BD3D2MK3D: Convert 3D BDs or MKV to 3D SBS, TAB or FS MKV - Support thread

[koberulz]

I'm not talking about playing it on a TV, though, just looking at the file in VLC or the like results in two vertically-squashed side-by-side videos instead of two full-resolution videos. But it says the resolution is 3840x1080. Makes no sense.

It also looks the same on my TV, although I'm using an NVIDIA Shield as my playback device and not the TV directly. When I put the TV in 3D mode, it looks like it should.

[r0lZ]

If I select Full SBS, I get a video file that's 3840x1080, but both sides are still squashed vertically. I'm confused.

It's not the first time someone is confused by the way his TV shows FSBS. In fact, it's the player that resizes the 3840x1080 to display it full-screen. To examine the real size of the video stream, use MediaInfo, or a software player that can give you the correct information about the streams (like PotPlayer). And to display correctly the 3D content, you have probably to enable it in the menu of your TV (as well as, possibly, the correct aspect ratio).

Note also that there is a problem with the aspect ratio of Full-SBS and Full-TAB. Some TV require the AR of the final view (16:9), and some require the AR of the full image (32:9 for FSBS). Same problem for the SAR (1:1 or 1:2). So, depending of your TV, you may have to change one or the two aspect ratio options in the Settings menu of BD3D2MK3D.

Finally, note that only Half-SBS and Half-TAB are officially supported and well defined by a strict standard (except, of course, the frame-sequential standard of the 3D-BD). Playing with Full-SBS or Full-TAB is always hazardous.

[r0lZ]

I'm not talking about playing it on a TV, though, just looking at the file in VLC or the like results in two vertically-squashed side-by-side videos instead of two full-resolution videos. But it says the resolution is 3840x1080. Makes no sense.

It also looks the same on my TV, although I'm using an NVIDIA Shield as my playback device and not the TV directly. When I put the TV in 3D mode, it looks like it should.

This confirms that you should try other aspect ratio settings in the Settings menu. Do a quick test with a short clip. (Some good ISO samples here.)

[koberulz]

I'm not talking about playing it on a TV, though, just looking at the file in VLC or the like results in two vertically-squashed side-by-side videos instead of two full-resolution videos. But it says the resolution is 3840x1080. Makes no sense.

It also looks the same on my TV, although I'm using an NVIDIA Shield as my playback device and not the TV directly. When I put the TV in 3D mode, it looks like it should.

This confirms that you should try other aspect ratio settings in the Settings menu. Do a quick test with a short clip. (Some good ISO samples here.)

Huh? It looks correct when I enable SBS 3D mode on my TV.

[r0lZ]

When I put the TV in 3D mode, it looks like it should.

Oh, I did not pay attention to that sentence. So, what's the point ? A SBS movie MUST be watched in 3D. How a player or TV shows it in 2D is not relevant.

[koberulz]

My concern was that it displayed squashed in 2D mode, which implies I'm only getting half the horizontal resolution.

The only other issue is subtitles. Is there no way to convert them to work in full SBS?

[r0lZ]

My concern was that it displayed squashed in 2D mode, which implies I'm only getting half the horizontal resolution.

The aspect ratio is defined for a correct playback in 3D. It is absolutely normal that it is not correct for 2D.

The only other issue is subtitles. Is there no way to convert them to work in full SBS?

No, unfortunately, the dimension of the subtitles is limited to 1920x1080. Since the 3D subtitles must cover the whole 3840 x 1080 image, it is not possible to resize the subtitles to obtain the correct size.

However, there is a good solution. You can "hardcode" (or burn) the subtitles on the video. (See that option in the last tab.) That way, you are sure that the subtitles will be correctly displayed, by any 3D player (as otherwise, even for HSBS, some players move or resize the subtitles and therefore destroy their correct placement and depth, or, even worse, some TVs cannot display the PGS subtitles at all). The price to pay is that you will not be able to disable the subtitles, or to include several subtitle streams in the same MKV. Usually, that's not a problem for an individual usage.

[koberulz]

If that's true, how do 4K UHD titles have subs?

[r0lZ]

The subs for UHD are Full-HD (1920x1080), and resized by the player during the playback. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for 3D subs.

[koberulz]

I tried enabling burn-in, but I got the error "Can't convert "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to 3D BD SUP!", which isn't particularly specific about why that is.

[r0lZ]

What is "burn-in"? Do you mean the option to hardcode the subtitles over the video, available in the last tab?
Also, please post the log (the BD3D2MK3D.log file), or the section with the error about the conversion to 3D of the BD SUP.

[koberulz]

What is "burn-in"? Do you mean the option to hardcode the subtitles over the video, available in the last tab?

Yes.

I scrolled up a bit in the log and it has this:

*** Converting "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to 3D BD SUP. Please wait!
*** Converting subtitle file "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to 3D Full using 3D-plane "3D-Plane-00.ofs" + additional depth 0...
Subtitle language: eng (English)
*** Converting subtitle "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to "temp_2D.xml"...
> "D:\\DVD Files\\Software\\BD3D2MK3D\\toolset\\BDSup2Sub++.exe" --palette-mode keep --alpha-crop 0 --minimum-time 0 --language en --force-all set --fps-source 24p --fps-target 24p -o "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.3D_2D/temp_2D.xml" "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup"
BDSup2Sub++ 1.0.3
OPTION: Set language to English (en)
OPTION: synchronize target framerate to 24p
OPTION: Converting framerate from 23.976fps to 23.976fps
OPTION: Set minimum display time to 0
OPTION: Set palette mode to keep
OPTION: Set alpha cropping threshold to 0
OPTION: Set forced state of all captions to: set
Converting XML/PNG
Loading Z:/Temp/3D/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup
Detected 83 forced captions.
child process exited abnormally
*** BDSup2Sub close error: child process exited abnormally
child process exited abnormally. No captions in subtitle stream?
*** Found 102 captions, including 83 forced captions.
ERROR: Can't convert "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to XML/PNG format!
Deleting temp directory "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.3D_2D".
* Can't convert "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to 3D BD SUP!

Which doesn't seem any more helpful. Opening the MKV in Subtitle Edit and selecting that subtitle track shows all the subtitles that ought to be there.

[r0lZ]

Obviously, BDSup2Sub++.exe has crashed on your machine. Unfortunately, I'm not the author of that program, so I cannot really help.

Can you confirm that usually, you have no problem when a subtitle stream is converted to 3D ? That would mean that the subtitle stream is somewhat malformed. (The fact that SubtitleEdit can open it is not an evidence that everything is correct. A single subtitle can be malformed.)

Also, it seems that you don't have Java on your machine. BDSup2Sub++.exe is normally used for some things, and the java version of BDSup2Sub is used for other things (notably to convert from XML/PNG to SUP, when the crash has occurred), because none of these programs are perfect. But if you don't have java, the ++ version is used everywhere, and that can cause some problems. See Help -> Java Version for more info about BDSup2Sub and java, and a link to the version of java currently recommended.

[koberulz]

Also, it seems that you don't have Java on your machine.

But I do.

[Ennio]

I tried enabling burn-in...

The 2nd line of the log says "Converting subtitle file "MKV3D.track_4.Eng.sup" to 3D Full...". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I am guessing you are still working with/for full SBS video. If so,

Burning in 1920x1080 3D SUPS over 3840x1080 video will not be a sane thing in the first place. Both L/R subtitle images would end up being displayed too small and with a crazy big distance from each other.
Another imaginable thing, when forcing BD3D2MK3D to try & do so anyways, maybe somewhere in the script BDSup2Sub would be - uncommonly - dictated to create SUPs wider than 1920. Which is not compliant with the format's maximum screensize (1920x1080).
Maybe r0lZ could confirm.

FYI mediaplayers grow more and more aware of the use of "halfsized" SUPs for 4K video. You may want to try - instead of burning in - letting BD3D2MK3D "Generate 3D subtitles anyway" for full SBS and let it normally mux as an autonome PGS track in the mkv. Maybe your player will "understand" and scale the sub images/positions properly before overlaying them on video. In which case also the depth should be preserved.

[koberulz]

r0lz specifically said burn-in was an option for full SBS...

[r0lZ]

Ennio, you're right for "normal" subtitles, stored as a SUP stream. But here, koberulz wants to burn them over the Full-SBS video. It's not at all the same thing. In that case, BD3D2MK3D generates 2 independent subtitle streams, one for each eye. The bitmaps of the sub are not modified or resized, only the horizontal position is modified in the XML, to take into account the offset from the 3D-plane. Then, each stream is hardcoded on the video of the corresponding eye, with avisynth and the SupTitle filter. The two views are stacked horizontally after that. The method works perfectly, without the annoying problem of the compatibility of the "small" full-HD size over a UHD video frame.

