VHS S-video noise identification

[Tudor94]

Hi all,

I have been following this forum for almost a year now, to decide how to go about digitising my VHS memories.

My chain has been made of a Samsung DVD-V6800 that I managed to get hold of in almost new condition, linked through a SCART to S-video cable to a GV-USB2 japanese interface recommended around here, and this has been setup in VirtualDub to capture lossless using HuffYUV at 720x576 (PAL) resolution.

I had an initial issue with the SCART to S-video cable, though. As you know, S-video has 4 pins: Chroma, Luma, and 2 grounds. One of the grounds was causing the image to be very unstable, and upon removing that one, I ended up with the result in the attached image.


[Attachment 51360 - Click to enlarge]


Now, if I add a blur filter in VirtualDub, the output looks exactly as if I captured the Composite connection, therefore I figured I'd capture the S-video in this state anyway. With blur, I also lose some details, which I'd like to preserve.

Do you guys know if this noise has a particular known cause, or if it's just how s-video is, and how to fix this as best as possible? There are so many filters for virtualdub, avisynth, and others, I don't know where to start.

[DB83]

No. S-video should not look like that.

Now you have added more information, my best guess is that the cause is the s-video cable. Removing that ground pin has de-stabilised the signal. But even the scart to s-video adapter could be at fault as well.

In the first instance I suggest you get another s-video cable.

[lordsmurf]

It's probably not the cable.
The output of the VCR, or the SCART adapters, is to blame.

Better VCR suggested. This model will not results in quality output. Aside from the hatch noise, you'll have timing wiggles and chroma noise. Dreadful looking stuff.

[Brad]

I think you're capturing composite SCART as S-Video.

Current thread where jagabo explains that unless you can specify S-video in the menus, you're outputting composite: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/395556-VHS-to-digital#post2569582

Old thread showing similar interference pattern: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/311441-Are-these-lines-normal#post1922889

[Tudor94]

The S-video is hard wired into the scart, there is no adapter. I looked on Wikipedia at SCART pin usage, s-video output is mentioned on pins 13,15,17,19. However, pin13 is a combo ground pin for the red in the RGB out of the SCART, and was the one causing a destabilised image (way worse than the photo in OP).

Unfortunately, access to the tapes is limited to my holidays, being in my home country. So, at the moment, it's very hard to experiment with the hardware and re-capturing, hence why I was looking for a filter to take out this comb-like pattern.

I will look into acquiring a new VCR if software can't fix this, though it's becoming increasingly difficult to find the right equipment.

[lordsmurf]

There's really no way to correct that damage. It needs recapture.

New VCR, namely JVC/Panasonic S-VHS deck with line TBC, will be most ideal for a quality conversion. Yes, it is getting more difficult to acquire these decks in working condition, but not impossible. eBay UK/DE (Europe) isn't as bad as USA (with "working" and "tested" decks that don't work correctly), but that could always change someday. The longer you wait, the more you'll find yourself SOL in later years.

[Tudor94]

Ok, I asked my brother to help me with a composite capture, this is the result.

Do you think the difference would be noticeable enough on a Super VHS, to get it just for this one single tape? I don't know what device has been used to capture or transfer this tape when initially produced.

All my other VHS recordings are composite re-recordings from 8mm tapes, so clearly an S-VHS wouldn't help with those.

[DB83]

A single cap will never tell the full story. What exactly did your brother use to make the capture since nothing does this natively in mkv and IMO you would have issues enhancing it post-capture (the initial capture is only part of the, pardon the pun, picture)

That being said, subject to what you can advise by way of the response, there is little point in acquiring a S-VHS for just one tape even if you were able to re-sell it later.

[taigi]

ok, so decided to search internet about THE SAME artefact or noise that I received after transfering VHS to digital. Absolutely the same and I am happy to find somebody else has the same problem, this way maybe there's a possibility to find a solution. So. I transfered some VHS recording to digital using PAL Composite and there were no noise that is depicted in the attached image but after trying S-video I found that I have slightly sharper image but with that noise, that is similar to some grid. My question is, are there any solution found yet? My next step will be experiment with virtualdub noise filters, that's the only way I see. WHat I used: ordinary VHS player (tried 3 of them), scart adapter with s-video output and easycap. So, any info about this noise would be useful to hear.

[swiego]

I have seen almost identical noise before, when capturing over s-video via a cheapo Theater 750 USB capture dongle that apparently was failing and creating this noise. It was absent over composite with all other hardware being the same. I spent a lot of time switching source decks, cables etc. before realizing that the capture dongle itself was going bad... switching to another capture device eliminated the problem. This is just one experience and is not to say that your gv-usb2 box is the issue.

To my eye, that noise seems too well defined to come from the source deck, in my admittedly limited experience. I also would think EM interference from some steady state source affecting your cabling, or a problem with your capture device / capture software.

[lingyi]

It's probably not the cable.
The output of the VCR, or the SCART adapters, is to blame.

Better VCR suggested. This model will not results in quality output. Aside from the hatch noise, you'll have timing wiggles and chroma noise. Dreadful looking stuff.

Wouldn't a poor SCART adapter be the same as a poor S-video cable? I think you talked about it at digitalfaq and in my experience, the quality, especially the connectors/proper tight connection of S-video connectors does make a difference. My Atari 2600 is S-video modded and I had to go through several cables to get the clearest, lowest noise connection.

[lordsmurf]

It's probably not the cable.
The output of the VCR, or the SCART adapters, is to blame.
Better VCR suggested. This model will not results in quality output. Aside from the hatch noise, you'll have timing wiggles and chroma noise. Dreadful looking stuff.

Wouldn't a poor SCART adapter be the same as a poor S-video cable? I think you talked about it at digitalfaq and in my experience, the quality, especially the connectors/proper tight connection of S-video connectors does make a difference. My Atari 2600 is S-video modded and I had to go through several cables to get the clearest, lowest noise connection.

Q: Wouldn't a poor SCART adapter be the same as a poor S-video cable?
A: Yes.