avi-xvid vs avi-H.264

[osa]

--I'm new to the forum so please excuse the ignorance--

The factory installed screens in my car do not play avi-xvid. Upon testing at the dealership, they have determined that the car can only play newer avi-H.264 videos. It sounds a bit fishy as I have never experienced a similar issue with any of my players/devices.

1. Can someone, please, suggest whether this can indeed be the case or the proper .avi player should have no problem playing both? Please be specific as I might want to quote you to make myself smart in front of the dealer
2. If that's a known issue, is there a way to easily change xvid to H.264 or possibly trick the system to think it's H.264? (I would prefer to keep .avi without the loss of original quality and without size increase)

Thank you, thank you!

[johns0]

You have to re-encode the xvid avi to mp4/mkv h264 video,there's no avi/h264 I've heard about,with h264 you can get smaller file size than xvid with same video quality.

[osa]

there's no avi/h264 I've heard about

My exact thought I was afraid to say aloud since I'm not that tech savvy. Thank you very much. I'll be pushing the dealer to resolve the issue and won't settle for the excuse they gave me.

[hello_hello]

Maybe try remuxing an xvid AVI as an MP4 to see what happens. Box4 will copy video from one container (ie AVI) to another without re-encoding it, and it'll convert the audio in the process if need be, or copy it. You can experiment a little that way.

[johns0]

Remuxing a xvid to mkv/mp4 won't work on any device that requires h264 codec,so if the car device requires that then it won't work.Roku has that requirement.

[osa]

Thanks to both of you, I have just learned about a new way to convert that I'm sure I'll be using for other projects.

Meanwhile, my dealer has promised to upload the avi-H.264 file to the google drive to prove it exists. I know if I simply take any MKV/H.264 or MP4/H.264 file and change their extension to .avi, the details of the file will actually show H.264 (I'm using VLC player to get the codec info). Is there a way for me to know whether the file is the real .avi or the extension was simply manually changed to .avi? I don't trust those guys

[KarMa]

Low complexity H264 videos will work fine in avi. You might get problems depending on the encoding setting. It's generally recommended to use MP4 or MKV if your hardware supports it.

[jagabo]

Of course you an put h.264 video in an AVI container. For example, VirtualDub with the x264vfw codec can create such files. The major problem with this is that Microsoft's VFW library (which is used by many editors to read AVI files) is built around a one-frame-in-one-frame-out model. So it doesn't handle out-of-order encoding that's used in high compression codecs like Xvid and h.264. There are workarounds for that -- often called the "VirtualDub Hack" or "Packed Bitstream". But media players usually don't use VFW and don't need the hack.

On the other hand, it's relatively rare and not recommended because of the above issue. It's a bit hard to believe a player can play h.264 in AVI but not Xvid (Divx, MPEG 4 part 2) in AVI. It's usually the other way around. And when players support h.264 in AVI there are often limitations with things like frame size, limited (or no) b-frames, no variable frame rates, audio codecs, etc.

A sample...

[sophisticles]

First things first, AVI is only a container, you can put anything you want in it, ProRes, Mepg-2, H264, MPEG-4 ASP, etc.

Second, it's entirely possible the car dealer is telling the truth. Since this is a vehicle's entertainment system, it's nearly a certainty that it's using a hardware decoder, it's possible that for this particular model they licensed a decoder that is only capable of decoding AVC but not MPEG-4 ASP.

Try googling your car model to find out what hardware the infotainment system uses and you may discover that the dealer is telling the truth.

[osa]

Try googling your car model to find out what hardware the infotainment system uses and you may discover that the dealer is telling the truth.

I wish it was the case here (see the attached car's specs). After speaking to all of you I decided to go through the manual to only discover that the car should be playing both. Moreover, I used to have that same car with an older OS that played anything I threw at it. Lucky me got a new model with the brand spanking new OS this year.

[KarMa]

The car supports MP4, just use that for h.264.

[johns0]

I don't think the dealer knows much about video files since he thinks avi-h264 are normal video files,the manual states the codecs that are accepted,doesn't mean h264 should be avi contained,virtually every avi file ive seen is either xvid or divx and a few other codecs and mkv and mp4 are always h264 or xvid to a lesser extent.

[osa]

The car supports MP4, just use that for h.264.

I have 4 TB of avi movies (approx 1.3 gb per movie). To convert them to MP4 would take me days . I'm not a pro, this is purely on my recent experience where I did just that for a few movies to prep for a long road trip.

This forum has been incredibly helpful. Thank you everyone for steering me to the right direction. Learned quite a few tricks and discovered useful softwares.

