VideoHelp Forum

Try DVDFab and download streaming video, copy, convert or make Blu-rays,DVDs! Download free trial !
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 17 of 17
Thread
  1. Hi all,

    My first post...thanks for having me!

    I have started working on an old movie from the 30s (source is a DVD). I would like to perform the following tasks, but are unsure of the order in which they should be done:
    -- deinterlace
    -- degrain
    -- brightness/contrast
    -- sharpen
    -- 25>50 fps conversion (plan on using DAIN)
    -- AI Upscaling (plan on using Topaz Video Enhance AI)
    -- DeOldify (this part is just for fun...not saying I would keep it, but would like to know where in the order i should go)

    Thoughts are welcomed! Thank you in advance

    Joey
    Quote Quote  
  2. You're in New York, yet you're working with a PAL source?

    Originally Posted by Joey Bagodonuts View Post
    -- deinterlace
    Movies, by definition, are progressive. Why would you deinterlace it? Maybe provide a 10-second sample from the source (either VOB or M2V), one with steady movement.

    In my own restorations I denoise/degrain as one of the first steps and work with the brightness/contrast/levels later. In between I work on removing artifacts (scratches, splices, remaining dirt, damaged frames, etc.). Near the end I might sharpen.
    -- 25>50 fps conversion (plan on using DAIN)
    Why? I slow PAL sources (if that's what you have) to film speed and leave it there. Do you intend to interpolate to 50fps (I have no idea what DAIN is)? And, if so, why?

    I don't know what 'deoldify' is.
    Quote Quote  
  3. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    You're in New York, yet you're working with a PAL source?
    Yes. This movie was only offered in the UK.


    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Movies, by definition, are progressive. Why would you deinterlace it? Maybe provide a 10-second sample from the source (either VOB or M2V), one with steady movement.
    True, but DVD standard is interlaced...this VOB is no exception, and it was done quite poorly.

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    In my own restorations I denoise/degrain as one of the first steps and work with the brightness/contrast/levels later. In between I work on removing artifacts (scratches, splices, remaining dirt, damaged frames, etc.). Near the end I might sharpen.
    Good to know...thanks!


    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Do you intend to interpolate to 50fps (I have no idea what DAIN is)? And, if so, why?
    You should check out DAIN....Google some examples. I will be saving this project at each of its steps...I am not saying I'm keeping every step I try...just experimenting.

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    I don't know what 'deoldify' is.
    You should check that out as well. That is nothing more than a novelty for this project and I likely won't keep it, but I am really curious to see how it turns out!

    Joey
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    My $0.02...

    Ivtc or deint should always be first.

    Sharpen should always be last.

    In between, it depends, but one of the schools of thought says you need to noise/artifact reduce prior to restore/enhancement, so that the R/E isn't operating as much on the noise

    If you do any additional resize or temporal interpolation, it probably should be done near the end (but obvs before the sharpen).


    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Memphis TN, US
    Search PM
    What is this irresistible sexual attraction that some users have for deinterlacing (usually the worst way) and upsamplimng (ditto)?
    Apparently they have some really poor, cheap, disastrous playback systems that can't deinterlace or resize. You might have to deinterlace for cleanup filters, but QTGMC is the only way to do it. A decent player or TV can deinterlace and resize a hell of a lot better than you can with software. Save yourself the trouble, damage, and disappointment, especially with upsizing.
    - My sister Ann's brother
    Quote Quote  
  6. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Upscaling from MPEG DVD source? That won't look good.
    There's zero reason to upscale SD, especially not when starting from compressed sources.
    You'll just amplify noise.
    Even if you do choose to stubbornly upscale, that Topaz software is craptastic. It's dummy-friendly, but that's it.

    To concur: IVTC always first, sharpen always last.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    My $0.02...

    Ivtc or deint should always be first.

    Sharpen should always be last.

    In between, it depends, but one of the schools of thought says you need to noise/artifact reduce prior to restore/enhancement, so that the R/E isn't operating as much on the noise

    If you do any additional resize or temporal interpolation, it probably should be done near the end (but obvs before the sharpen).


    Scott

    Thank you, Scott...that is pretty much what my intention is....glad I am on the right track
    Quote Quote  
  8. Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    What is this irresistible sexual attraction that some users have for deinterlacing (usually the worst way) and upsamplimng (ditto)?
    That is my version of "fun"....ie: tinkering.

    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    QTGMC is the only way to do it.
    That is the plan.

    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    Save yourself the trouble, damage, and disappointment, especially with upsizing.
    Doing this is none of what you suggest...it is a fun experiment.

    You know...it is really comical. I am on another forum, of which I must say, I am an expert in the field. In this field I am a complete novice just trying to learn, have some fun, and experiment. So having forum experience, I love it when people ask a question, and rather than provide a direct answer to the question, they get a ton of reasons and opinons as to what they should or should not be doing with their time. I am glad I am seeing that pattern across many platforms instead of just the one I always participate on!

