Super 8mm to avi for DVD creation?

[jaybird]

Hi there!@ have not used forum in a very long time . I need some help and/or direction so if I am in the wrong place pls excuse! I am building a film scanner, 8-super 8mm movie film using a Epson Perfection 4990 Photo scanner and a home made film "gate", captures are really quite good! However, once captured I need a way to batch process captured film strips and "up-right" the frames so that I can edit them in a windows PC and create an avi file to burn as a dvd. I have found some complex "scripting" for Adobe Photo Shop but don't know how to use it and it is no-longer maintained by the originator. This scripting modifies the "magic wand" tool and uses it as a X-Y-Z mapping tool to correctly align the sprocket holes in order to complete transitions from frame to frame after "up-righting the images to a horizontal format (am I clear enough here as to what I want to do?), please advise! Regards, jaybird: PS, I am good at hardware, photo and movie edit/creation and am a digital artist, I am NOT a programmer!

[DB83]

Without access to the script who would know !

But there may be an easier, but still long-winded, way.

I suggest you upload one of these 'strips' as an attachment. If I read you correctly then there will be a dozen or so film frames in each one.

[jaybird]

Here is scripting included in the "white paper" (long winded version!), pls let me know what you think?: https://elischolar.library.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1088&context=jcas

[jaybird]

BB83: Here is a much more "simple" setup, more like what I am attempting to do: scripting is at the end of this post. As I have indicated, I am NO PROGRAMMER! I guess what I need to know is how the heck do I insert this script into PhotoShop and will it work with PSE 8 instead of a full blown PhotoShop program? Will send film section capture over soon and thanks for your quick response! jaybird
��post: http://keneckert.com/kenfilms/telecine/index.html

[DB83]

An interesting read. Yet the writer assumes that anyone who reads has the knowledge of how to batch process and implement action-scripting in Photoshop. Both of which are beyond me (and I get a cold sweat when I see javascript )

There are probably tutorials out there if that is where you stumble.

From a video viewpoint it is interesting that the author goes in to no detail of how, if he did, get over the issue of building his avi from 18 fps (for super8) although dvd-authoring may take care of that.

[ozymango]

I think this guy can help you, he even wrote some free software to do pretty much exactly what you're trying to do: http://www.wkurz.com/

[DB83]

BB83: Here is a much more "simple" setup, more like what I am attempting to do: scripting is at the end of this post. As I have indicated, I am NO PROGRAMMER! I guess what I need to know is how the heck do I insert this script into PhotoShop and will it work with PSE 8 instead of a full blown PhotoShop program? Will send film section capture over soon and thanks for your quick response! jaybird
��post: http://keneckert.com/kenfilms/telecine/index.html

Bottom line.

I guess you can not do this is in Elements since it is a more fundamental program. If elements could do the advanced stuff there would be no need for a 'full-blown' version.

BTW I have, in the past, transferred super8 film to video. I actually used a commercially available mirror-box and pointed a video camera at it. Simple transfer of video direct to PC and vdub to remove flicker. Results were quite satisfactory for me (still own the equipment but have no use for it)

[johnmeyer]

BTW I have, in the past, transferred super8 film to video. I actually used a commercially available mirror-box and pointed a video camera at it. Simple transfer of video direct to PC and vdub to remove flicker. Results were quite satisfactory for me (still own the equipment but have no use for it)

If you ever do this again, there are two slight modifications you can do that will make a huge difference.

First, eliminate the mirror box by using a telephoto lens on the projector. You can then point the camera directly at the projector and intercept the image before the focal point and get an upside down image in the camera without all the degradation and scatter from the screen.

The second is to use the nifty tool developed over at doom9.org which lets you take transfers done this simple way and eliminate many of the blends and dupes, and also much of the flicker. There are certain settings you must use on the projector to optimize the results, but you need to read the whole thread at doom9 (too long for this post).

[jaybird]

Hi every body, I have tried the above and it works fine except the film I now have is very brittle and bad sprocket holes but images are good so I had to resort to a flatbed scanner. I am using a Epson 4990 photo scanner, created a temp. film gate (down & dirty), run one segment of std. 8mm film horizontally through the scanner with everything set on high and 3200 dpi. I did some minor corrections and clean up in Corel PhotoPaint and had to "mirror" the image, saved to a JPG. Please see attached file. Tried an older piece of software "8mm2AVI on an old WinXP machine I keep for running older stuff.

Only real issue on quality right now seems to be "halo or lens flare" created by sprocket holes. This should be taken care of by cropping to 4:3 prior to burning DVD.

Bottom line: all I need now is to find a "simple way" to create an "AVI" horizontally that "sees" the individual frames, puts them in correct order to create a digital video/

Any ideas with out a ton of programming?

Regards,

jaybird

[DB83]

I guess that attachment is not the original scan. And as such is pretty useless to attempt any work on it.

Even so, the text you quoted, and the subsequent webpage link discuss that programming is essential unless you really want to crop the frames individually with all the inherent risks of maintaining a constant frame size.

[manono]

Why is that yellow 'echo' of the sprocket holes above the real sprocket holes?

Are you PAL or NTSC? What's the framerate of this video supposed to be? 18fps?

This should be taken care of by cropping to 4:3 prior to burning DVD.