[osa]

I don't think the dealer knows much about video files since he thinks avi-h264 are normal video files,the manual states the codecs that are accepted,doesn't mean h264 should be avi contained,virtually every avi file ive seen is either xvid or divx and a few other codecs and mkv and mp4 are always h264 or xvid to a lesser extent.

Johns0, thank you for taking time to help me with this! I'll be pushing for a fix. The car is brand new and under warranty. Like I said, I'm not a complete novice, but not a pro. I thought exactly the same, but was only 55% certain.

[jagabo]

You can quickly remux your XVID AVI files into MP4. Maybe that will play.

[osa]

You can quickly remux your XVID AVI files into MP4.

Excuse my ignorance, from what I understand remuxing simply changes the container without any loss or size increase. Given my avis mainly have xvid codec, would MP4 accept it? Won't I have to convert xvid to H.264 in the process which would be a long tedious process? If not "long and tedious", how long realistically would it take to remux 4 tb of videos?

[johns0]

Since your car media player accepts xvid it should play avi formats,if not then do what Jagabo said,you can always mux it with mkvmerge as well to mkv.

[jagabo]

You can quickly remux your XVID AVI files into MP4.

Excuse my ignorance, from what I understand remuxing simply changes the container without any loss or size increase. Given my avis mainly have xvid codec, would MP4 accept it?

Yes. Whether you player will play it -- you'll have to try a few and see (audio codecs may be an issue).

Won't I have to convert xvid to H.264 in the process which would be a long tedious process? If not "long and tedious", how long realistically would it take to remux 4 tb of videos?

Much less time than reencoding. On my old i5 2500K a 1 GB (90 minute) AVI file remuxed to MP4 in about 6 seconds with AviDemux (HD to same HD).

<edit>
Using ffmpeg only took about 3 seconds to remux the same video:

ffmpeg -y -fflags +genpts -i input.avi -codec copy output.mp4

This could easily be put into a batch file that remuxes every file in a folder, even recursively.
</edit>

[lingyi]

IIRC, xvid has some encoding parameters that are incompatible with some players. I know that some I got could be fixed by changing a setting in the header and others I had to reencode to fix. Both played fine on my PC, but not on my Toshiba DVD/XVID standalone.

Looked it up. Here's the settings that needed to be fixed:

"Profile and compatibility.

Notice that Profile should be "unrestricted" for resolutions higher than 720 x 576.
If you want your files to work with hardware devices, you should disable Quarter Pixel and Global Motion Compensation."

Source: http://www.robotplanet.dk/video/xvid_settings/

Another factor may be that since xvid is an old codec, resolutions higher than 720x576 may not be supported by hardware players. I remember I had to resize some that were 720i/p to 480i/p or 576i/p.

Edit: I take it back. I returned my Toshiba because it didn't play subtitles correctly and switched to the venerable Philips DVP642. I later got a Toshiba DVD recorder and that was my last hardware player.

[lingyi]

AVI Recomp fixes xvid files to be compatible with hardware players: https://www.videohelp.com/software/AVI-ReComp

I don't know exactly what it does by 'recompressing' (assuming uncompressing and recompressing) but I know it's faster than reencoding.

[jagabo]

AVI Recomp fixes xvid files to be compatible with hardware players: https://www.videohelp.com/software/AVI-ReComp

I don't know exactly what it does by 'recompressing' (assuming uncompressing and recompressing) but I know it's faster than reencoding.

According to the description it's reencoding. Apparently it's just using fast (lower quality) settings.

All features

1. Recompressing (reencoding) AVI clips using Xvid codec.

Most of the features it lists (removing QPel, GMC, hard coding subtitles, etc.) require reencoding.

[lingyi]

Thank you for the clarification.

It's been a long time I've had any xvid encoded files and I never did a comparison of before and after, because all I cared about was that they wouldn't play in my Philips. I don't have any files to check now, but I think I used GSpot to see if they needed to be run through AVI Recomp. If QPel and GMC is what's causing the OP's files not play, seems it would be better to reencode H264 to get better quality as just remuxing probably wouldn't fix the issue.

[jagabo]

Yes, if the problem is QPel and GMC the OP will have to reencode. And if he's going to reencode he's better off going to h.264+aac in MP4 or MKV (assuming his player really supports that).

Early hardware players didn't support QPel or GMC. Later players supported QPel and Divx's 1-warp-point GMC, but not Xvid's 3-warp-point GMC. The OP will have to check his files to see what he has, and his player to see what it supports. There was a nice Divx/Xvid test CD around which had samples for testing support for these features.

[lingyi]

Ahhh...memories coming back!

I upgraded to a DVP-5990 later and I think I didn't have to reencode for that.