    Thank you for confirming QTGMC
    Last edited by Joey Bagodonuts; 29th Apr 2020 at 18:06.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    that Topaz software is craptastic. It's dummy-friendly, but that's it.
    I was hoping to use ESRGAN, but apparently it will not do B & W.
    Do you have any other suggestions?

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    To concur: IVTC always first, sharpen always last.
    Thank you.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Search Comp PM
    I asked this same question a number of years ago:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/347222-AviSynth-Order-of-Operations
    Quote Quote  
  11. Originally Posted by Joey Bagodonuts View Post
    True, but DVD standard is interlaced .
    And you misunderstand what that means. You don't deinterlace films. Realign fields, unblend field-blended garbage, IVTC (but only for NTSC sources), but not deinterlace. At some point in your project you might want to use AviSynth. There are some things only it can do.

    Originally Posted by Joey Bagodonuts View Post
    this VOB is no exception, and it was done quite poorly.
    You're asking for suggestions and advice. You have to provide a short sample. Open a VOB in DGIndex. Scroll to a place with movement and use the [ and ] buttons to isolate that short section. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Upload the resulting M2V file.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Originally Posted by Joey Bagodonuts View Post
    I was hoping to use ESRGAN, but apparently it will not do B & W.
    ESRGAN can work on B&W sources...

    But the original research paper models were trained on color sources. Most pre-trained, publicly distributed models are also trained on color sources. Using a generic model that was trained on a variety of color sources, on a specific B&W old film source probably will not produce good results. Even if you used an appropriate model - the main problem with using ESRGAN on video is temporal inconsistency; you can introduce a type of flicker into the video. It's really meant for still images.


    +1 to what manono is saying

    If your content is progressive, such as a film source - I would take a closer look first. Most types of deinterlacing will generally soften a progressive source such as film. It depends on how the transfer was done, and the process used to put it on DVD. PAL DVD's are "interlaced" but the content can be progressive. If you deinterlace a clean film PAL DVD - even with QTGMC - you will just butcher it. You will destroy fine details. It's counter productive whether you're upscaling (or not). I know you don't have a "clean" or "good quality" DVD, but in general you want to avoid deinterlacing progressive content to conserve what little quality you have left
    Quote Quote  
  13. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    You're asking for suggestions and advice. You have to provide a short sample. Open a VOB in DGIndex. Scroll to a place with movement and use the [ and ] buttons to isolate that short section. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Upload the resulting M2V file.
    Will do...thank you!
    Quote Quote  
  14. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I would take a closer look first. Most types of deinterlacing will generally soften a progressive source such as film. It depends on how the transfer was done, and the process used to put it on DVD. PAL DVD's are "interlaced" but the content can be progressive. If you deinterlace a clean film PAL DVD - even with QTGMC - you will just butcher it. You will destroy fine details. It's counter productive whether you're upscaling (or not). I know you don't have a "clean" or "good quality" DVD, but in general you want to avoid deinterlacing progressive content to conserve what little quality you have left
    Thank you for your comment...I will provide more info for you guys to chime in on.
    It is most appreciated!
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    I'm gonna edit what I said up above and mention in agreement:
    It's almost always better to leave interlacing alone throughout the process. Or if you cannot leave alone, leave until the end.
    Exception to this is always: film sources should be itvc'd when possible (ntsc), or rewoven deint when possible (pal). In a sense, you aren't really deint'ing a true field unique clip, you are just restoring the progressiveness. (Pal would prob also have a slowdown).

    You CAN rework the fields so they maintain their interlacing throughout, without detriment to the fields during subsequent operations, by separating, working the odds & evens separately, and the recombining (naturally prior to any deint you want to do for the final web product, such as qtgmc-the most recommended).
    My original thought was that since you said movies from 30s and you said dvd, it would fall under that exception. But I didn't mention it at the time.

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 29th Apr 2020 at 21:41.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Originally Posted by Joey Bagodonuts View Post
    Hi all,

    My first post...thanks for having me!

    I have started working on an old movie from the 30s (source is a DVD). I would like to perform the following tasks, but are unsure of the order in which they should be done:
    -- deinterlace
    -- degrain
    -- brightness/contrast
    -- sharpen
    -- 25>50 fps conversion (plan on using DAIN)
    -- AI Upscaling (plan on using Topaz Video Enhance AI)
    -- DeOldify (this part is just for fun...not saying I would keep it, but would like to know where in the order i should go)

    Thoughts are welcomed! Thank you in advance

    Joey
    Topaz will not upscale well with interlaced footage but works fantastic with progressive files. I highly recommend trying Topaz first to see the results you can achieve before doing anything else with the file. It cleans and sharpens as it enhances. Experiment with all setting. Ignore the recommended usage advice. My best results have been using the setting for computer generated video(CG) but it works great on poor quality SD files, even HD files actually.
    Quote Quote  
  17. -- deinterlace
    -- 25>50 fps conversion (plan on using DAIN)
    -- degrain
    -- brightness/contrast
    -- DeOldify (I am not sure what you mean by deoldify or how you plan to do it so I'm guessing this one)
    -- sharpen
    -- AI Upscaling
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads