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  1. The point about dvd-r being more compatible than the other types is correct. More dvd drive and player made are compatible with the -r standard, fewer with dvd+r or dl.

    ...

    Gold discs are recommended to help increase the longevity. This is an archival recommendation.
    Mitsui Gold have been around over a decade and have proved to last longer than regular discs in general. Naturally, storage, humidity, temperature, light exposure all significantly affect longevity.

    ...
    https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sanyo_vhr_277_ms.html
    23 year old vhs decks.
    Realistically? Those tapes won't likely be getting much more than simple DV quality output....for his likely budget and complexity level.

    S-vhs deck with svideo into analog capture card or canopus into firewire card is likely the cheap, good method chosen.

    Yes, there's always better to squeeze more blah out of home videos on vhs, but what's the budget?

    You can always go crazy and use a broadcast s-vhs deck with sdi output (Even higher quality than s-video) into a pricey sdi capture card on a pc....

    But really? Most home consumers will see the s-video difference, but are they willing to pay for the marginal sdi difference? On such old tapes not likely to look much different given the recording quality of consumer recording devices 23+ years ago, especially if they happen to be recorded in even poorer elp/lp mode vs sp mode.

    It's like asking for 8K scans of ancient 8mm home film made decades ago. The 8mm camera and tape alone aren't going to give 8K worth of real detail.


    Minimum specs isn't important at all except to confirm the modern pc he likely has is more than capable.

    Doesn't matter that one day we have win7, then tomorrow there's win8., then now win10. Absolutely no issues capturing vhs into a win10 pc today with compatible capture cards.
    Image Attached Thumbnails n059.pdf  

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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    Eh, you guys are being just a little too hard
    these environments could have cared less as long as the job got done..
    Too hard? Not really. Quality matters. Not caring is an excuse, not a reason.

    The nits you're picking are matters of semantics and interpretation: the article is obviously pitched to midlevel bureaucrats and their poor assistants who indeed would not know what the hell a dropped frame is, which is why they gloss it as "loss of content".
    I disagree. The term "dropped frames" is in almost every software package for capturing. Whereas "loss of content" is literally a phrase I have never heard, plucked directly from the author's keister.

    This primer was almost certainly compiled around 2004 and not updated after 2010.
    It was a post-2010 writing.

    Originally Posted by babygdav View Post
    The point about dvd-r being more compatible than the other types is correct. More dvd drive and player made are compatible with the -r standard, fewer with dvd+r or dl.
    No.

    DVD-R vs. DVD+R compatibility is only true if you consider all discs and drives since the infancy of the format.

    However drives have short lifespans, with most sputtering out in about 5 years. People often worry about how long a disc will last, but the question should be how long reader devices will last. I've actually trashed more DVD-ROMs/burners/players than I have discs.

    So if you only look at the past decade worth of discs/drives for compatibility (2010-2019), you'll be hard-pressed to find any meaningful different. And a 10-year window is far more accurate than a compatibility rating that includes DVD-R(A) and early non-Ricoh DVD+R from the turn of the century, some 20 years ago.

    Gold discs are recommended to help increase the longevity. This is an archival recommendation.
    Mitsui Gold have been around over a decade and have proved to last longer than regular discs in general. Naturally, storage, humidity, temperature, light exposure all significantly affect longevity.
    No.

    Gold is less reflective than silver alloys (at the nm used for DVD burning/reading). That result in discs that are less readable. The end. Because science.

    Gold makes for pretty jewelry, but worthless DVDs. It was pure marketing, and lost to M-Disc (which is also not that great).

    BTW, Mitsui has not existed for many years now. MAM bought it. And MAM is a small-fry nobody that is likely currently hemorrhaging market share of the optical media market.

    S-vhs deck with svideo into analog capture card or canopus into firewire card is likely the cheap, good method chosen.
    Yes, there's always better to squeeze more blah out of home videos on vhs, but what's the budget?
    No.

    Most people spend $$$ getting a DV box, or an HD card, but those funds should have been put towards better VCRs/TBCs. Then get a quality capture card for under $100. Quality doesn't cost extra, spending on the wrong item is what tanks budgets.

