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  1. Hi there,

    I have a rather large collection of movies, TV series and anime in DVD and Blu-Ray formats. I would to rip them in a lossless format with little hassle as possible, so if this means paying for a software, then let it be. For TV and anime, I would need a software that would know when an episode starts and ends and name every episodes appropriately. For anime, I need to be able to select the audio format that I prefer and have the subtitles included. Finally, I need the software to work with any disc region.

    So, any recommendations?

    Thank you
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  2. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    i'd try makemkv . it may not meet all your expectations, but it's about as close as you are going to get.

    as for disc region that's strictly up to your drive.
    --
    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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  3. Originally Posted by the_importer007 View Post
    I would to rip them in a lossless format with little hassle as possible
    This is a joke, right? They're already in as lossless a format as they'll ever be.
    For TV and anime, I would need a software that would know when an episode starts and ends and name every episodes appropriately.
    Those are called menus.
    I need to be able to select the audio format that I prefer and have the subtitles included.
    DVD Decrypter, among others, allows you to deselect the audio streams and subtitle languages you don't want. I'm sure there's something similar for Blu-Rays, maybe the MakeMKV that aedipuss mentioned.
    Finally, I need the software to work with any disc region.
    A proper decrypt removes all region restrictions.

    I think - unless there's some particular reason you no longer want to play the disks - you're wasting your time. You certainly won't be able to shrink the video size if you insist on lossless.
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  4. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I'll echo the above.

    There are two important words here both of which you might have different ideas as to their meaning.

    1. 'Rip' - that really means a bit for bit transfer of all the files from a disk-based source to another medium.
    2. 'Lossless' - closely related to 'rip' inasmuch you retain the format and the qualities as they were on that disk.

    Anything else is not a rip but a re-encode. Then you can select your format and the codec you use. In that scenario 'lossless' describes the codec and your 'rips' will be considerably larger than the original disk-based versions (certainly for dvd)

    There was a topic a few weeks ago that actually discussed the automatic naming of chapters or titles from a disk. Such software does not exist.
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  5. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I'll echo the above.

    There are two important words here both of which you might have different ideas as to their meaning.

    1. 'Rip' - that really means a bit for bit transfer of all the files from a disk-based source to another medium.
    2. 'Lossless' - closely related to 'rip' inasmuch you retain the format and the qualities as they were on that disk.

    Anything else is not a rip but a re-encode. Then you can select your format and the codec you use. In that scenario 'lossless' describes the codec and your 'rips' will be considerably larger than the original disk-based versions (certainly for dvd)

    There was a topic a few weeks ago that actually discussed the automatic naming of chapters or titles from a disk. Such software does not exist.
    Well to be more precise, I'll use audio as an example. FLAC is considered a Lossless audio codec, so I'm looking for the equivalent for a video format where the results will look as good as playing the original disc.
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  6. Originally Posted by the_importer007 View Post
    Well to be more precise, I'll use audio as an example. FLAC is considered a Lossless audio codec, so I'm looking for the equivalent for a video format where the results will look as good as playing the original disc.
    1. There are 2 different things going on here.
    a. Ripping the discs to the PC in the "original video and audio" quality and format.
    This is easily accomplished with:
    i. Anydvd + Simply copying the entire discs contents to a folder on your computer.
    ii. Anydvd and use it's ISO function to copy the entire disc out.
    iii. MakeMKV and convert the file format (but leave the video/audio untouched) into a single MKV.
    etc.
    NOTE: BluRay and UHD 4K BluRay will require additional hardware/software to properly decrypt.
    (eg. DVDFab, https://deuhd.ru/, etc + 4K UHD compatible bluray drive for ripping (see specs for models))
    b. Conversion of those original Video/Audio formats to a lossless codec.
    i. no idea why, but it can be done. Doing so WILL NOT IMPROVE the video or audio quality at all vs. the straight ISO/VOB/MKV/etc. rip because changing from a LOSSY format BACK to a LOSSLESS format does NOTHING IN RECOVERING any data lost during the original mastering process to DVD/Bluray.
    ii. The video/audio will look and sound 100% identical to the lossy formats you've ripped the discs in, only they'll take up A WHOLE LOT MORE SPACE on the drive.