So, no, BD3D2MK3D doesn't try to generate too large subtitles for the SUP standard. It's why it cannot generate UHD subs.

But I'm glad to learn that "mediaplayers grow more and more aware of the use of "halfsized" SUPs for 4K video". Thanks for that info !

[r0lZ]

r0lz specifically said burn-in was an option for full SBS...

Yes, but as Ennio wrote, you may want to enable the option to "Generate 3D subtitles anyway". With some luck, your player will be happy with that format, and you will have a standard subtitle stream, that can be turned on or off.

[koberulz]

My player isn't even aware of the concept of 3D, so I very much doubt it.

[r0lZ]

Also, it seems that you don't have Java on your machine.

But I do.

Hum, that's strange. Normally, the conversion of the XML/PNG back to SUP is made with the java version, but according to the log you have posted, that was not the case. Maybe BD3D2MK3D has been unable to find your java ? Or do you have only java 64-bit ?

What does Help -> Java Version show ? On my machine, it replies this:

---------------------------
BD3D2MK3D
---------------------------
Java is necessary to run the Java version of BDSup2Sub.

BDSup2Sub++ (that doesn't require Java) is used to convert the BD subtitles from the original BD SUP format to XML/PNG or to DVD IDX/SUB, because it doesn't have the numerous bugs of the Java version. Unfortunately, BDSup2Sub++ has also a big bug when it converts the XML/PNG stream created during the conversion of the subtitles to 3D to the final format. The position of the subtitles may be totally wrong when some XML/PNG subtitles are converted. For that reason, it is much better to use the Java version in that precise case.

If Java is not installed, BDSup2Sub++ will be used in all cases, including when converting the XML/PNG 3D subtitles to the final format, and you may and probably will experience the badly placed subtitles bug. It is therefore highly recommended to install Java or OpenJDK (32 or 64-bit).

The java executable that will be used is
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Eclipse Adoptium\jdk-17.0.3.7-hotspot\bin\java.exe"

openjdk version "17.0.3" 2022-04-19

Note that due to an important Oracle Java license update in April 2019, it is now recommended to install the Open Source version of Java from Eclipse Temurin, free for everybody.

Do you want to visit the Eclipse Temurin JDK web site?
---------------------------
Yes No
---------------------------

(You can type Control-C when the dialog is selected to capture its content in the clipboard.)

[koberulz]

---------------------------
BD3D2MK3D
---------------------------
Java is necessary to run the Java version of BDSup2Sub.

BDSup2Sub++ (that doesn't require Java) is used to convert the BD subtitles from the original BD SUP format to XML/PNG or to DVD IDX/SUB, because it doesn't have the numerous bugs of the Java version. Unfortunately, BDSup2Sub++ has also a big bug when it converts the XML/PNG stream created during the conversion of the subtitles to 3D to the final format. The position of the subtitles may be totally wrong when some XML/PNG subtitles are converted. For that reason, it is much better to use the Java version in that precise case.

If Java is not installed, BDSup2Sub++ will be used in all cases, including when converting the XML/PNG 3D subtitles to the final format, and you may and probably will experience the badly placed subtitles bug. It is therefore highly recommended to install Java or OpenJDK (32 or 64-bit).

The java executable that will be used is
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Oracle\Java\javapath\java.exe"

java version "1.8.0_333"

Note that due to an important Oracle Java license update in April 2019, it is now recommended to install the Open Source version of Java from Eclipse Temurin, free for everybody.

Do you want to visit the Eclipse Temurin JDK web site?
---------------------------
Yes No
---------------------------

I installed the Eclipse version and restarted BD3D2MK3D, but it's still showing the same path/version number.

[r0lZ]

You have to uninstall the Oracle version first. They are mot the same programs.

BTW, I have version 1.0.4beta of BDSup2Sub++. I have not distributed it with BD3D2MK3D, because, as its name implies, it's a beta release, potentially unstable. But I will test it, and if it appears stable enough, I will probably distribute it later. Let me know if you want to test it. Maybe it will not crash any more ?

