BD3D2MK3D: Convert 3D BDs or MKV to 3D SBS, TAB or FS MKV - Support thread

[r0lZ]

OK, I have decided to release the beta publicly, so that everyone can test it. You should install it if you have some trouble with the subtitles, or difficulty to hardcode the subtitles in Full-SBS or Full-TAB mode, or, of course, if you want to help me. Note that the archive contains only two exe files. You should keep everything else unchanged.

Download BD3D2MK3D_1.29beta1

@koberulz : Please use this version for the whole process and let me know if everything works as expected. Before the mux operation, don't forget to replace the left and sight subtitle streams with the modified streams without the bad subs.

[koberulz]

Works fine for Avatar, but with Finding Nemo....

*** Welcome to BD3D2MK3D v1.29beta1
*** It is strongly recommended to install AviSynth+ 64-bit on your 64-bit system.  See Help menu.

*******************************************************************************

*** Opening interleaved 3D MKV file "Finding Nemo_t02.mkv"...
The input 3D MKV file has been written by MakeMKV v1.17.2 win(x64-release)
*** "Finding Nemo_t02.mkv" opened successfully.

*******************************************************************************
Log file generated by BD3D2MK3D v1.29beta1
Conversion of "Finding Nemo_t02.mkv" to Side-by-Side.
Movie title: Finding Nemo
*** 64-bit system detected but AviSynth+ 64-bit is NOT installed !
Encoding with AviSynth 32-bit.
It is strongly recommended to install AviSynth+ 64-bit !  See Help menu.

Generating project "Finding Nemo\MKV3D"...

*******************************************************************************

Main job started Wed Oct 19 18:07:09 CST 2022.

Saving file "MKV3D.demux.meta"...
Saving file "chapters_2D_no_delay.ogm.txt"...
Saving file "chapters_2D_no_delay.qpfile"...
Saving file "chapters_3D_delay.ogm.txt"...
Saving file "chapters_3D.qpfile"...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** Demuxing the streams...
tsMuxeR version git-eecf6b0. github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer
Decoding H264 stream (track 1): Profile: High@4.1  Resolution: 1920:1080p  Frame rate: 23.976
H.264 muxing fps is not set. Get fps from stream. Value: 23.976
Decoding H264 stream (track 2): H.264/MVC Views: 2 Profile: High@4.1  Resolution: 1920:1080p  Frame rate: 23.976
MVC muxing fps is not set. Get fps from stream. Value: 23.976
H264 bitstream changed: insert nal unit delimiters
Processed 145150 video frames
Processed 145150 video frames
Flushing write buffer
Demux complete.
Demuxing time: 25 min 28 sec
Streams demuxed by tsMuxeR:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** Demuxing the TrueHD audio tracks with eac3to...  Please wait!

> eac3to.exe "Finding Nemo_t02.mkv" 2: MKV3D.track_2.Eng.thd -progressnumbers
Please specify the source and dest files first and then the options.
*** eac3to ERROR: 
(BD3D2MK3D) 1 %

[r0lZ]

Damn ! I will have a look...
Thanks

[r0lZ]

Well, sorry, but I can't reproduce the problem. The command line is identical, and there is no error message about the order of the command line arguments, as you can see:

*** Demuxing the TrueHD audio tracks with eac3to... Please wait!

> eac3to.exe "H:/Video/EAC3_example/title_t00.mkv" 2: MKV3D.track_2.Eng.thd -progressnumbers
MKV, 1 video track, 5 audio tracks, 0:03:02, 24p /1.001
1: h264/MVC (right eye), English, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
2: TrueHD, English, 7.1 channels, 48kHz
Surround 7.1
3: AC3, English, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz
Surround 5.1
4: AC3 Surround, English, 2.0 channels, 320kbps, 48kHz
Stereo
5: EAC3, French, 7.1 channels, 48kHz
Surround 7.1
6: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 512kbps, 48kHz
Surround 5.1
Bitstream parsing for track 5 failed.
Demuxing this track may still produce correct results - or not.
a02 Extracting audio track number 2...
a02 Creating file MKV3D.track_2.Eng.thd...
Video track 1 contains 8749 frames.
eac3to processing took 10 seconds.
Done.

Unfortunately, I don't have Finding Nemo, so I can't check it, but IIRC, it's one of these difficult Disney/Pixar movies with a lot of multi-angle segments. Perhaps the problem is due to that.
If course, if you deselect the THD track and use the AC3 core instead, everything will work perfectly (but you will have a lossy 5.1 audio track).

If someone can check if he has the same problem with Finding Nemo (in MakeMKV mode), please let me know. Also, I would be interested in a short segment of the source MKV (say the first 5 minutes or so). You can split any file with, for example, GSplit. Thanks in advance for any help.

BTW, when I was trying to reproduce the bug, I came across a BD with an audio track without language code. That's of course totally illegal, and BD3D2MK3D crashed. I have implemented a workaround to tag it as "und" (undefined language). That fix will be available with the final release of v1.29.

[koberulz]

I deselected both audio tracks and still got the error.

[r0lZ]

Ah, of course. You should not select the THD track. It's that track that triggers the error.

[Ennio]

If r0lZ is right and Finding Neo is a multi-angled and/or seamless branched disc, it might pay off to try a different workflow creating BD3D2MK3D's source.

Instead of directly ripping from disc to a mkv, let MakeMKV create a full disc back-up from the physical disc. Import the proper playlist from this rip into latest nightly build of tsMuxer and create a 3DBD ISO.
Mount this ISO and import in BD3D2MK3D, obviously using the "Open Blu-ray 3D" button. See if things go better now.

This workflow saved my butt a couple of times with "difficult" discs. No guarantees, but there is a chance latest tsMuxer will do a better job with de- and remuxing files from such discs.

[koberulz]

Ah, of course. You should not select the THD track. It's that track that triggers the error.

I said I deselected both tracks. I had no audio enabled at all. Still got the error.

[r0lZ]

deselected

Hum, that's totally bizarre. Normally, the second demux pass with eac3to is necessary ONLY if a THD track is selected.
Anyway, I have now a sample to test. I will try it myself.

[r0lZ]

OK, perhaps I have found the problem (but not the solution yet!). But I need a confirmation. Can you confirm that the order of the streams (as visible in tab 1) is:
Audio AC3
Video MVC
Video AVC
Audio THD

and, in tab 2, you see this:
2 Audio AC3
1 Audio THD

It's what I see with the sample, but I would like to be sure that it's exactly the same order and numbers in track 2 than for the BD that has triggered the error you have reported here.
If it's the case, perhaps the eac3to command line is wrong, and uses a bad track number. It's what I suspect with the sample, but I don't have the same error message.

[r0lZ]

OK, I've found the second bug. Indeed, eac3to tried to demux the THD track even when it was not selected in tab 2. So, here is BD3D2MK3D v1.29beta2, that fixes that bug. Just replace BD3D2MK3D.exe with the version from the archive, but do not delete the other files. You should now be able to process Nemo correctly if you do not select the THD track.

I think I have found the reason that causes the eac3to crash. Unfortunately, tsMuxeR and eac3to do not "see" the streams in the same order. The stream numbers in tab 2 are the ones necessary to demux the track with tsMuxeR, and BD3D2MK3D assumes that the same track numbers can be used with eac3to, but obviously, in some cases (and notably with the Nemo sample I have here), it's not the case. I will have to implement a workaround for that problem, but that's difficult, because the labels of several streams can be identical, and I will have no way to know what stream is what. So, this fix may take some time.

BTW, beta2 fixes another (extremely rare) problem. With some badly authored BDs, an audio or subtitle track may have no language code. In that case, the code is not just 3 spaces, but 3 null characters, badly interpreted by tsMuxeR. In the current beta, when a language code is missing, it is automatically replaced with "und" (undefined). It's not perfect, but at least, tsMuxeR doesn't crash. The problem happened in BD/ISO input mode. I still have to check if it happens also in MakeMKV mode.

Download BD3D2MK3D v1.29beta2

[koberulz]

The tracks seem fine in both tabs opening the original, it's only the sample that's muddled.

[r0lZ]

Oh, well, anyway, I have probably found another problem, again related to the THD track. I'm working on it, but beta 2 could as well fail.

[koberulz]

---------------------------
BD3D2MK3D
---------------------------
There are missing exe files in the BD3D2MK3D\toolset folder.

The folder "toolset" and its full content must be present in the BD3D2MK3D installation folder.

The problem might be caused by false positive virus detections. Please check that your antivirus software has not quarantined the following exe files, and if so, exclude them from the scan and restore them, and re-install BD3D2MK3D if necessary.

The missing files are BDSup2Sub++x64.exe.

Bye.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

[r0lZ]

Oh, yes, I have written previously that the original files must not be deleted. BDSup2Sub++x64.exe has been distributed with the first beta. You should have it.

Anyway, there are still many things to fix, as the problem of the different streams order has repercussions on a lot of things. I am almost sure that the beta2 will not work, although it will be possible to demux the THD stream.

I have friends at home this weekend, but I will try to release a new beta (that will hopefully be the last one) at the beginning of next week. In the meantime, use beta1, without THD.

[r0lZ]

@koberulz : Just to be sure. I see this message when I open the Nemo sample in BD3D2MK3D. (To see the message, use File -> Show Console.)

*** Opening interleaved 3D MKV file "G:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Difficult BD\test_nemo.mkv"...
The input 3D MKV file has been written by Lavf57.56.101
Cannot determine the version of MakeMKV used to create the 3D MKV file.

BD3D2MK3D is supposed to open a 3D AVC+MVC MKV created by MakeMKV, not by another tool (ffmpeg?) and it tries to determine the version of MakeMKV to avoid several old MakeMKV bugs or missing tags. Also, if the file has been modified, it may be impossible to retrieve the 3D-Plane number associated with a particular subtitle stream, and the order of the left and right views of the video.

Maybe you have remuxed a part of your original MKV to create the sample. If it's the case, it's not a problem, but that could also explain the bizarre order of the streams in the sample (THD, AC3, AVC, MVC instead of AVC, MVC, THD, AC3, that should always be the order when the source MKV has not been modified). And if it appears that indeed, the sample has been re-created somehow, I should not have modified my code to take the wrong stream order into account !

Anyway, I did it, and currently, it works with your sample. I will still test the latest version with several BDs and 3D MKVs, and if it seems to work well, I will release beta 3, probably tomorrow.

[koberulz]

As I said, the track-order thing only applies to the sample (which, yes, was an ffmpeg remux), not the original.

[r0lZ]

OK, here is beta 3. It should work fine (although there might still be some problems with the numerous multi-angle segments of Nemo, but I don't think so). I have tested it with several small BDs and MKVs, and everything has worked perfectly, including with the Nemo sample (badly) modified by ffmpeg. Therefore, I consider this beta as the release candidate.

Please test it carefully as soon as possible, and if it works well, I will release v1.29 final. Thanks again for the bug reports.

Download BD3D2MK3D_1.29beta3.7z

[KaraokeAmerica]

Is there a sheet somewhere that has a description of what all the options do?

Is there a way to create an UNCOMPRESSED output? I found CRF etc settings and an option to make it 720p, but what if I don't want to compress it at all.....similar to MakeMKV? Is that possible?

Thanks!

[r0lZ]

No, there is no manual. Most options somewhat difficult to understand or master have a "?" button, with the necessary explanation. And if you need an additional info, ask it here.

CRF 0 or CQ 0 create a lossless video. It will be somewhat compressed anyway, but the resulting file will probably be a little bit larger than the original video on the BD (lossy compressed). Without compression at all, you will need a (very big) hard disc to store a single movie ! Who would want that ?

[koberulz]

Is there a sheet somewhere that has a description of what all the options do?

Is there a way to create an UNCOMPRESSED output? I found CRF etc settings and an option to make it 720p, but what if I don't want to compress it at all.....similar to MakeMKV? Is that possible?

Thanks!

MakeMKV just gives you exactly what's on the disc. You can't change it without re-encoding it.

[KaraokeAmerica]

Who would want that ?

I would! I store all my 3D uncompressed (untouched) for maximum quality.

I have tried a CRF=0 in Handbrake before, but yes, it actually increases file size and still recompresses somewhat. It also takes a LOT longer to do this even with low compression compared to straight off the disk like MakeMKV.

MakeMKV just gives you exactly what's on the disc. You can't change it without re-encoding it.

Yes, it does if you can read the ISO. There is a synchronization error in the ISO file though that MakeMKV can't overcome. These are homemade 3D disks that play in KODI as an ISO, but I want to rip to lossless MKV-MVC so I can include them in my Plex library. BD3D2MK3D was able to rip the file, but it recompresses the video and I don't want that.

[r0lZ]

You don't understand that uncompressed and untouched is not at all the same thing. As koberul wrote, if you want the BD streams untouched, then use MakeMKV, but you will probably not be able to play your movie in 3D elsewhere than on your PC, with the few 3D players that understand the AVC+MVC format. In the other hand, if you want to keep the original quality but in another 3D format (compatible with most players), then use BD3D2MK3D in CRF 0 mode to recompress the video without loss.

Compressing a video (or audio) stream doesn't mean that you will have a less good quality, if you select the lossless compression mode. But storing a collection of uncompressed video is totally impossible, unless you have thousands of terabytes to spend ! (Trust me, I have worked in a professional video production studio, where uncompressed video was often necessary, but that required so large hard discs that it was impossible to carry them alone!)

A lossless compression is less efficient than a lossy compression, but keeps the original quality, without modification. It's for example, the case of FLAC for audio. A lossy compression compresses better, but with a less good quality (for example, MP3). Uncompressed audio (WAV) takes much more disc space, but for audio, it's still possible.

Compressing the video with BD3D2MK3D, CRF 0 (in Full-SBS, Full-TAB or FS stereoscopy) will give you exactly the same quality than on the original BD, with a compression slightly less good, but a much more useful 3D format.

Now, if you really want to store your BD as AVC+MVC 3D (like with MakeMKV) but, as you wrote, MakeMKV cannot do it due to a sync error, you can theoretically manually remux the original audio, video and subtitle streams extracted by BD3D2MK3D with Mkvtoolvix. You should obtain approximately the same thing than with MakeMKV, although some information will be lost, like the correct 3D-Planes for the subtitles and the order of the two views (left/right or right/left). But anyway, be warned. If MakeMKV fails and if you have seen a warning in BD3D2MK3D explaining that the two views do not have the same number of frames, that mean probably that the BD is irrevocably damaged, and that the two views will contain slightly different frames, a real torture for the brain. Unfortunately, it is not possible to magically restore the BD or ISO in perfect state. And re-compressing (losslessly or not) the extracted video streams will not help.

[KaraokeAmerica]

You don't understand that uncompressed and untouched is not at all the same thing. As koberul wrote, if you want the BD streams untouched, then use MakeMKV, but you will probably not be able to play your movie in 3D elsewhere than on your PC, with the few 3D players that understand the AVC+MVC format. In the other hand, if you want to keep the original quality but in another 3D format (compatible with most players), then use BD3D2MK3D in CRF 0 mode to recompress the video without loss.

Compressing a video (or audio) stream doesn't mean that you will have a less good quality, if you select the lossless compression mode. But storing a collection of uncompressed video is totally impossible, unless you have thousands of terabytes to spend ! (Trust me, I have worked in a professional video production studio, where uncompressed video was often necessary, but that required so large hard discs that it was impossible to carry them alone!)

A lossless compression is less efficient than a lossy compression, but keeps the original quality, without modification. It's for example, the case of FLAC for audio. A lossy compression compresses better, but with a less good quality (for example, MP3). Uncompressed audio (WAV) takes much more disc space, but for audio, it's still possible.

Compressing the video with BD3D2MK3D, CRF 0 (in Full-SBS, Full-TAB or FS stereoscopy) will give you exactly the same quality than on the original BD, with a compression slightly less good, but a much more useful 3D format.

Now, if you really want to store your BD as AVC+MVC 3D (like with MakeMKV) but, as you wrote, MakeMKV cannot do it due to a sync error, you can theoretically manually remux the original audio, video and subtitle streams extracted by BD3D2MK3D with Mkvtoolvix. You should obtain approximately the same thing than with MakeMKV, although some information will be lost, like the correct 3D-Planes for the subtitles and the order of the two views (left/right or right/left). But anyway, be warned. If MakeMKV fails and if you have seen a warning in BD3D2MK3D explaining that the two views do not have the same number of frames, that mean probably that the BD is irrevocably damaged, and that the two views will contain slightly different frames, a real torture for the brain. Unfortunately, it is not possible to magically restore the BD or ISO in perfect state. And re-compressing (losslessly or not) the extracted video streams will not help.

Wow! That is a lot to digest!

I completely may have misspoke when I used the term “uncompressed“ to mean untouched. Essentially what I’m doing is pulling the decrypted streams off of the 3-D Blu-ray and re-muxing them into an MKV file when I use makeMKV. That is what I have done for years. I have a couple of hundred 3-D Blu-ray titles and more come in all the time. They do take up a lot of space. In my experience they use anywhere from 25 to 40 GB per movie. I have about 35 TB of storage on my server though so that really hasn’t been a hindrance to this point. What I want is maximum resolution and picture quality as close to the original Blu-ray as I can get. You are correct it’s possible to use a high-quality encoding process to minimally affect the video quality while still reducing the size. I’m not and picture quality as close to the original Blu-ray as I can get. You are correct it’s possible to use a high-quality encoding process to minimally effect the video quality while still reducing the size. I’m not completely opposed to that, but it just hasn’t been a necessity for me so far.

I’m not quite clear what lossless compression looks like in this context. I’m familiar with HEVC and H.264, but those are both lossy. Which encoding format is lossless in your program? I’d like to do some testing.

Also, I’m not 100% clear on the AVC-MVC that you were referring to……the format that make MKV produces. It’s the only format I know of that doesn’t lose any resolution on my 3-D TVs. I have two passive LEDs and an active DLP projector. As far as playing them goes, the built-in Plex app on my LG smart TV will play those files natively. However, I don’t use the apps in the TV. I have an Nvidia shield plugged into it for all of my consumption except 3D. No native Plex player can handle MVC unless it’s it’s built into the TV. Plex can of course, play SBS/TAB format but can’t seamlessly switch the TV into 3-D mode as the hardware can’t do that. using one of those formats generally only gives you half the resolution of the original though, so I try to stay away from SBS or TAB as much as possible.

To watch my 3-D stuff in MVC format I have an OSMC-Vero4K+. It’s a pretty awesome player that’s based on kodi and fully supports MVC, SBS etc as well as 4K, pass through HD audio etc. over the years, I have also used an OSMC build for the Raspberry Pi and LibreELEC. It cannot handle 4K or HD audio but since there is no 3-D in any higher resolution than 1080 and all my movies have 5.1 tracks that hasn’t really been an issue either.

I was under the impression that frames sequential 3-D was the same thing as MVC. I might be completely wrong about that, but can you tell me what format doesn’t lose any resolution, but is more universally playable? is frame sequential 1080 on both eyes?

I appreciate your higher knowledge of the technical details here!

[koberulz]

I've been encoding as FSBS, which plays fine on my NVIDIA Shield, although I obviously have to manually put the TV into SBS 3D mode. It spits out a 4K file that is the two full-resolution feeds side by side, instead of halving the resolution to fit it into the original 1920x1080 file dimensions.

[Ennio]

Other than 3D on blu-ray, SBS or T&B isn't exactly bound/defined by official specs. As inevitable consequence, one can imagine players and tv's behaving differently. Often they ignore values of (or aren't even able to read) stereo mode headers. Some react only on file-extensions. Other players will blindly switch to a certain 3D mode purely by naming convention. Which can be fun; imagine what T&B looks like when player spits out SBS because of filename. And how a 3D tv will cope. It all depends. There are devices that have proper detection onboard. When offered "unprocessed" SBS or T&B, my Panny plasma knows and gives a "3D alert" which offers a choice to go 3D or 2D. Where it makes no difference whether the signal comes from a 3D or non-3D player.

Since it's mentioned, I've wondered about these MakeMKV sync errors on a 3D ISO remux. While the ISO itself plays ok. Often things do go well in MakeMKV though. Where I have this hunch that (disregarding disc authoring & decryption difficulties) the versions of both tsMuxer and MakeMKV come into play. As such, a new "movie only" remux with another (latest?) version of tsMuxer may help out. No guarantees though. Not really being a die-hard user of 3D mkv, I never dove in-deep as to where/why these errors would occur.