Can't find the test CD .iso, but here's a nice list by Baldrick and jman98 of the problem parameters of xvid/dvix. None of these generally cause issues with PC playback. Though IIRC, something (GMC?) caused skipping/freezing during fast forward/rewind and slow motion/freeze frame. It's been almost 10 years since I last bothered with xvid, but it's coming back slowly.

"1. Use Gspot to open your avi divx/xvid files that wont work on your DivX DVD Player
2. Then compare the video settings against this list below
3. If it's something on the list you probably must reconvert the avi divx/xvid using for example avi recomp or autogk.

Any of the following Divx encoding options might cause DVD players to have problems.
1) Use of QPel (Quarter Pixel).
2) Use of GMC (Global Motion Compensation).
3) Resolutions greater than 720x576.
4) Files larger than 2 GB in size.
5) Video bit rates higher than 2000 Kbps.
6) If you use AC3, LPCM or DTS audio, the video bit rate may have to be a lot lower than 2000, perhaps as low as 1200 for successful playback.
7) Packed bit stream (MPEG4Modifier can remove this).

All of these problems except #7 require re-encoding the video to remove them. My best guess is that your resolution is greater than 720x576. Almost no DVD players support HD Divx. Region codes are not the cause of your problem.

/Thanks to jman98 for this list."

Source: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/290800-My-DivX-DVD-Player-can-t-play-my-avi-DivX-xvid-video

Edit: Packed bitstream! That was the issue I recalled could be fixed in the header.

[zizouillette]

I don't think the dealer knows much about video files since he thinks avi-h264 are normal video files,the manual states the codecs that are accepted,doesn't mean h264 should be avi contained,virtually every avi file ive seen is either xvid or divx and a few other codecs and mkv and mp4 are always h264 or xvid to a lesser extent.

Avi file with H264 codec is a normal video, like h264 in Mkv
you can encode an Avi video with a lot of codec:
DV (Digital Video), FFV1, Flash Video, H.263.......... MPEG4, MPEG4 AVC/ H.264....... hufiYUV, Motion JPEG, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, Xvid, VP9, X264
My Samsung TV plays without problem H264/AC3 in Avi video

[johns0]

You can encode h264 into an avi container but why would you want to?By normal i mean everyday use of that type of file.

[lingyi]

Yes, if the problem is QPel and GMC the OP will have to reencode. And if he's going to reencode he's better off going to h.264+aac in MP4 or MKV (assuming his player really supports that).

Early hardware players didn't support QPel or GMC. Later players supported QPel and Divx's 1-warp-point GMC, but not Xvid's 3-warp-point GMC. The OP will have to check his files to see what he has, and his player to see what it supports. There was a nice Divx/Xvid test CD around which had samples for testing support for these features.

"Xvid's 3-warp-point GMC." Another key point.

People thought that DivX and Xvid were completely cross compatible, but they weren't. IIRC correctly, since the DivX codec was proprietary and required a license*, the developers of Xvid couldn't code their free version in the exact same way, leading to some incompatibility. I believe the same thing happened with H.264 when X.264 was developed. leading to some playback issues even on PCs. In both cases, the popularity of the free versions tweaks that fixed any issues.

*DivX and Ultra DivX certified hardware like my DVP5990 were guaranteed to play DivX coded files, but not all Xvid files. Interestingly, the OP's manual lists Xvid compatibility, which seems to mean the player isn't Divx or Ultra DivX certified. I distinctly remember being Ultra DivX certified was a big thing back then as my DVD5990 played files with less issues than my DVP642

[lingyi]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the listing in the OP's manual nonsense?

mp4 - container. What are the codecs allowed and encoding settings required?
m4v - container [and codec. What are the encoding settings required?]
avi - container. What are the codecs allowed and encoding settings required?
wmv - container and codec. What are the encoding settings required"
xvid - codec. As discussed above, some settings aren't supported by all hardware players. [Especially if they're not DivX or Ultra DivX certified.]
h.264 - codec. What are the encoding settings required?

This is the same nonsense descriptions given in Smart TV manuals that causes even posters who actual[ly] RTFM to come here asking "Why won't my XXX file play?" at least several times every week.

Edit: Hopefully the OP hasn't gone off at the dealer yet as there's a ton of questions and things to be tried before the dealer/manufacturer (even though their manual is nonsense) can [be] put on the grill.

[osa]

Hopefully the OP hasn't gone off at the dealer yet

That ship has sailed . Now I have the dealer and a headquarter involved. Next stop is Germany I had this same car with a downgraded OS that played everything, so since I've "upgraded" I should get at least what I used to have or more. The car is now at the shop with engineers involved.

This forum is seriously missing the "thumbs up". Seriously, thank you to each one of you! You all have been amazing! I'm taking notes of each suggestion and gonna try one by one.

[lingyi]

Good luck on your quest and come back with the results please!