidGS]

Many thanks to all who have responded. Much appreciated. DB83, thanks for your kind offer but I think I have puzzled out what the main problem is.

I have 3 tape systems to contend with. The Mini DV tapes, the newer system, runs perfectly in its camera, the Hi8 tapes suffers apparently random instability in its camera, the VHS-C tapes, the oldest system, show similar but variable instability played on a VCR (the camera wont run them at all). My thoughts were that the issue is perhaps magnetic tape degradation. I tested a blank VHS-C tape by recording from TV, the result was the same instability. To double check I tested a new VHS standard tape which recorded perfectly. So I think much of the issue is with deterioration of the magnetic tapes through poor storage, which I know was the case at my late father’s, recognising the Hi8 camera may have problems too.

I have decided my best option is to get a USB video capture dongle and save what I can. So my next and hopefully final question is what is the best reasonably priced one to get bearing in mind I am in UK, have 2 video camera PAL formats and must have MacOSX compatibility.

Once again many thanks

David

[DB83]

You may be better off asking a specific question for the capture device over at the Mac forum.


A quick Google found this:


https://www.climaxdigital.co.uk/Video/Audio-Capture/For-Mac


but only one device compatable for your particular OS.


You have other issues though when it comes down to the DV transfer since modern Macs (or PCs for that matter) do not have the required interface. I would have suggested a single unit which will work (subject to the interface) for all 3 tape types and since you are in PAL-land you would not have the same issues that many write about from NTSC-land.


I would have thought that tape deterioration results in drop-outs not rolling. And you should have seen deterioration in camera-playback as well.

[DB83]

Here's another one that looks promising for you.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Camcorder-Yosemite-Mavericks-Mountain-software/dp/B0049BI45Y/..._t1_B00293CDG0

[DavidGS]

Very many thanks for this. I was on the track of the last one too, but I like to see what’s in the box! However, it gets good reviews so I think I’ll try it. I have a MacBook Pro, not sure any laptops have VGA cards and can’t seem to find much info except they are built in to the system. It has an Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536MB if that means anything! This is well out of my comfort zone!

The description from ConvertStuffUK implies it will work with my system and doesn’t mention a VGA card, whilst the Climax one does.

You may be right about the Hi8 tape/camcorder. Whenever I start it I get lots of rolling even in the B&W viewfinder, but no other distortion. This settles in the viewfinder then later in the colour TV playback, but not completely. Sections which play OK, then don’t and vice-versa. I’ll just have to soldier on and make the best of it!

Thanks once again,

David