No, if NTSC, you crop to a 1.5:1 ratio (720x480, or perhaps 704x480); if PAL then to 1.25:1 (720x576, or perhaps 704x576). You then encode setting a DAR of 4:3 so it plays back correctly as a DVD.

[aedipuss]

you might try putting some weight on the scanner cover to prevent light leakage. there appears to be more in the center than ends.

[jaybird]

The clip will be for NTSC, 4:3 and the original frame rate is 16fps, std. for regular 8mm (not 18fps as used for Super 8mm ) movie film. Yellow "echo" I am told is due to original over exposure or a "halo" effect? When played on a std. 8mm film projector a lens like "flare" can be seen at times in the frame position indicated. Cannot be seen in total on projection screen as most is hidden by original film gate in projector. I have also been told that it might have been generated by a "light leak" in the original camera itself?

[jaybird]

Almost forgot, "light bloom, halo, leak, etc." can be seen on the bare film itself so I don't believe it to be a problem with the scanner.

[DB83]

Maybe my above comment was overlooked.

But if that image is the actual scan then there is no definition when up upscale it (if it is there then I can not see it in a photo editor - actually Photoshop)

[jaybird]

Humm, I can see it and upscale it in Corel Paint Shop pro OK. Will send over a new, unedited scan with no mirroring or editing of any kind.

[aedipuss]

check each scan. if all are ok at the ends and bad in the middle i'd check for light leakage.

[jaybird]

Here is a "clean" un-edited scan. TIF file, approx 46 mb, same film clip. will make another scan later if required. These were the first few frames on the 50' reel. Further on in the reel no "bloom" but still "halo" (double image of original sprocket hole ) still present on film itself. Tried Photo Shop CS6 Extended, Gimp and Corel, all opened image and could scale just fine.

Just noticed, no TIF format in file upload area, will make a JPG and try again!

[jaybird]

Lets try this! A lot smaller and according to file format list is OK! MY BAD!

[DB83]

My apologies. Had a senior moment and saved the thumb rather than the underlying image.

I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

[aedipuss]

umm the first strip upload is only 2.5mb and the second only 1mb. neither is the original scan, or you're really wasting your time as neither is usable for anything.

[aedipuss]

maybe try "uploading files/manage attachments" rather then upload image?

[jaybird]

Senior Moment? What's that? Wouldn't know, I'm only 74

[babygdav]

In Photoshop, if every strip is aligned to begin each frame in the same spot, you can record your crop, paste to new image, save, for each frame...

[DB83]

I took a closer look at the two scans.

The 'flipped' image has the full width of the film and appears straight but the frames are not.

To my eyes the 'clean' image looks better. It certainly has more light. The frames also appear straighter.

Even so I do wonder whether your scanner is capable. The film scanners has discussed have different methods AFAIK from photo scanners which do not need light to go through the image.

If you are prepared to accept the quality and spend the time then, as I previously said, you need some programming to ensure straightness and a recorded 'batch' neither of which I guess are available in Elements.

[babygdav]

https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc29.htm#inputbatchscan

Try Vuescan
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-129314.html
http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/batchscanning.html

Almost forgot this program was designed to do all that cropping automatically.

[johnmeyer]

Vuescan is the ultimate scanning program for getting the best quality from your scanner and for doing batch scans. However, I don't know if it will have the accuracy and repeatability to give you well-aligned images, from frame-to-frame. It's worth giving it a try.

FWIW, it is a lot easier to simply buy a cheap projector on eBay, remove the shutter, put in a telephoto lens, and then grab the image directly from that lens.

This image shows my slide transfer system, but I did the same thing for 16mm movies using an Eiki sound projector.

https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51514&stc=1&d=1579289598

[jaybird]

TNX johnmeyer: however, this would not work for me . I have very old 50+ yr old) Super 8mm film that has become very brittle with many damaged sprocket holes. I am forced to use a flat bed scanner. In fact I probably wouldn't ever do this except it is the 50th wedding anniversary of a good friends wedding and they just discovered its existence of the film last month! But thanks for the input!

[babygdav]

More potential ideas for helping improve this process.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/photobsen/4300041687/in/pool-69453349@N00
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=vuescan+crop+film+strips&&view=detail&mid=7C10593...6FORM%3DHDRSC3
https://elischolar.library.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1088&context=jcas
http://truetex.com/telecine.htm

And, using a digital camera since the DPI resolution can be far higher than a flatbed scanner.
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/miscellaneous/es-2-film-digitizing-...apter-set.html
https://petapixel.com/2012/12/24/how-to-scan-your-film-using-a-digital-camera-and-macro-lens/

[johnmeyer]

I have never seen Super 8 with "vinegar syndrome," but perhaps that is what you have. Does it emit an odor like vinegar?

If your film has VS you can search the Internet for services that will transfer it. Most will not, because it "infects" the machine and can cause other acetate film to begin to decompose.

Here is one that I found using Google (i.e., I don't have any personal experience with them):

http://www.tmtv.net/motion_picture_movie_film_restoration_recovery_warped_shrunk_8mm_16mm.html

The idea of flatbed scanning film has been around for a long time, but the absurdly long scanning times, and the major problems with restoration have kept it from being widely used.