VHS to Digital / TV Broadcast Quality

[VideoVillageForever]

About me.

I'm a filmmaker and TV Producer who works on documentary films. For the past two years, I've been working on my own independent documentary. It will be my first feature doc as a Director. I've self-funded this endeavor and will continue so til funds roll in from grants or investors.

My problem.

This film will rely heavily on archival footage from the late 90's era. I've amassed VHS tapes, VHS-C and Hi8 tapes ready for transfer. It's time for me to start digitizing these tapes into lossless uncompressed files that I can later hand off to an editor.

While in production, I've been shooting my interviews, b-roll and other footage using an FS5 mark 2, capturing with Final Cut Pro X and saving onto multiple drives. Storage is not an issue.

This film will eventually make it's way to digital platforms such as Netflix and will likely have a limited indie theatre run.

Keeping this in mind, what is the best possible workflow that I could have for this?

I want to give my editor flexibility, room for color correction, ect with these digitized files.

Has anyone here worked in the broadcast/TV space?

Thank you!

VVF

[dellsam34]

Ideally you would need a pro capture device with some sort of frame synchronizer / TBC such as the BrightEye 75 (I have one that I will be listing shortly) and a camcorder or a deck built in line TBC for line jitter reduction and DNR for chroma cleanup since you are dealing with consumer formats. The BE75 captures to digital SDI that suits your pro gear otherwise you would need to install a SDI PCIe expansion card if you don't have one.

Honestly if you don't have a lot of tapes it is better to get in touch with a member here including myself who has the right gear that can do them for you, it may cost you less than investing in such gear if you don't plan to use it again.

[chris319]

You need to read the delivery specs for Netflix and whomever else you might submit to.

See if you can arrange for a test of your edited footage to see if it passes muster with Netflix.

[dellsam34]

He is just inquiring about capturing the analog tapes in lossless (AVI 4:2:2 PAL or NTSC). Whatever codec he chooses later has nothing to do with the way he captures tapes.

[Cornucopia]

If you are capturing lossless 4:2:2 10bit, that is about the best you could eek out of lofi consumer SD formats such as vhs, betamax, 8mm.

Lacking that option on modern Macs, your next best bet is ProRes. And you'll likely be using one of the higher forms of ProRes as intermediates converted from your cam footage.

Keep both in ProRes throughout the workflow through to edit master, then make more highly compressed consumer format copies (h264, h265 in mp4, etc) for distribution.

You'll need to decide how you want to incorporate your archival footage, as the cam should be putting out 1080p or similar, and the edit sequence/timeline will be that too, but the archival stuff doesn't start out that way.

So you could up-rez (upscale) and then pillarbox, or you could composite without up-rezzing and show in a smaller window, or really zoom up-rez and end up cropping top&bottom. Depends on the look you are trying to go for, your narrative, the context of the archival content, and its innate quality (or lack thereof). Be mindful also while doing that of probable interlacing issues (but your editor & compositor should know that).

Scott

[VideoVillageForever]

If you are capturing lossless 4:2:2 10bit, that is about the best you could eek out of lofi consumer SD formats such as vhs, betamax, 8mm.

Lacking that option on modern Macs, your next best bet is ProRes. And you'll likely be using one of the higher forms of ProRes as intermediates converted from your cam footage.

Keep both in ProRes throughout the workflow through to edit master, then make more highly compressed consumer format copies (h264, h265 in mp4, etc) for distribution.

You'll need to decide how you want to incorporate your archival footage, as the cam should be putting out 1080p or similar, and the edit sequence/timeline will be that too, but the archival stuff doesn't start out that way.

So you could up-rez (upscale) and then pillarbox, or you could composite without up-rezzing and show in a smaller window, or really zoom up-rez and end up cropping top&bottom. Depends on the look you are trying to go for, your narrative, the context of the archival content, and its innate quality (or lack thereof). Be mindful also while doing that of probable interlacing issues (but your editor & compositor should know that).

Scott

Scott,

Thank you for this breakdown.

Could you give me an ideal list of equipment that I should buy?

I know that I need a VCR that was back in the day, of broadcast quality or at least one that is high quality within the consumer spectrum.