    2. Now, as for the conversion, any video editor can easily export to uncompressed MOV/AVI/etc + uncompressed PCM/WAV/FLAC/etc.
    Simply drop the movie into the timeline, export using lossless codecs, and that's it.

    As for the rest like subtitles, chapter markers, etc, etc. - No idea. Usually, these uncompressed formats do not have any support for such (but common formats like MKV/MP4 do for example, which is why most rip into MKV if they want to retain most of the disc features without too much work).

    3. As for ripping discs in #1 with auto-naming of chapters, etc., no idea if you're ripping to MKV/MP4/etc. Haven't heard of any that'll do it perfectly reliable for all discs that are out there. Usually a manual process with some automation in disc covers and descriptions.

    A straight rip to ISO/VOB folders WILL retain the entire disc structure, so that's the "easiest" if you want to retain the full disc navigation and such (it still won't auto-name discs and such for organization.)
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  7. Originally Posted by the_importer007 View Post
    Well to be more precise, I'll use audio as an example. FLAC is considered a Lossless audio codec, so I'm looking for the equivalent for a video format where the results will look as good as playing the original disc.
    Here's what you're missing. Flac is used on uncompressed audio. Say you get ~1400 kbps ucompressed audio from a CD. If you compress that with Flac you will get maybe 700 kbps. So you've compressed the audio about 2:1. But if you start with a highly compressed mp3 file you can't compress that to 64 kbps with Flac. You have to first uncompress the MP3 file, taking back to 1400 kbps (but still with all the losses caused by the mp3 compression), then compress that with Flac. You may get a little more compression from flac because MP3 filters out the highest frequencies. But you will not get a 64 kbps file. You'll get something like 650 kbps. So there's no point in using Flac on your mp3 files. If you want a 64 kbps file you have to decompress the mp3 source then recompress it (with an AAC encoder for example) and you will get further quality loss.

    Since video files from DVD or Blu-ray are already highly compressed you cannot compress them more without further reducing the quality. For the same reasons. The best you can do is "rip" the discs without further compressing the data (DVD's VOB container, and Blu-ray's M2TS container, have more overhead than other containers like MP4 and MKV, so you may get a very small reduction in file size).
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    Originally Posted by the_importer007 View Post
    Well to be more precise, I'll use audio as an example. FLAC is considered a Lossless audio codec, so I'm looking for the equivalent for a video format where the results will look as good as playing the original disc.
    There are indeed lossless video codecs but there is no advantage to using them for video conversions from Blu-ray and DVD that you intend to view. First, the resulting files will be vastly larger than the original video ripped from the disc. Second, finding a playback device other than a Windows computer to play video encoded with them is often difficult if not impossible.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  9. https://www.acceptv.com/en/products_yuv_convert.php
    One program designed specifically for converting video to lossless format.

    Vegas Video can do it - export to avi, customize template, pick lossless video and audio formats.

    Likely, Premiere, Avid, and Davinci can do this, too.
    Davinci and Avid Media Composer First are free to use and try.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/medfound/recommended-8-bit-yuv-formats-...ideo-rendering

    A backgrounder.
    Because dvd/bluray encodes are not 4:4:4, you don't need to expand to a lossless 4:4:4 format. 4:2:0 etc (depending on your source encode) is fine.

    https://github.com/Netflix/vmaf/issues/43
    The Swiss army knife ffmpeg cam do it too.

    ...

    Asking why is almost like why on earth did Honda STOP carpeting the underside of the front seats?!? Because it can be done ,)
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Since video files from DVD or Blu-ray are already highly compressed you cannot compress them more without further reducing the quality. For the same reasons. The best you can do is "rip" the discs without further compressing the data (DVD's VOB container, and Blu-ray's M2TS container, have more overhead than other containers like MP4 and MKV, so you may get a very small reduction in file size).
    To elaborate, theatrical quality RAW video is multiple terabytes per hour. So even a UHD is ~50-100x compressed. There is no, repeat no way to compress the file even more without loss. The reason you can sometimes compress without visual perception of loss is the the human eyes are very, very forgiving of visual artifacts and errors.