    You can always go crazy and use a broadcast s-vhs deck with sdi output (Even higher quality than s-video) into a pricey sdi capture card on a pc....
    Broadcast S/VHS decks are terrible. Those are often SP only, and at this late date, run into the ground. Quality was probably neither good when it was new, nor now, as it is the wrong tool for a consumer format. Simply saying "S-VHS" and "SDI" doesn't determine quality of the equipment, nor proper case use.

    But really? Most home consumers will see the s-video difference
    Yes, they do indeed.

    On such old tapes not likely to look much different given the recording quality of consumer recording devices 23+ years ago, especially if they happen to be recorded in even poorer elp/lp mode vs sp mode.
    EP/LP mode is not necessary worse than SP. Mode has very little to do with that, and it's more about the recording deck. Some decks made gorgeous SLP tapes, and you'll be hard-pressed to tell if SP or SLP.

    It's like asking for 8K scans of ancient 8mm home film made decades ago. The 8mm camera and tape alone aren't going to give 8K worth of real detail.
    Left field comment. Nobody here is suggesting upscaling VHS. It's a terrible idea. Analogy does not apply. There is no overlap with discussing lossless or non-DV (retaining quality) vs. trying to "improve" it (noting upscaling VHS almost always downgrades quality).

    Doesn't matter that one day we have win7, then tomorrow there's win8., then now win10. Absolutely no issues capturing vhs into a win10 pc today with compatible capture cards.
    And each successive OS became more capture-unfriendly. For video, Win10 is a nightmare.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 31st Jan 2020 at 01:32.
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  3. Since OP hasn't returned, I expect we scared him enough to tell his relatives "fuggedaboudit".

    FWIW, I wasn't 'defending' that Canadian paper in terms of what we discuss in forums like this, just placing it in its proper context as bureaucratic BS. On that score, its better than average for the type, but is a non-sequitur in our own usual sandbox. Re the date: they could have slapped "2014" on it at any point to make it look like it was being refreshed, but the references and hardware pictures belie that date. However the "author" compiled it, most of it appears to have been written early-mid-00s. Interesting to me as a curiosity, but nothing more (imagine how much worse the USA version probably is).
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    As shown by his/her posts in other threads, he/she selectively chooses and regurgitates info that he/she thinks is relevant without an understanding of the subject. I seriously doubt he/she has ever done any video capturing at all.

    It's obvious he/she is just throwing about "facts" that are easily proven outdated or false as thankfully lordsmurf is doing.

    Here's an example from this thread https://forum.videohelp.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2572176 of his/her very selective editing of facts:

    Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    Originally Posted by babygdav View Post
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/189181-DVD-to-UNCOMPRESSED-avi
    Past suggestions for converting to lossless format.

    https://siarchives.si.edu/what-we-do/digital-curation/digital-video-preservation

    The Smithsonian says for archiving videos:
    "Create uncompressed video if possible. This does create large files but they retain their quality. Storage also needs to be considered with this approach however.
    If uncompressed video is not possible, use lossless instead of lossy compression. The compressed data gets restored while lossy compression alters data and quality is lost."
    Okay, Iʻve reopened the floodgates and have to comment once again that you are once again ignoring the point of this thread and misunderstanding the needs of the OP.

    Converting a DVD to uncompressed does nothing, nada, zip, zero to [DVD/mpeg2] video except make it larger since itʻs already highly compressed. Waiting for lordsmurf to prove me wrong once again with his super smurfy eyes and techniques!
    It does have a use when editing since the quality loss will be less since youʻre working with an uncompressed vs compressed source (uncompressed from mpeg2 vs mpeg2).

    Youʻve once again selectively cut and pasted information to fit your argument, bordering on deliberately misleading the reader. My emphasis:

    There are some steps though that content creators shooting video can consider to ensure better accessibility and preservation in the long term.

    Create uncompressed video if possible. This does create large files but they retain their quality. Storage also needs to be considered with this approach however.

    If uncompressed video is not possible, use lossless instead of lossy compression. The compressed data gets restored while lossy compression alters data and quality is lost.

    Use higher bit rates (affects resolution of image and size of file.)

    Use technical and descriptive metadata.

