Before you digitize that VHS tape, check the VHS VAULT first!

[babygdav]

https://archive.org/details/vhsvault

No point re-digitizing 20,000+ VHS tapes when it's been done and posted at Archive.org's library free.

[lingyi]

Yawn...

Like most of your posts, this is well known, poor quality and mostly pointless as the quality isn't even up to what's available on YouTube.

[babygdav]

this is well known, poor quality

1. Search of "vhs vault" on video help doesn't bring up any prior forum posts of note quickly.

2. And just like people listening to streaming music all day long and feeling satisfied even though there's hires flac, acceptable quality is up to the user. Same with original 4k uhd bluray vs "crappier" 4k tube versions, etc.

[dellsam34]

I don't know who or how those tapes are butchered into digital but I would rather watch a videoCD than that crappy quality, it hurts the brain.

[KarMa]

I don't know who or how those tapes are butchered into digital but I would rather watch a videoCD than that crappy quality, it hurts the brain.

The handful I looked at looked fine.

[lordsmurf]

poor quality and mostly pointless as the quality isn't even up to what's available on YouTube.

I don't know who or how those tapes are butchered into digital but I would rather watch a videoCD than that crappy quality, it hurts the brain.

My technical term for the average archive.org quality is "crap".

I refuse to insult my eyes and ears with that schlock. Maybe 1 in 20 videos, at most, has any degree of enjoyable quality. Seriously, sadly, I could do better with an Easycap and low-end VCR. Yikes!

In more recent years, a lot of stuff on archive.org is re-encoded from other sources, including Youtube. So it's double-butchered video. It's not uncommon to find WMV video conversions from 20 years ago, converted to VCD or Divx/Xvid, converting to Youtube Flash, then converted back to "MP4" (unspecified, sometimes H264 and sometimes not), as found on archive.org. The interlace, framerate, and audio compressed are reconverted to hell and back.

Meanwhile, the original retail tape is $2 on Amazon marketplace or eBay.

1. Search of "vhs vault" on video help doesn't bring up any prior forum posts of note quickly.

That's because it's not worth mentioning. It's like walking into a Italian restaurant, and announcing that you found a great deal on canned ravioli.

[dellsam34]

Not to mention that a lot of titles are on Blu-ray already like Toy Story.

[DB83]

I took a quick look. A pretty pointless archive when one sees titles such as 'Full Tape'


That Traci Lords tape was hot though

[lingyi]

Won't be long before DMCA claims hit and all those Disney and Nickelodeon videos are taken down. A quick look and many of the videos are beyond Fair Use.

[orsetto]

They were more useful some years ago, before they began re-converting everything to hell and back as LordSmurf mentioned.

Unfortunate that they've gotten so needlessly sloppy of late, because they do actually have some out-of-print or never-released 30s thru 60s rarities that the studios themselves now refuse to release in any form for various reasons (low demand, bungled copyright, plot now considered "not PC" for ridiculous "offenses" like a character repeatedly using the term "moron" in reference to an obviously fictional cartoonish oaf moron).

[Tom Saurus]

I appreciate when things go into the public domain. I also appreciate rarely seen these days shows I watched as a child such as "Rocket Robin Hood". I also remember "Max The 2000 Year Old Mouse" shorts they would show on a Saturday morning.

[lingyi]

@babygdav

I've been wondering about your attitude and motives behind your posts and have come to the conclusion is that you really a a baby, either physically and/or mentally as you seem your posts range from talking about utter trash videos like you've linked to here to extremely expensive software and hardware and dismiss technical techniques like masking as easy. Your attitude and mentality is "Look at me! I'm posting with the "big boys"! based on what you search for without practical knowledge or experienced as backup. Which is very immature and unappreciated here.

While there are those who may take the videos on the site above as "good enough", the majority of long time respected members here are consistent in their advice and sharing of knowledge to get the best quality from other posters videos. Your wavering from "fair" is good enough to "You can get the best if you get this expensive/difficult hardware and software", confuses the poster (and others who later read your "advice). Part of maturity and becoming a respected and trusted member (something which I'm still trying to become after 12+ years here) is to be consistent and knowledgeable about what you post.

Edit: A long time ago, my boss gave me one of the most sage bits of advice that I've ever heard. I thought my co-worker was so knowledgeable until she told me that it was only because of what I didn't know. Sure enough, I soon learned that my co-worker was making up half of what he said with nothing to back it up. Don't continue to be that guy!

[George53]

I checked the VHS VAULT first before digitizing.Greatly impressed by VHS vault.

