How to describe this video problem???

[RichinTheUSA]

I'm trying to capture video from my VCR into an EasyCap (yeah, I know) which is plugged into my Linux box running OBS.

How would you describe the video? It seems to go out of sync... with color loss, as well as red/blue horizontal lines, and occasional white flicker. Then all of the sudden everything seems to come into sync... and the video looks great. Then, it goes back to being crappy.

Is there appropriate terminology to describe the problems I'm seeing?

Btw, that happens on multiple tapes, and playing from various VCRs. I also have played the VHS tapes on a TV... and there the video looks great (I don't see the problems).

Any guidance on the encoding settings to address this?

Thanks in advance.

[babygdav]

1. You've activated macrovision copy protection detection.
You'll need one of those boxes that strip macrovision from the cable signal.

2. Time base correction needed.
Tape info drifts, resulting in video that goes out of sync.
There are vcr decks with tbc to fix that.

[RichinTheUSA]

Thanks for this info. I have noticed that when I play a VCR tape and display it on a TV, the picture looks good. Could it be that my TV has time based correction in it?

When I have the video play into my capture device... that's when I see the artifacts. Could it be that I also just have a crappy capture device?

I did try to plug the Vidoe OUT of a VCR into the IN of another VCR, hoping it would adjust.... then have the OUT of the second VCR go to my capture device. Mixed results.

Anyhow, I appreciate you replying. At least I now know what to search for to find solutions.!!

[Brad]

In between the source and capture device, place one of the DVD recorders typically recommended for passthrough TBC on these forums, and the problem should magically go away.

I can't find one of the threads where the posted problem looked the same as yours, but here's one that looks even worse solved by Panasonic DMR-ES15: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news/10162-capture-problem-hi8.html#post65128

1. You've activated macrovision copy protection detection.
You'll need one of those boxes that strip macrovision from the cable signal.

No. It's clearly a home movie, and Macrovision doesn't cause this type of effect.

[Budman1]

If its a commercial tape or a copy of one, VHS tapes had that copyguard feature a while back, where every other sync pulse was removed. It plays havoc with a VCR speed adjust but when played on TV, the Vertical and Horizontal hold feature corrected for it. I had a box back then , (http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~daz2002/tech/Video/index.html) but can't remember its name now, that you adjusted to put the missing pulses back in to copy these tapes.

[lingyi]

As always, someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

First, it's clearly a home video.

Second, it's not Macrovision. Macrovision messed with the AGC (Automatic Gain Control) when a tape signal was sent from one VCR to another and caused the recorded picture to lose sync and roll. If you look a the Vertical Sync area of a Macrovision tape, you'd see white boxes slowly go from white to black, which confuses the AGC circuity in the recording VCR. Playback direcly to a TV is unaffected because TV AGC is more tolerant of imperfect signals. Here's Macrovision in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD0qiknSYyk. The flicker is because he's recording with a video camera .

Third, Macrovision Removers/Video Stabilizers didn't add anything to the signal. They stripped, often poorly, the vertical sync signal and replaced it. Which is why external TBCs can remove Macrovision.

"Standalone, External Full-Frame TBC:

A good recent-era standalone external time base corrector will:
reduce visual on-screen image jitter (mild up/down image bounce)
overwrite "dirty" signal areas with new clean ones --- understanding these areas are often used by anti-copy, which of course is an artificial video error -- and understanding this is not going to visually improve the signal, but rather only prevent image quality issues (as seen on a TV or capture device) caused by false detection of anti-copy, such as Macrovision
and provide a steady signal that prevents dropped frames on capture cards, or premature recording stop on DVD recorders

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html#ixzz6CDQqGQhl"

Fourth, the issue seen in the OP's video is likely one or a combination of a damaged tape, bad VCR or bad capture device, definitely at least this as any EasyCap, even the real ones are poor quality devices.

[lordsmurf]

My input was requested. So here goes...

I'm trying to capture video from my VCR into an EasyCap (yeah, I know)

Well, at least you know.

How would you describe the video?

"THE SKY IS FALLING! RAINBOWS ARE FALLING FROM THE SKY, AND HITTING THE GROUND! RUN OF YOU LIFE! AHHHH! ... Oh wait, here comes a nice lady with food! I like rainbows anyway. Food! <nom, nom, nom>"

It seems to go out of sync...

It has a ton of dropped frames. So bad that you can see it with your eyes.

Is there appropriate terminology to describe the problems I'm seeing?

The technical jargon is "crap".
The underlying issue is likely the EZcrap card itself. I don't think the video is bad, causing dropped frames, but rather dropped frames are causing data integrity issues within the card or at preview. It's seen all sorts of issues with that POS hardware, and I've seen something similar before.