A capture device is something that I'm looking for but there are so many options, I'm hoping someone who has experience with Macs can point me in the right direction for one of those.. For example, would the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle be a good fit for my workflow?

xx

[Eric-jan]

With the right equipment it does:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78838&hilit=video+guide
component video out (YUV) is the magic word, which saves you a lot of troubles, or more extra hardware, is my experience,
Best is to have a Mac or Macbook Pro from 2013 - 2015 which has still Thunderbold 2, the Intensity Shuttle comes 2 versions:
Thunderbold 2 or USB3, Thunderbold 2 is the fastest one of these two, all new MacBook Pro's have Thunderbold 3
or go for the PCI card version Intensity Pro for a (good)Windows PC.
Using ProRes422 LT works fine for VHS footage.
You should not buy the Intensity Shuttle to capture from composite or s-video, these outputs give bad video signal output,
There's nothing wrong with the quality of the Intensity Shuttle (or the Mac OS) it needs a stable video signal, which component video is most of the time,
Other options need old capture devices, old hardware, and a out of date OS to work with.

[dellsam34]

A capture device is something that I'm looking for but there are so many options, I'm hoping someone who has experience with Macs can point me in the right direction for one of those.. For example, would the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle be a good fit for my workflow?

With this setup you are just opening a giant can of worms, First Mac is a PITA to get it to work with a USB capture device, Second the BM IS doesn't work with consumer video sources, you will have to couple it with an external TBC to get it to lock on the video signal, such TBC is in the $700-$1000 range.

[Eric-jan]

A capture device is something that I'm looking for but there are so many options, I'm hoping someone who has experience with Macs can point me in the right direction for one of those.. For example, would the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle be a good fit for my workflow?

With this setup you are just opening a giant can of worms, First Mac is a PITA to get it to work with a USB capture device, Second the BM IS doesn't work with consumer video sources, you will have to couple it with an external TBC to get it to lock on the video signal, such TBC is in the $700-$1000 range.

If such a TBC would have a component input and output, it could be an option, but for what comes out of an composite or s-video output it's overkill indeed.
The combination capturing from component video and Intensity Shuttle/Pro does not need a TBC device.

[dellsam34]

If he has the option to add a PCIe expansion card on his mac and the motherboard is compatible with PCIe cards the option I explained above is the cheapest he can get, with the benefit of using pro hardware rather than consumer ones, A SDI PCIe card from BM or Aja is usually around $50 used and the BE75 a composite/S-Video/component capture box built in TBC is the most stable device I've ever tested so far and it is usually around $350 used but I've seen them go up to $900 on ebay but that's just a non realistic demand.

If no PCIe option is available a BM UltraStudio SDI to USB 3.0 adapter dongle can be used but they are little bit hot at the moment and they can be very expensive (around $300).

[lordsmurf]

If such a TBC would have a component input and output, it could be an option, but for what comes out of an composite or s-video output it's overkill indeed.
The combination capturing from component video and Intensity Shuttle/Pro does not need a TBC device.

You're talking nonsense ... again.
The carrier (composite, s-video, component) doesn't remove the need for TBC.

[Eric-jan]

If such a TBC would have a component input and output, it could be an option, but for what comes out of an composite or s-video output it's overkill indeed.
The combination capturing from component video and Intensity Shuttle/Pro does not need a TBC device.

You're talking nonsense ... again.
The carrier (composite, s-video, component) doesn't remove the need for TBC.

It works for me it's no nonsense for me

[lordsmurf]

It works for me it's no nonsense for me

And you've shown samples of your "works".
Your DVD recorder is digitizing the signal, not the capture card. And there are artifacts present.

It would look much better with a proper workflow.

[Eric-jan]

Youtube samples

[LMotlow]

If such a TBC would have a component input and output, it could be an option, but for what comes out of an composite or s-video output it's overkill indeed.
The combination capturing from component video and Intensity Shuttle/Pro does not need a TBC device.

You're talking nonsense ... again.
The carrier (composite, s-video, component) doesn't remove the need for TBC.

It works for me

No it doesn't. We've seen your videos.

it's no nonsense for me

Yes it is. We've seen your videos.

Youtube samples

Yep. Case closed.

[VideoVillageForever]

In my 1920's voice, "Now Now Boys... Let's Get Along..."

There seems to be a debate on whether the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle will work properly without a TBC...

I don't have the option for a PCIE Expansion Card on my Mac Book Pro.

All of this being said, can anyone give me a list of items that might be suited for a good workflow? For example, what would be a good type of VCR that I should be looking for?

I know there are a few different ways to skin a cat in this regard so I'm open to different workflow setups.