    Considering a GB of hard disk space (at least in the U.S. is ~2-4 cents), even if you compress a 40GB Blu-Ray to say 10GB (which will take several hours at least), you're saving less $1. Pennies for a DVD.
    Last edited by lingyi; 25th Jan 2020 at 10:06.
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    Bottom line. You will NEVER, repeat NEVER get better compression quality than a DVD, Blu-Ray, UHD rip. It's possible to subjectively improve upon the ripped video by careful and time consuming filters, but there will always be a loss unless you work with uncompressed video and keep it uncompressed after the filters are applied, and retaining the much, much larger file.
    Last edited by lingyi; 25th Jan 2020 at 00:30. Reason: grammar, clarity
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  12. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Many people seem to mix up the difference between:

    1. A lossless FORMAT (aka codec) - NOUN. which is stored or streamed or broadcast in its lightly-compressed form (compared to uncompressed, and vs. heavily compressed lossy formats). Incl. Flac, alac, lagarith, huffyuv.

    2. A lossless PROCESS - VERB. which operates on a format/stream/file *of ANY format, whether uncompressed, lossless, or lossy* in a manner which doesn't violate its internal integrity (which would then require a re-encode). Incl. Ripping, copying/moving, and in a broader sense - a few forms of editing, remuxing. The converse, lossy processes, include compositing, fx, resizing, interpolation, nr, re-encoding (of ANY kind), are lossy even if desired or necessary.
    Since lossless processes do not violate the integrity, the form stays basically the same as it started. Thus, dvd rip to mkv w makemkv still contains (maintains) the same lossy-compressed mpeg2 video & ac3 audio, etc. as the original. And in fact, could be (mostly) reversed and put back on a dvd without quality loss throughout the round trip. An absolutely lossless & reversible alternate would be ripping to ISO.

    If you get these clearer in your head, you will have a much easier time deciding what you want/need to do with what you have.

    Scott
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Since video files from DVD or Blu-ray are already highly compressed you cannot compress them more without further reducing the quality.
    Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    There is no, repeat no way to compress the file even more without loss. The reason you can sometimes compress without visual perception of loss is the the human eyes are very, very forgiving of visual artifacts and errors. .
    Well... you're both overlooking an exception to that rule.

    Noise.

    When noise is filtered out, you can compressn the video with no discernible loss, even if a re-encode is happening. The final re-encoded smaller file should look better than the source, if done right. Encoder choices, and encoder settings, become extremely important.

    Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    Bottom line. You will NEVER, repeat NEVER get better compression quality than a DVD, Blu-Ray, UHD rip. It's possible to subjectively improve upon the ripped video by careful and time consuming filters, but there will always be a loss unless you work with uncompressed video and keep it uncompressed after the filters are applied, and retaining them much, much larger file.
    Aside from the above noise exception, don't be too quick to use the (other) N-word: never. Never say never Mr. Mousekewitz!
    H.264 is better compression than MPEG (DVD).
    H.265 is better compression than H.264/AVCHD (Blu-ray).

    Note that "better" is used in a theoretical sense, software and user error still apply. And apply often they do!
    And in some senses, H.264 isn't better than MPEG, just different. (I know, that seems contradictory, but it isn't. Video is complicated at times.)

    There are many, many times, for my hobby, when I will rip a DVD, restore to remove noise, sometimes IVTC or QTGMC, and then use H.264 to compress output. The results are sometimes quite stunning. If ever any loss is incurred, it's generally with some luma detail (chroma is often improved). But that loss is mostly a byproduct of the filtering, not the mere act of re-encoding.

    But again, those are exceptions to the rule.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia
    Many people seem to mix up the difference between:
    1. A lossless FORMAT (aka codec) - NOUN. which is stored or streamed or broadcast in its lightly-compressed form (compared to uncompressed, and vs. heavily compressed lossy formats). lagarith, huffyuv.
    2. A lossless PROCESS - VERB. which operates on a format/stream/file *of ANY format, whether uncompressed, lossless, or lossy* in a manner which doesn't violate its internal integrity (which would then require a re-encode).
    If you get these clearer in your head, you will have a much easier time deciding what you want/need to do with what you have.
    Indeed.

    Womble or VideoReDo, for example, allow lossless MPEG editing. Meaning the MPEG does not incur further loss from re-encode. In this sense, it is lossless. That's the best example.