1. You've activated macrovision copy protection detection.

Yes. The Macrovision does not exist, it's a false positive, triggering devices to act not-nice and mess up the signal. It is due to the detection, even if the detection is dumb and wrong.

You'll need one of those boxes that strip macrovision from the cable signal.

No. A TBC is needed. Probably line TBC for the visual issues, but that crappy card will also have issues without frame TBC. As always, you need both. Those silly "removers" or "clarifiers" do not remove/ignore the MV (or false MV). It's not that simple.

2. Time base correction needed.

Yes.

Tape info drifts, resulting in video that goes out of sync.

I think you've worded it badly. The "tape" is fine, but the contents once record digital have drifted (due to dropped frames, which almost always drop video frames but not the audio samples).

There are vcr decks with tbc to fix that

Yes. It's why this list exists: VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for capturing videotapes

In between the source and capture device, place one of the DVD recorders typically recommended for passthrough TBC on these forums, and the problem should magically go away.

Not just any DVD recorder, specific models, namely the ES10/15 units. It may go away, it may not, DVD recorders are not, and do not contain, full TBCs. More like "TBC(ish)" in action and behavior. It's better than nothing, should help with something sometimes. But not at all bulletproof to the error.

@vaporeon800: I know you know that. Mostly adding/clarifying for the OP.

No. It's clearly a home movie, and Macrovision doesn't cause this type of effect.

The keyword was "detection", not that it had actual MV.

If you look a the Vertical Sync area of a Macrovision tape, you'd she white boxes slow go from white to black, which confuses the AGC circuity in the recording VCR.

Sometimes. MV has different versions, and MV wasn't the only anti-copy.

Playback direcly to a TV is unaffected because TV AGC is more tolerant of imperfect signals.

For CRTs. With HDTVs, maybe, maybe not.

Third, Macrovision Removers/Video Stabilizers didn't add anything to the signal. They stripped, often poorly,

Yep, useless.

Fourth, the issue seen in the OP's video is likely one or a combination of a damaged tape, bad VCR or bad capture device, definitely at least this as any EasyCap, even the real ones are poor quality devices.

Yep, entirely it.

I'm amused that 3 people are disagreeing, yet not actually disagreeing.

@vaporeon800: Remind you of any recent threads?

[lingyi]

To add. The most common Macrovision effect, at least the one I remember was that the video would go from slowly from light to dark, then back again. If you adjusted the horizontal hold so you could see the VBI, you'd see the pattern matched the transitions of the white blocks.

Useless trivia: Interestingly, at least to me, most Betamax machines weren't affected by Macrovision because the AGC circuity in them was different from VHS. So I could copy a VHS tape to Beta and the copy would still have the Macrovision signal intact. If I tried to copy the tape back to VHS, the Macrovision would kick in.

Prior to Macrovision, there was CopyGuard, which is why I never refer to Macrovision as CopyGuard. Copyguard also worked by embedding a signal into the VBI, but was too far out of spec, causing some playback issues even when played back directly on a TV. Again, Betamax machines were largely immune to the signal, so I don't remember exactly the effect was. I think it was sever tearing of the top of the video. Because of the differences between Copyguard and Macrovision, early on you had have to two types of "video stabilizers". One for CopyGuard and one for Macrovision. Later models claimed to work for both, but rarely did a good job on either protection.

[johnmeyer]

Definitely not Macrovision. Note how the date/time display stays pretty steady. If you copied from a Macrovision-protected tape, you either got massive horizontal waviness, or vertical sync roll, like the vertical hold adjustment (in an old CRT TV set) was off. Also, since it is obviously not a commercial tape, there is zero chance that Macrovision is involved.

The chroma is definitely the main issue. TBC might help. TBC isn't a fix for everything and, depending on the TBC, can actually make things worse. Usually, however, it fixes a lot of issues. If you have it, try it.

If the tapes really and truly play just fine on a TV set, and the only problem is when you attempt to capture them, then it sure sounds like a problem with a capture system that hasn't been adjusted properly. However, you should look again at the video on the TV set to make sure it really is playing OK. I've been fooled before, when transferring lots of tapes, where I thought they looked OK on the screen only to find out later that I was remembering a different tape.

Also, make sure you go through all the settings on your VCR. If this is a 6-hour mode tape, take a look at the VCR menu and play with the settings that are designed to "fix" problems with the 6-hour mode. My JVC decks have this feature, and enabling it sometimes helps, and sometimes makes things work better. From the manual of my S4500U: "By activating the Video Stabilizer you can correct vertical vibrations in the picture when playing back unstable EP recordings that were made on another VCR."

You should also make sure the "Tape Dub Mode" is activated. Sometimes it is called an Edit feature. Look at the manual for your VCR.