[Eric-jan]

My standpoint/experience* is: if you can capture from component video output, you don't need a TBC this way*, maybe only for removing the typical VHS dirt/noise a VHS tape recording comes with, this has nothing to do with the quality of the Intensity Shuttle,(which is a good device) this saves you render time using something like VirtualDub, VirtualDub is not available for the MAC OS.
A TBC will help if you want to capture over composite, to the Intensity Shuttle, s-video is only a lttle better... but i think it's overkill to use it for composite or s-video, the high price for such a device, if you can get one at all.... and not any random TBC will be the right one, plus you need to know "something" about a TBC.
Plus the MAC OS is a much more stable platform then Windows 10
Thunderbold 2 is the best option, without use of converters, or the USB3 version on a MAC.

[Cornucopia]

TBC stands for time-base corrector. It corrects WHATEVER signal is in need of it (assuming has support for appropriate connections & signaling protocols).
The question is: what kinds of signals need it?

Digital signals do not, as they are coded to provide both time stamping (helped by buffers to regulate the flow) and error correction. And are basically independent of their medium.

Analog signals all do, to a greater or lesser degree. Disc-based playback needs it much less than tape-based.
Some tapes need it more, due to looser (consumer?) tolerances or weaker servos & faulty/nonexistent feedback loops, or to stretching and other forms of tape wear, but ALL tapes need it.
Having worked in production & broadcasting, I know that it is expected that all tape outputs go through a TBC before editing, before mixing/compositing, before broadcast, and BEFORE DIGITIZING & COMPRESSION.
All. Doesn't matter the color system - composite, Y/C(s-video), component.
Remember, it is not trying to correct the format or level of the scanline signal, it is trying to correct the TIMING of it.

If you worked for a production company or broadcast facility that ignored those basic tenets, please let us know who they are, so that we can PUBLICLY SHAME THEM for unprofessional behavior. It you didn't, then you really don't know what you are talking about, and should NOT be giving others misinformation, anecdotal or otherwise.

Scott

[dellsam34]

A TBC will help if you want to capture over composite, to the Intensity Shuttle, s-video is only a lttle better... but i think it's overkill to use it for composite or s-video, the high price for such a device, if you can get one at all.... and not any random TBC will be the right one, plus you need to know "something" about a TBC.

If you are suggesting to use a VCR with component out he might still need a TBC for that BM IS device, Remember VHS is a Y/C on tape (2 component or S-Video) and just because the VCR is converting it to 3 component signal it doesn't mean it is timing it better. Though I have never used those HDMI/Component output VCR's, the quality is just not there, and I don't think a professional should be looking for them.

[Eric-jan]

Please read my previous posts (again) you did not read them good enough, is my guess... otherwise i must keep repeating myself....

[dellsam34]

Please keep repeating yourself because I have no clue what you need to repeat yourself for. If you are not suggesting a VCR with component out then are you suggesting a composite to component converter? doesn't that contradicts with your suggestion of not needing extra hardware? Please tell us how to get from VHS to component with no special VCR and no extra hardware:

component video out (YUV) is the magic word, which saves you a lot of troubles, or more extra hardware, is my experience,

[Eric-jan]

it just works with the Panasonic DMR-ES35V & Intensity Shuttle is my experience, don't ask me for other things which i did not try out.

btw... the Vestel RW200 will also work, but as passthrough, (has also component output) allthough this one will have some quality loss...

[dellsam34]

So you are suggesting a VCR with component out, It's up to the OP if he wants to use a consumer combo VHS/DVD for the task. I haven't tried such workflow but I can post samples of the hardware I suggested, let me dig up the link:

Lossless, no aspect ratio set.

Encoded Sample 6 lines trimmed off the bottom.

[Eric-jan]

So you are suggesting a VCR with component out, It's up to the OP if he wants to use a consumer combo VHS/DVD for the task. I haven't tried such workflow but I can post samples of the hardware I suggested, let me dig up the link:

Lossless, no aspect ratio set.

Encoded Sample 6 lines trimmed off the bottom.

These are your bad examples with interlace artifacts ? you also have the de-interlaced ones ?
The component output is already set to progressive with me.
https://we.tl/t-iDxPaXJUwF
this clip comes from a NTSC tape i have.
No trimming, only Prores422LT capture, and then compressed to MP4.

VideoVillageForever:
If SDI video input is available for recording at standard definition, on the equipment you use, the BlackMagic Design "Mini Converter Analog to SDI" could also be an option, best would be again: component video from the VCR (like the ES35V) but composite is also available on this BMD device, no capture would be needed, but i did not test this myself, because i don't use SDI myself, you could start a ticket at BlackMagic Design, for advise, they are the professionals for this.

(btw. a lot of combo's only offer component video out from the DVD player section.)