[babygdav]

@babygdav
I've been wondering about your attitude and motives behind your posts and have come to the conclusion is that you really a a baby, either physically and/or mentally as you seem your posts range from talking about utter trash videos like you've linked to here to extremely expensive software and hardware and dismiss technical techniques like masking as easy.

1. You have the same variation in response from the others here.
When talking about the "best" way to digitize tapes, the ONLY scientific/numerical/hard way to verify a deck is properly calibrated and working is to use a vectorscope/waveform monitor.
All broadcast stations use them in order to verify calibration and operation of equipment output.

Yet....
"3. Fewer even use an accurate test tape with known recorded values and a vectorscope/waveform monitor to see what's going out of the player.
Now, if you're going to Ensure the best, I'd think:
Vhs broadcast deck with sdi output to scopes for verification of proper signal output using a test tape.
Anything connected after the player before the capture card gets verified by scope for proper signal transmission."

"Overkill. Even I don't do that."

Really? Verifying your player can and is outputting correctly to make the "best" video transfer means ignoring a basic verification of equipment test?

That's the "best" advice to be given by others?
Certainly inconsistent.

2. "Acceptable" quality is subjective.
Others in the world find this site useful, acceptable, useable.

It's exactly like the streaming media world - all those videos and audio "destroyed" by the reencoding into "crappy" Low bitrate Netflix and Spotify.....yet, millions happily pay and enjoy both. These users find the quality acceptable.

Plus, it doesn't take more than a dozen seconds to do a search, and for those that find such acceptable, they easily avoid the lengthy capture process.

...

Some items like https://archive.org/details/StarWarsCompendiumVhsRip
Simply come in no other form anywhere.

For a fan, great! Who cares about the quality etc because you'd otherwise never get to see such. A rare find and enjoyable.

3. Expensive equipment
"Best" sometimes requires such.
If the poster is asking for the "best" ways to do something, then a range of ideas can often go from $ to $$$$. They rarely start off posting a strict budget limit in their questions.

(Like the Twit.tv thread. How do you get "great" images? Well, you could get an Alexa Mini...... That would be Amazing, and some have the $20000+ podcasting budget - certainly top streamers get the revenue for that.)

4. Masking the background person out of a video.

Technically, I can sit down kids in junior high and they can learning the masking process well enough to complete the job to look great. 1-2 hours of training, mostly moving markers around. (IS THIS DIFFICULT? NO!) Nothing more than the 10 minute sample masking videos in ae, mocha, etc show really.

Poster never began with the statement "I'm technically inept and won't even try." So good advice that any adult who can do basic Home Depot level home repairs or ikea furniture assembly can do wasn't eventually the right answer because the poster didn't state that from the beginning.

But I did provide the simpler alternative at that time - Amazon's mechanical turk where people can be hired to do masking easily to get the job done quickly.

There are endless projects waiting to be done, but this isn't a "video hire" forum, it's a "video help" forum where help is provided to find the answer to one's questions, not endless free project work.

5. Often, there's multiple paths to getting the work done to the satisfaction of the poster.

This usually doesn't mean using the "best" way due to other limitations and considerations. (E.g. Can't help it when posters say they don't won't to get a better capture card working, but instead, they'll try a worse one!??)

If necessary, then the home page of videohelp ought to have a big lettered GO HERE FOR BEST WAYS TO.... Section where the best established ways to do ..... are written in guides for the beginners.

........

In the end, one forgets - the ENTIRE world happily watched analog tv for over 50 years using rabbit ear antennas, a signal that had bad snow, timing, rolling, noise, etc, and thought it was great.
Content is often more important to the enjoyment than the quality of the video.

[lordsmurf]

All broadcast stations use them in order to verify calibration and operation of equipment output.

Converting consumer-format videotapes isn't an activity of a broadcaster.

"Acceptable" quality is subjective.

I can't argue that. Some people want to eat dog food. Yum! But most of us would barf just by tasting it.

It's exactly like the streaming media world - all those videos and audio "destroyed" by the reencoding into "crappy" Low bitrate Netflix and Spotify.....yet, millions happily pay and enjoy both. These users find the quality acceptable.

Netflix isn't necessarily low bitrate when you consider the bit allocations. Same for digital music streams. The opposite of uncompressed is not an overcompressed lossy mess. The world is not simpleton binary. There is a middle ground. And that is precisely why folks are happy with it. I'm quite satisfied by Youtube at times, because the video was recorded and transferred properly. When people pay attention, comprehend, and don't argue, amazing things can happen.

3. Expensive equipment
"Best" sometimes requires such.
If the poster is asking for the "best" ways to do something, then a range of ideas can often go from $ to $$$$. They rarely start off posting a strict budget limit in their questions.