    Lossless formats are uncompressed video using data compression, not too dissimilar from ZIP. In fact, Huffyuv is directly related to ZIP, as it also uses Huffman compression/encoding. The codec is simply "unzipping" the data. (There are some rounding errors, which can sometimes leak into the visual spectrum, but this is extremely rare.)

    Therefore, to answer the OP, "lossless" from a DVD is the ISO disc image. Everything will be intact, even menus. Much of my collection is stored as ISO on HDDs, which I can plug into my WDTV. Files sorted by genre, in folders, and all drives have contents listed in a spread for easy searching.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 25th Jan 2020 at 00:44.
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    MKV will work with both DVDs and Blu-Rays, allowing you to choose audio streams and subtitles, and retain chapters, but menus will be lost. If there are multiple videos, for example extras, each will be in a separate .mkv file.

    As for software for automatically determining the beginning and end of episodic discs and automatically naming them, the answer is highly probably not. The episodes on DVDs and Blu-Rays may not be in separate files. They may be combined with only the chapter stops on the menu determining when a new episode begins. Also, I'm not sure about Blu-Rays, but the MPEG2 format used for DVDs doesn't support metadata which is what software relies upon to extract/download the episode name data. See my Post #6 in this thread: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/395226-Post-processing-digitized-VHS-content

    Putting aside the lossless issue, which has been well explained in the above posts, you're left with organizing your videos. Which means either ripping and saving to .iso which is an exact duplicate of the disc, less any audio streams and subtitles you choose to exclude. Or remuxing to another container, such as .mkv or .mp4. If the episodes are not in individual files, you'll have to manually edit the combined episodes into individual files. You'll also very likely have to manually name the individual episodes. If you're looking something simple like, <series name><episode 1><repeatable data> you can use a bulk renaming program like Lupas Rename. If there are any non-English characters in the name, give Advanced Renamer a try.
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    Oh lordsmurf, to have your knowledge, patience, skills and eyes to not make a reencode look worse than the original. I reverse my "N-word" to allow for you and the handful of other non-Smurf regulars who possess smurfalicious powers!
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  16. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by the_importer007 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I'll echo the above.

    There are two important words here both of which you might have different ideas as to their meaning.

    1. 'Rip' - that really means a bit for bit transfer of all the files from a disk-based source to another medium.
    2. 'Lossless' - closely related to 'rip' inasmuch you retain the format and the qualities as they were on that disk.

    Anything else is not a rip but a re-encode. Then you can select your format and the codec you use. In that scenario 'lossless' describes the codec and your 'rips' will be considerably larger than the original disk-based versions (certainly for dvd)

    There was a topic a few weeks ago that actually discussed the automatic naming of chapters or titles from a disk. Such software does not exist.
    Well to be more precise, I'll use audio as an example. FLAC is considered a Lossless audio codec, so I'm looking for the equivalent for a video format where the results will look as good as playing the original disc.
    I read your reply last night but I did not respond safe in the knowledge that those who know better (and one who thinks he knows better) would contribute.

    What has only been scratched upon is your comment 'looks as good as' since you may have already gleaned that has zilch to do with lossless in the scheme of things that you relate to.

    The advantage of lossless as you envisage will not improve, or even retain, quality beit explicit or visual. Methinks you have been spoon-fed on these so-called 'dvd-rips' which have zilch to do with quality whichever way you want to translate it.
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  17. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/189181-DVD-to-UNCOMPRESSED-avi
    Past suggestions for converting to lossless format.

    https://siarchives.si.edu/what-we-do/digital-curation/digital-video-preservation

    The Smithsonian says for archiving videos:
    "Create uncompressed video if possible. This does create large files but they retain their quality. Storage also needs to be considered with this approach however.
    If uncompressed video is not possible, use lossless instead of lossy compression. The compressed data gets restored while lossy compression alters data and quality is lost."
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  18. Image
    [Attachment 51677 - Click to enlarge]

    http://bitripper.com/

    Found another great program - direct DVD to Uncompressed & Lossless ripping!
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  19. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    smurfalicious
    Hahaha ...
    That reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T0utQ-XWGY
    Note: not at all my kind of tune, but I do remember it from something long ago, not sure why/where.
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  20. Thank you for the replies everyone. I tried different programs listed here and I think I'll go with MakeMKV like a few of you suggested. The program is fairly inexpensive for what it does, converts to MVK pretty quickly and I couldn't tell the difference the movie and episodes I've tried on my Blu-Ray player Vs those MKV files. Sure, I'll probably have to buy a couple of 8TB drives (not counting if I plan to purchase backup drives), but it will be worth it for the quality and ease of access to all of my movies, Anime and TV shows.