[koberulz]

Uninstalling requires a reboot, which I can't do right now because I'm transferring the contents of a 10TB drive. Blegh.

[Ennio]

In that case, BD3D2MK3D generates 2 independent subtitle streams, one for each eye. The bitmaps of the sub are not modified or resized, only the horizontal position is modified in the XML, to take into account the offset from the 3D-plane. Then, each stream is hardcoded on the video of the corresponding eye, with avisynth and the SupTitle filter.

Ah, I wasn't aware BD3D2MK3D did this in case of burning in full SBS. Clever! Thanks for explaining.

I'm glad to learn that "mediaplayers grow more and more aware of the use of "halfsized" SUPs for 4K video".

Yes, some time ago - as a test - I encoded a full SBS with x265 and with the "3D SUPs anyways". My Zidoo Z9x processes video & subs flawlessly.

[koberulz]

Okay so that's fixed, but there are subs in the forced track that shouldn't be there. What's the best way to delete them? I tried opening the exported sup file in BDSup2Sub and exporting a new sup file, then muxing that into the MKV, but now it's erroring out because it's not supported. Blegh.

[r0lZ]

Indeed, there are many problems with your subtitle stream. Not sure why. My edition of Avatar did not have the problem of the additional forced subs.

Anyway, there are two methods to get rid of the bad subs. You can either reload the SUP in BDSub2Sup++, and use Edit -> Edit Frame -> Exclude from export, for all subtitles you want to remove. That's tedious. But the export from BDSup2Sub++ (preferably the new beta) should work and be supported by the muxer. Are you sure you have exported it to the correct format : SUP (BD) ?

The other method is to open the temp folder created by BD3D2MK3D, with a name similar to 00000.track_4608.Eng.3D_2D. In that folder, use a good image viewer to view all images, and delete the one you don't need. Then, use BD3D2MK3D's Subtitle tools -> Remove selected subtitles from XML/PNG. That tool will automatically remove all references to the deleted PNGs from the XML file in the temp directory. Finally, convert the resulting XML file to 3D with Subtitle tools -> Convert subtitles to 3D, but don't forget to select the XML, NOT THE ORIGINAL SUP. You don't need to specify a 3D-Plane, as the depth information is already stored in the XML. Finally, rename the output SUP so that it will be muxed with the MKV, and relaunch __MUX_3D.cmd. IMO, it's the easier method, especially if you need to remove many subtitles.

Good luck !

[koberulz]

If I'm doing Full SBS, what do I select as the stereoscopy format? Two full-sized files? And what do I need to name the output file as?

[r0lZ]

Yes, it's two full-sized files. And the name of the files depend of the filename of the original subtitle stream. I just did a test with a sample ISO (not a MKV), and the filename of the original subtitle stream is this:
00000.track_4608.Eng.sup
In that case, you should use this for the string in the GUI:
00000.track_4608.Eng.3D
(So, just remove the .sup extension and add the .3D)
After the conversion, you should see these files : 00000.track_4608.Eng.3D_left.sup and 00000.track_4608.Eng.3D_right.sup.
In your case, the basename is probably MKV3D.track_4.Eng.3D

But I realize that there are many other things to modify, as if when you have generated the project BD3D2MK3D has been unable to generate the two 3D subtitle streams, it will be unable to use them, because the necessary scripts have omitted the parts that must be included to process and hardcode the subtitles. So, IMO, it will be difficult to modify the script yourself. If you can still wait a couple of days, I will release the new version, and you should be able to use it to do the whole job. Just be patient, as I don't want to release something potentially unstable. And BTW, don't forget that the problems you are experiencing are mostly due to the extremely bad subtitle streams of (apparently) all versions of Avatar ! BD3D2MK3D is not the culprit !

[koberulz]

It's generated them fine - I dropped in the new version of Sup2Sub that you PMed me - I just need to remove a few lines is all.

[r0lZ]

Yes, the subtitles are correct, but probably not the other files in your project folder.
Anyway, I'll give you a beta to test. Watch your PMs.
Of course, if you have already removed the subtitles you don't want, keep the modified streams in a safe place, to overwrite the bad ones. The new version of BD3D2MK3D will probably work fine to convert the whole thing, but it is of course unable to remove non-forced subs tagged as forced !