This is very true. But it's also true that too low of a budget cannot acquire what is needed for the task. Video is about hardware, the tools for the task. You cannot use just whatever the hell you want. It doesn't work that way. There are recipes for successful video conversions. Follow them. Don't argue it. And definitely do not whine about the costs, especially seeing as how you can buy the good equipment, use it, then resell it.

(Like the Twit.tv thread. How do you get "great" images?

You must be young. Go back several decades. I remember the classic photo joke, from the film/pre-digital era. There are many variations, and I forge the one I heard so long ago, but it is essentially like this: Kid and his dad are at some place/event, see a photographer (probably photojournalist) snapping shots. The kid says he wants to take great photos. So the dad as the photographer what he uses. The photog answers the dad. Then dad tells the kid he'll buy him one of those, so he can take great shots too. Because the hardware has all the skill? Right. While it is true that you need a baseline to achieve certain goals, the skill is in the person.

The inverse is also true, where a pricey tool is the wrong tool. You cannot just throw money at something. It doesn't work that way.

Only a newbie does not comprehend this.

4. Masking the background person out of a video.
Technically, I can sit down kids in junior high and they can learning the masking process well enough to complete the job to look great. 1-2 hours of training, mostly moving markers around. (IS THIS DIFFICULT? NO!) Nothing more than the 10 minute sample masking videos in ae, mocha, etc show really.

Pffft... no. Ridiculous. That video was not an easy task, nor quick to do, not even for somebody experienced in AE. And after further review, from a storytelling POV (rather than just technical), it's probably not needed.

There are endless projects waiting to be done, but this isn't a "video hire" forum, it's a "video help" forum

Straw man argument. Nobody offered to do the job -- neither free nor for pay.

5. Often, there's multiple paths to getting the work done to the satisfaction of the poster.

Yep.

This usually doesn't mean using the "best" way due to other limitations and considerations. (E.g. Can't help it when posters say they don't won't to get a better capture card working, but instead, they'll try a worse one!??)

This sort of nonsense statement reminds me of doctors. Everybody wants to have "the best" doctor. Nobody ever says "I want the cheapest doctor (even if I don't get the best care)". Because humans are competitive, and don't want to settle for the worst option. They will settle for lesser options, generally due to costs (be it greed, or fighting greed). Sometimes the problem with using crap is that people are falsely told (or just assume) that everything is "the same", and that the only difference is the price -- and that's just not reality. So it requires learning what is best, and not. And all degrees therein, what the nuanced differences are, and why those exist. And that's what many of us do at VH.

In the end, one forgets - the ENTIRE world happily watched analog tv for over 50 years using rabbit ear antennas, a signal that had bad snow, timing, rolling, noise, etc, and thought it was great.

No. Again, you must be young. I remember all the b!tching that would go on in the antenna era, and all the fiddling with rabbit ears and coax cables. I remember all the calls to the local analog cableco for bad signals. Or when satellite transponders were bitrate-crushed in the mid 2000s. And we still get it, for all the butchered crap you're suggesting in this thread, that re-encoding schlock found on sites like Youtube. You think we thought quality problems were great? No. Hell no.

Content is often more important to the enjoyment than the quality of the video.

Only up to a point. There is a fuzzy line between tolerating crap, and just watching/doing something else.

[LMotlow]

@babygdav
I've been wondering about your attitude and motives behind your posts and have come to the conclusion is that you really a a baby, either physically and/or mentally as you seem your posts range from talking about utter trash videos like you've linked to here to extremely expensive software and hardware and dismiss technical techniques like masking as easy.

1. You have the same variation in response from the others here.
When talking about the "best" way to digitize tapes, the ONLY scientific/numerical/hard way to verify a deck is properly calibrated and working is to use a vectorscope/waveform monitor.
All broadcast stations use them in order to verify calibration and operation of equipment output.

Yet....
"3. Fewer even use an accurate test tape with known recorded values and a vectorscope/waveform monitor to see what's going out of the player.
Now, if you're going to Ensure the best, I'd think:
Vhs broadcast deck with sdi output to scopes for verification of proper signal output using a test tape.
Anything connected after the player before the capture card gets verified by scope for proper signal transmission."

"Overkill. Even I don't do that."

Really? Verifying your player can and is outputting correctly to make the "best" video transfer means ignoring a basic verification of equipment test?

That's the "best" advice to be given by others?
Certainly inconsistent.

2. "Acceptable" quality is subjective.
Others in the world find this site useful, acceptable, useable.