    Use containers and codecs that are stable and widely used within the community."

    https://siarchives.si.edu/what-we-do/digital-curation/digital-video-preservation
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  5. Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    Since OP hasn't returned, I expect we scared him enough to tell his relatives "fuggedaboudit".
    I always think of this forum as the online equivalent of a bunch of frat guys hanging out, playing "Pink Floyd" and "Led Zeppelin" LPs (with a color organ hanging on the wall) while arguing about which turntable REALLY captures the existential nuances of the music. And there's always that one guy in the corner with headphones on. And who gets that last slice of pizza. I think that'd be Lord Smurf.
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  6. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    For video, Win10 is a nightmare.
    Not for those of us with advanced computer skills.

    P.S. and disclaimer: I only come here for the frat house interaction, I haven't watched or transferred a VHS tape in years.
    Last edited by ozymango; 31st Jan 2020 at 15:07.
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  7. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ozymango View Post
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    For video, Win10 is a nightmare.
    Not for those of us with advanced computer skills.

    P.S. and disclaimer: I only come here for the frat house interaction, I haven't watched or transferred a VHS tape in years.
    Since you haven't transferred a tape in years how do you know how hard is capturing with Windows 10, I disagree with Lordsmurf sometimes but he is right about capturing in Wind 10 environment, No matter how advanced your computer skills are, Wind 10 is a bitch for capturing with a wide variety of capture cards and devices.
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  8. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Since you haven't transferred a tape in years how do you know how hard is capturing with Windows 10, I disagree with Lordsmurf sometimes but he is right about capturing in Wind 10 environment, No matter how advanced your computer skills are, Wind 10 is a bitch for capturing with a wide variety of capture cards and devices.
    Dude (or ma'am), I really don't care about your Windows 10 skills -- I work on and with computers for a living, I get paid to keep several hundred PCS alive and kicking under various conditions, and if needs fixing, I fix it. If you and/or Lord Smurf can't make things work for you on these systems, again I don't care -- you do what you like. I was being tongue-in-cheek when I said I hadn't done this stuff in years -- I don't do it much anymore because I don't need to, that's all. If somebody needs a videotape transferred and they ask me for help, I help them, usually at no charge because hey, I'm doing this because I enjoy the work, I like helping people, and I've dealt with and deal with really fun-to-work-with people like you and Lord Smurf all the time. I just smile mostly and just do what needs doing because, really, I'm doing this for my entertainment, not yours.

    I can make things work that are a bitch for you. So what.
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  9. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ozymango View Post
    Dude (or ma'am), I really don't care about your Windows 10 skills -- I work on and with computers for a living, I get paid to keep several hundred PCS alive and kicking under various conditions, and if needs fixing, I fix it. If you and/or Lord Smurf can't make things work for you on these systems, again I don't care -- you do what you like. I was being tongue-in-cheek when I said I hadn't done this stuff in years -- I don't do it much anymore because I don't need to, that's all. If somebody needs a videotape transferred and they ask me for help, I help them, usually at no charge because hey, I'm doing this because I enjoy the work, I like helping people, and I've dealt with and deal with really fun-to-work-with people like you and Lord Smurf all the time. I just smile mostly and just do what needs doing because, really, I'm doing this for my entertainment, not yours.

    I can make things work that are a bitch for you. So what.

    Who cares what you do and how much you charge or you enjoy it or not, All this is irrelevant to the topic, we are talking about the majority of people who used Wind 10 and had problems with for capturing based on the threads they posted in different A/V forums, If you happen to be in the field good for you, but don't make it sounds like it's everyone else's fault for not having an IT degree to use a computer.
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  10. People must be unlucky or using obsolete equipment for capture.

    https://hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_usblive2.html#overview
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/

    Https://www.bandh.com

    Honestly, buy a modern capture device that's designed to work with win10, from a good company with good support, and it'll generally work fine with much trouble.

    Even a basic firewire card generally works easily
    http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/how_to/How-to-set-up-firewire-OHCI-1394-DV-PA...-in-Windows-10

    Honestly, not amazing folks. Hollywood would come to a grinding halt if windows 10 couldn't do all the basics of capture and ingest.
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  11. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    This is a repeating cycle, people go buy a $11 USB capture device and they start complaining about dropped frames, weird noise patterns ...etc. Then get suggestions of using legacy capture devices that proven to work fine with at least Win7, then they come back complaining about the compatibility problems with windows 10, this happened over and over and over again.