    Cheers
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    Good to hear youʻve had success with MakeMKV. Itʻs indistinguishable from the original, because itʻs an exact bit for bit copy (a rip) of the original file less any copy protection and overhead by the original container. If you compare the filesize of a Blu-Ray stream (harder to do with DVD) to your .mkv, it will just be a few hundred MBs smailler.

    Think of it a buying a round cake from the bakery, taking it out of the box and putting into a round cake container at home. Itʻs still the exact same cake, only the container is smaller.
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  22. Originally Posted by yayirobe View Post
    BluRay and UHD 4K BluRay will require additional hardware/software to properly decrypt. maybe use savef.net, so I think I'll go with MakeMKV like a few of you suggested.
    I ripped the Spider-Man Homecoming Blu-ray without any issues, doesn't look like I need anything else.
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    Originally Posted by yayirobe View Post
    BluRay and UHD 4K BluRay will require additional hardware/software to properly decrypt. maybe use *deleted*, so I think I'll go with MakeMKV like a few of you suggested.
    Nice try spammer. Reported
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  24. Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    Originally Posted by yayirobe View Post
    BluRay and UHD 4K BluRay will require additional hardware/software to properly decrypt. maybe use *deleted*, so I think I'll go with MakeMKV like a few of you suggested.
    Nice try spammer. Reported
    Oh, so he was not being honest in his post?
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    For Blu-Ray, no. I did a speed test a few months ago comparing the rip/remux speed of MakeMKV on my I7 system and my several [years old] AMD A6 laptop and results were virtually the same, ~30 minutes because the limiting factor is the speed of the optical drive. I used to use my 10+ year old original Quad Core Q6700 up until a couple of years ago.

    I talked about my informal test here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/394781-Rip-Blu-ray-and-UHD-Movie/page2

    For UHD, youʻll need a UHD optical drive and while itʻs reported MakeMKV may be able to rip some UHDs, youʻll probably need to use something like DVDFab UHD DVD Ripper.
    Last edited by lingyi; 30th Jan 2020 at 14:46.
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    Originally Posted by babygdav View Post
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/189181-DVD-to-UNCOMPRESSED-avi
    Past suggestions for converting to lossless format.

    https://siarchives.si.edu/what-we-do/digital-curation/digital-video-preservation

    The Smithsonian says for archiving videos:
    "Create uncompressed video if possible. This does create large files but they retain their quality. Storage also needs to be considered with this approach however.
    If uncompressed video is not possible, use lossless instead of lossy compression. The compressed data gets restored while lossy compression alters data and quality is lost."
    Okay, Iʻve reopened the floodgates and have to comment once again that you are once again ignoring the point of this thread and misunderstanding the needs of the OP.

    Converting a DVD to uncompressed does nothing, nada, zip, zero to [DVD/mpeg2] video except make it larger since itʻs already highly compressed. Waiting for lordsmurf to prove me wrong once again with his super smurfy eyes and techniques!
    It does have a use when editing since the quality loss will be less since youʻre working with an uncompressed vs compressed source (uncompressed from mpeg2 vs mpeg2).

    Youʻve once again selectively cut and pasted information to fit your argument, bordering on deliberately misleading the reader. My emphasis:

    There are some steps though that content creators shooting video can consider to ensure better accessibility and preservation in the long term.

    Create uncompressed video if possible. This does create large files but they retain their quality. Storage also needs to be considered with this approach however.

    If uncompressed video is not possible, use lossless instead of lossy compression. The compressed data gets restored while lossy compression alters data and quality is lost.

    Use higher bit rates (affects resolution of image and size of file.)

    Use technical and descriptive metadata.

    Use containers and codecs that are stable and widely used within the community."

    https://siarchives.si.edu/what-we-do/digital-curation/digital-video-preservation
    Last edited by lingyi; 31st Jan 2020 at 01:48.
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