It's exactly like the streaming media world - all those videos and audio "destroyed" by the reencoding into "crappy" Low bitrate Netflix and Spotify.....yet, millions happily pay and enjoy both. These users find the quality acceptable.

Plus, it doesn't take more than a dozen seconds to do a search, and for those that find such acceptable, they easily avoid the lengthy capture process.

...

Some items like https://archive.org/details/StarWarsCompendiumVhsRip
Simply come in no other form anywhere.

For a fan, great! Who cares about the quality etc because you'd otherwise never get to see such. A rare find and enjoyable.

3. Expensive equipment
"Best" sometimes requires such.
If the poster is asking for the "best" ways to do something, then a range of ideas can often go from $ to $$$$. They rarely start off posting a strict budget limit in their questions.

(Like the Twit.tv thread. How do you get "great" images? Well, you could get an Alexa Mini...... That would be Amazing, and some have the $20000+ podcasting budget - certainly top streamers get the revenue for that.)

4. Masking the background person out of a video.

Technically, I can sit down kids in junior high and they can learning the masking process well enough to complete the job to look great. 1-2 hours of training, mostly moving markers around. (IS THIS DIFFICULT? NO!) Nothing more than the 10 minute sample masking videos in ae, mocha, etc show really.

Poster never began with the statement "I'm technically inept and won't even try." So good advice that any adult who can do basic Home Depot level home repairs or ikea furniture assembly can do wasn't eventually the right answer because the poster didn't state that from the beginning.

But I did provide the simpler alternative at that time - Amazon's mechanical turk where people can be hired to do masking easily to get the job done quickly.

There are endless projects waiting to be done, but this isn't a "video hire" forum, it's a "video help" forum where help is provided to find the answer to one's questions, not endless free project work.

5. Often, there's multiple paths to getting the work done to the satisfaction of the poster.

This usually doesn't mean using the "best" way due to other limitations and considerations. (E.g. Can't help it when posters say they don't won't to get a better capture card working, but instead, they'll try a worse one!??)

If necessary, then the home page of videohelp ought to have a big lettered GO HERE FOR BEST WAYS TO.... Section where the best established ways to do ..... are written in guides for the beginners.

........

In the end, one forgets - the ENTIRE world happily watched analog tv for over 50 years using rabbit ear antennas, a signal that had bad snow, timing, rolling, noise, etc, and thought it was great.
Content is often more important to the enjoyment than the quality of the video.

Pure bull. Dreck from bad taste, crummy visual skills, and ignorance. Pretty common these days. Yet another strenuous effort at mediocrity trying to justify and glorify itself.

[ozymango]

Thanks for the link, babygdav. Certainly I understand that the quality of some of these transfers is variable, but hey they're free and if I want to get a better copy, I'm free to do so and I can ignore anything that doesn't really interest me.

Along those lines, for those forum members who are unaware of the "Ignore list" in your own profile, you can go into your profile settings and on the left side of the screen, towards the bottom, there's an option to "Edit Ignore List." Here you can easily add members to your list of people you just aren't interested in reading/listening to any more for any reason you decide. Check it out, you might be able to use it to your own advantage!

[Clockwork]

That Traci Lords tape was hot though

I won't disagree with that.

[lordsmurf]

Along those lines, for those forum members who are unaware of the "Ignore list" in your own profile, you can go into your profile settings and on the left side of the screen, towards the bottom, there's an option to "Edit Ignore List." Here you can easily add members to your list of people you just aren't interested in reading/listening to any more for any reason you decide. Check it out, you might be able to use it to your own advantage!

All this does is create an echo chamber. It fractures the forum, and conversations become stilted, contradictory, and sometimes downright odd. Members may feel unwanted and leave, and that's not good for the healthy survival of a site.

To use an "ignore list" is childish, essentially sticking fingers in ears and yelling "lalalala". Or for those weaker members of society who constantly need a "safe space" -- but I would argue that VH is already a "safe space" to discuss video.

Baldrick should disable this "feature" of the forum.

Everybody should be mature enough to truly participate in the conversations -- you know, the reason we even have online forums!

People need to learn that disagreement is fine. From disagreement can come some amazing new ideas, new discoveries. Right now, our society often lacks that, with everybody so hyper-politicized and living in self-contained bubbles. But some places needs to resist that stubbornness, especially places like this, where members (attempt to) stick to facts and science.

[DB83]

I'll add that even members who claim to keep an ignore list (yours truly is on it) but still reads, and replies, to the posts. Hardly ignoring someone.

[ParadiseKendra]

Wow, thank you so much for sharing! I can't wait to take a look! I have so many VHS tapes to transfer... the proper way...when I figure out how... *yikes*