    Professional capture devices are not made for VHS signal, they are made for clean broadcast signal, With a good VCR, clean tape and an external TBC you can get away with those $300 plus capture devices, but if one has Windows 7 a $60 capture card can do the same job if not better.

    I do capture in Windows 10 with no problems using BE75->SDI->SDItoUSB3.0 -> Wind10 PC but is everyone willing to fork that much money on broadcast grade equipment ? I highly doubt it, We are talking about the majority of the crowd not special cases.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 31st Jan 2020 at 22:01.
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  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    Since OP hasn't returned, I expect we scared him enough to tell his relatives "fuggedaboudit".
    Sometimes folks just lurk.

    FWIW, I wasn't 'defending' that Canadian paper in terms of what we discuss in forums like this, just placing it in its proper context as bureaucratic BS. On that score, its better than average for the type, but is a non-sequitur in our own usual sandbox. Re the date: they could have slapped "2014" on it at any point to make it look like it was being refreshed, but the references and hardware pictures belie that date. However the "author" compiled it, most of it appears to have been written early-mid-00s. Interesting to me as a curiosity, but nothing more (imagine how much worse the USA version probably is).
    I don't disagree with any of that.
    Most likely the author just swiped info, not really knowing anything about the topic, and did not vet accuracy of the information/sources. That happens a lot. In fact, it happens now, with our own government. Ugh.

    Originally Posted by ozymango View Post
    I always think of this forum as the online equivalent of a bunch of frat guys hanging out, playing "Pink Floyd" and "Led Zeppelin" LPs (with a color organ hanging on the wall) while arguing about which turntable REALLY captures the existential nuances of the music. And there's always that one guy in the corner with headphones on.
    Sometimes conversations get that way. But a lot of them are "how do I convert my recorded to cassette, with best quality (but using my cheap YNOS knockoff walkman)", or maybe "how do I copy my record to another record", or even "which disco LP is best". Most of us groan, roll eyes. Some of us answer, some just mock the questions. We'd rather nitpick what we enjoy.

    I'm more interested in thread that compare Avisynth filters, pixel peeing the nuances differences, than yet another "help me copy" post. (But I do answer what I know about, even if for the zillionth time).

    Originally Posted by ozymango View Post
    And who gets that last slice of pizza. I think that'd be Lord Smurf.
    Whoa. Dude. I'm eating pizza right now. (Something I rarely do.)

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    No matter how advanced your computer skills are, Wind 10 is a bitch for capturing with a wide variety of capture cards and devices.
    As jwillis often points out, there is no Windows 10. No, this isn't a spoon thing, ie The Matrix. Win10 is like OS X. Win10 isn't Win10, but rather different OS with a shared core name. Every years, 1-2 times, an update changes how it functions at the core.

    You may as well be Ralph Wiggum, and simply say "I use a computer!", for the good that "I use Win10!" is.

    Originally Posted by babygdav View Post
    Honestly, buy a modern capture device that's designed to work with win10, from a good company with good support, and it'll generally work fine with much trouble.
    If only such a device existed. (Blackmagic? Pffft. No. Not for VHS.)

    Honestly, not amazing folks. Hollywood would come to a grinding halt if windows 10 couldn't do all the basics of capture and ingest.
    <sigh> "Hollywood" doesn't capture/ingest VHS.

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    This is a repeating cycle, people go buy a $11 USB capture device and they start complaining about dropped frames, weird noise patterns ...etc. Then get suggestions of using legacy capture devices that proven to work fine with at least Win7, then they come back complaining about the compatibility problems with windows 10, this happened over and over and over again.
    Yep.

    Professional capture devices are not made for VHS signal, they are made for clean broadcast signal, With a good VCR, clean tape and an external TBC you can get away with those $300 plus capture devices, but if one has Windows 7 a $60 capture card can do the same job if not better.
    Yep.

    And to bring the conversation back on-topic, good VCR is required. Essential. The most important pieces of gear in a VHS capture workflow. Without a quality VCR in use, you're in for a world of hurt trying to capture anything. At minimum, quality will suffer. At worst, capturing is disallowed.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 17th Feb 2020 at 22:23. Reason: typos
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