[orsetto]

To me, the biggest hurdle would be attempting to do any of this on a MacBook. Quite some time ago, Apple decided to split MacOS into the two extremes of use case: consumption-only for average folk with zero acquisition of material in mind at all, and semi-pro or pro purely digital contemporary origination formats. Support for the infinite variety of analog VHS>digital transfer workflows is practically nil, most of the devices once popular for Mac-based transfers were rendered worthless around the time of Yosemite. The majority of optimal capture devices, software and workflows heavily discussed by experienced users on VHS transfer threads require a (Pre-Win10) Windows PC to run, so discussions of Mac options have all but dried up.

Whichever OS you route the captures to, you'd need to choose the capture device, software to run it on, at least two excellent VCRs of different brands to handle tapes of unknown origin, and almost certainly a modern TBC. Most of this gear is now only available old and used, determining compatibility can be tricky, shopping for it can drag on for weeks. If you want the best results with the least possible hassle, consider contacting LordSmurf above or at DigitalFAQ. He's the de facto VideoHelp guru on VHS transfers, has done it professionally for years, and occasionally sells ready to go, refurbished and vetted, complete turnkey capture setups (VCR + Capture Unit + TBC). Or, you might have a conversation with him (or a comparable local pro facility) regarding cost/time estimate to have them do the transfers for you. Obtaining consistent-looking, top-level results suitable for a NetFlix-level documentary from a wide variety of random archival tapes is not a skill learned overnight. It can be done, but you'd need to budget time for the learning curve (and be prepared with backups when (not if) a key VCR fails).

The issues are somewhat comparable to undertaking a large project digitizing still film camera frames of various formats in high archival resolution. The most reliable workflow with the most available info involved dedicated film scanning devices, of which many are now broken down, unrepairable, old, expensive, run on long obsolete computer OSes, and a huge headache to learn how to operate for optimal results. If high-resolution DSLR and mirrorless digital still cameras with larger sensors and improved dynamic range hadn't finally turned up to allow makeshift alternatives, we'd be in trouble (and the "camera scanning" process is no walk in the park, either). As analog formats become more and more niche, the gear required to digitize them properly becomes older, harder to find, more obsolete, and harder to maintain. While a small steady need still exists for such products, the market just isn't there anymore to keep them in current production and update their software/firmware continually as Apple and Microsoft screw up their OSes every few months.

[Eric-jan]

well.... that helps.... how... ?

[orsetto]

well.... that helps.... how... ?

Just giving a quick overview perspective from someone who's been using both OSes forever.

OP is planning a commercial-grade project, significantly involving FCP and a Mac. Screwing around throwing random darts at a board in hopes of obtaining digitized VHS results at commercial documentary release level using current MacOS as input host can waste a lot of time and energy. MacBook and FCP works with origination files from current digital HDTV cams, no problem, but actually wrangling the output of an analog VHS vcr into digital form has not been a MacOS or Mac hardware forte in quite awhile. Anybody planning a large scale, pro-level DIY transfer project is going to have a much wider range of tools to choose from on Windows, with a vastly larger pool of experienced users to draw advice from. Once digitized at an acceptable level in a compatible format, the files can easily be imported into the MacBook and FCP. Cross-platform is sometimes the best approach in these cases.

MacBooks cannot be modified with analog video input expansion cards: all you've got is USB and whatever flavor of the month Thunderbolt port Apple feels like supporting this week. Many of the software solutions recommended for VHS capture and post work with USB devices do not run on current or recent MacOS. There are workarounds to get VHS captured direct to a Mac, but it isn't the best starting point if you aren't already familiar with it. Starting from scratch DIY, you'll find far more info and support for Windows-based VHS capture: its probably less of a headache to acquire a temporary Windows PC and go with the flow than fight the tide and try to do it all on the MacBook.

Thats why I suggested hitting up LordSmurf with a PM for his take on what hardware might be available for either OS. Its gonna be difficult enough to source the VCRs, never mind a capture device and probable TBC. Even if OP wants to follow Eric-jan's advice to the letter and use the component outs of a Panasonic combo unit, good luck finding one now in perfect condition. Whens the last time a flawless second-hand ES-35v or EZ-38v turned up in USA when you needed one? For a good ten years now, this hasn't been a task where you could just go to B&H website, order everything brand new for either computer OS, and have a complete workflow delivered to your door. Newcomers who aren't aware of this might think a variety of transfer-quality VCRs and Mac-optimized analog video encoder hardware are still commonly available new: they aren't, and its a project in itself to find some of these items in excellent condition.