[r0lZ]

I’m familiar with HEVC and H.264, but those are both lossy. Which encoding format is lossless in your program? I’d like to do some testing.

HEVC and AVC (the other names for h265 and h264) are usually lossy, that's true. But, as I wrote above, not if you encode in CRF 0. The number after CRF or CQ is the quantizer. For short, it's a measure of the quantity of information you accept to remove or modify during the encoding. 0 means therefore "no information", and the encoding is lossless. The price to pay is that you will not gain disc space (and, often, you will even lose some disc space!) Anyway, AFAIK, there is no "lossless-only" video encoder (similar to FLAC for the audio), but most encoders have an option to encode losslessly.

I was under the impression that frames sequential 3-D was the same thing as MVC. I might be completely wrong about that, ...

Frame sequential is different from MVC.
In a BD (or your MKV created with MakeMKV), the two views are encoded differently. The "main view" (that can be viewed in 2D with any 2D BD player, unless a software limitation prevents it for commercial reasons) is encoded in AVC (h264), exactly like on a 2D BD. The other view, called "dependent view", is encoded in MVC (Multi-View Codec). MVC is basically AVC, but instead of encoding the view normally, it's the difference with the main view that is encoded. That "difference only" stream contains less information than the normal view, and is therefore much easier to compress. But of course, to decode it, the BD player (or Kodi...) has to decode it together with the other view. It's why the MVC view is "dependent".

BTW, that means that if you have a sync problem between the two views, that may mean that the MVC frames will be decoded with the wrong frames from the AVC stream, and that creates many problems. However, a good player (Kodi?) may resync the two views after a small glitch, thanks to the time codes of the two video views. Unfortunately, that's not possible with tools based on the frame number, like Avisynth and therefore also BD3D2MK3D.

In the other hand, Frame Sequential is just a single stream encoded in AVC (or HEVC), with the frames for the two eyes interleaved, one after each other. The compression is less efficient, since there is no gain due to the MVC trick, but there is no problem related to the dependence of a stream to the other one. Therefore, it's a format that is easier to decode, and it is supported by more players.

... but can you tell me what format doesn’t lose any resolution, but is more universally playable? is frame sequential 1080 on both eyes?

As explained above, FS is a good format, but not really universal. Many players cannot handle it.

More widely supported are Full-SBS and Full-TAB (aka FSBS, FOU...) You don't lose half the resolution like with HSBS or HTAB, and if you encode in CRF 0, you will have exactly the same quality than on the original BD (unless there is a major sync problem of course). Also, as Ennio wrote, the 3D standards do not really exist, although they are currently well established for HSBS and HTAB. Encoding in Full-SBS/TAB is more advanturous, notably due to the way different players interpret the aspect ratio values stored in the files: Is the AR defined for the two views, stacked together horizontally or vertically, of for the final, decoded view ? That has never been clearly defined. So, for compatibility, HSBS and HTAB are the best options, but the resolution is, well, not perfect ! Note also that FSBS, FTAB (and often FS) require an UHD capable hardware, as the images are usually too big to fit in the buffers of Full-HD hardware decoders.

Of course, you are right: re-encoding (in CRF 0 or any other mode) requires some time, but IMO, it's not really a problem with a descent CPU.

But in your case, since you are happy with AVC+MVC 3D, try my previous suggestion: remux the original streams with Mkvtoolnix. With some luck, the sync problem will not be an obstacle, but honestly, for that particular point, I don't know. (The original subtitle streams are the one without the 2D and 3D extensions. The other streams are easy to recognise.)

[lejeanlouis]

Hello,
I am trying to convert a MVC 3d video ripped by Makemkv to SBS 3D as I'm used do
But the size of my video is 720p and BD3D2MK3D only accept 1080p source file.
Is there a way to upscale my video to 1080p and will it work well ?
I have made a few tries with ffmpeg without success. I looks like ffmpeg can't manage MVC 3D files but I'am not sure at all.

[r0lZ]

I see. Indeed, currently, BD3D2MK3D requires the "standard" 3D resolution of 1080p. I will try to remove that limitation. If it's possible easily, I will release a new version. But that may require several days. In the meantime, can you tell me what movie it is ?

[lejeanlouis]

Thank you if it's possible.
The movie is a documentary, the Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Film in 3d.