To VideoVillageForever:

Sorry if we seem to be infighting or speaking gibberish too much. Its a very contentious subject. Leaving aside which computer OS you opt for, you asked about VCR, capture device, and ancillary gear recommendations. As you may have noticed perusing similar thread topics here, these recommendations haven't changed much since 2005 because nothing new has really been introduced since then (while much has been discontinued). The recommended JVC (several models) and Panasonic AG-1980 TBC/DNR equipped VCRs mostly date to before 2003. The recommended DataVideo TBC-1000 and AVT-8710 TBCs haven't been updated in fifteen years (and only the AVT is still occasionally available brand new).

The best analog video input boards for PCs go back fifteen years and were optimized for Win XP. A couple decent FireWire-connected encoders were available for Mac, now long gone and unsupported. Today there are about 5000 Chinese knockoffs of USB-connected analog video encoders, most of which are garbage. A few work OK with some Macs, more work well under Windows if you choose the right software to capture with. This is subject to change with the wind, as these dinky little USB pods change manufacturers (and driver compatibility) as often as Kim K changes her spanx. A couple of the older USB dongles by ATI are highest rated (All In Wonder, 600), current equivalents come and go (LordSmurf and other experts above track these model changes better than I do). The DataVideo or AVT TBC is often required for best results with a USB dongle. The Black Magic options are optimized for HD input, getting good SD results can be a challenge: if considering the Black magic route, be sure to run a search here for significant threads using terms like "Black Magic Intensity Pro VHS".

Transferring VHS-C typically entails putting the smaller cassette into a VHS adapter shell that allows playback in a standard vcr. Some adapter shells are better than others, there are thread topics devoted to this on several sites. Hi8 usually involves finding a compatible camcorder with decent output signal. This DigitalFAQ thread has the most complete list of VHS VCR model recommendations:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide.html

If you explore other threads there you'll find additional discussions of capture devices, software and TBC. Several contributors here also participate at DigitalFAQ, which is a bit more focused on these kinds of transfer projects.

[lingyi]

@VideoVillageForever

Your work is beyond the "Good enough." stage of most of those who post this type of question here. You NEED, as you stated: "Keeping this in mind, what is the best possible workflow that I could have for this?", as this is professional, potentially profitable project. Skimping on equipment and techniques isn't going to get you what you need.

Read these articles/threads from lordsmurf @ digitalfaq.com:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/editorials/digital-video/professional-analog-workflow.htm
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide.html

The investment and use of multiple VCRs is especially critical since you're dealing with multiple tape sources. Contact lordsmurf directly as he has much of the recommended equipment you'll need. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This isn't a stroke lordsmurf recommendation, but a fact that he's a reliable and trusted authority and source. Another trusted and reliable source is tgrantphoto.com (deter @ digitalfaq.com) who has the Panasonic AG-1980 and other highly recommended/regarded machines.

Note that you're talking about several thousands of dollars, but that can largely be recouped by reselling the equipment after you're done.

In addition, get and use a PC for the capture work as, as stated, capturing on a Mac is less than ideal. Again, working on a professional project requires the right equipment. Here's a good recent thread that discusses why a dedicated XP PC with a ATI AIW card may be the best capture setup: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-workflows/10432-capture-desktop-specification.html

Edit: Once you've completed the capture, you can transfer and work on the files on your Mac.

[dellsam34]

These are your bad examples with interlace artifacts ? you also have the de-interlaced ones ?
The component output is already set to progressive with me.
https://we.tl/t-iDxPaXJUwF
this clip comes from a NTSC tape i have.
No trimming, only Prores422LT capture, and then compressed to Mp4

The reason I trimmed off 6 lines of the bottom of the frame is because pro gear capture 486 lines so I get to almost get rid of all the VCR's head switch noise while preserving the legal resolution of 480 lines, you can't do that with consumer gear without having to mask it with black strip to keep the 480 lines. I de-interlace for final viewing but when giving a sample I prefer interlaced footage, with de-interlaced you don't show the native capture quality.

Edit:

The player in my previous post's links compresses on the fly, it is better to download the original file by choosing download option.

[lingyi]

Regarding Eric-Jan's comments. Whose advice would you take if you needed to repair your car? A professional mechanic (many of the posters other than Eric-Jan) or a backyard DIYer? Again, "Good enough." probably (I'd say emphatically not in your case) isn't what you need.

Edit: Note that the best answer that Eric-Jan can give are variations of 'It works for me.' vs 'This is how the Pros do it'.