convert super 8mm film - what device to buy

[Prototype v1.0]

Hi.

I have a lot of film rolls of Super 8mm from many years ago, and so I have decided to try to get a device that can scan/convert the film rolls into video. However, I'm not able to get usable information from internet to compare those devices and see what is best.

The film scanners I have looked at so far is:

1. Kodak SCANZA
Not found any source on web that shed any light on this one is capable of scanning film (*) rolls. Seems that it can only be used to scan a single negative at a time.
ebay link

2. Somikon HD-XL-Film-Scanner
ebay link

3. Wolverine F2DMM100 8 mm & Super 8 Movie Reels to Digital Movie Maker
ebay link

4. Reflecta Scanner Super 8
ebay link
Information url : bhphotovideo.
This description suggest it must be used with a windows computer and requires the "CyberView S8 software" to adjust, this is not a positive thing.

So question is - what is the best alternative for scanning Super 8mm film rolls?
The reviews I've found on youtube so far doesn't get in-dept regarding video quality or build quality on the machine itself.

If possible to compare them against each other, this is the most importan aspects for me:

• MUST BE ABLE TO OPERATE W/O COMPUTER. It must operate properly without being in need of a computer.
• The quality of the video itself. I rather want a bounch of 14MP images over a finnished mp4 file, that way I can use the software of my own chioce to compress the video file.
• Genera image quality. It is important that it doens't "white out" on bright areas - but maintain the color dynamic from the tape.
• Build quality (1) of the device. I don't want to spend money on a product that only last for like 200 film rolls, and then it decides to die.
• Build quality (2) : It is important that the device doesn't make any damage to the rolls. Also, it's not a good sign if the device is so poorly made that it requires a human to baby-sit it.

Those above isn't absolute demands, but wishes I have and if possible to compare against each other.

Those listed above is those I found on ebay by searching, but if you can suggest better models (i.e. better quality), or have first hand experience with one of the models listed, then let me know


Thanks in advance


* In norwegian there is distinctive different words for "still image photos" and "film that contains many still image pictures that makes impression of movement when scrolling", but I realize that when I use the term "film" in english language, it (by web searching) doesn't seem to differentiate between still image negatives and "movie film strip". So when I use the word "film" in my post, I refer to a film strip (on a roll) or video sequence.

[sum_guy]

I know the Kodak won't work, it just takes an image in the film and turns it into a single Jpeg image. The Wolverine has the most positive (70) reviews. I have no working knowledge of these machines, so I'm basically just pointing out what was obvious to me. Good luck with your decision, maybe someone else can assist here.

[DB83]

Have you read this topic:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/366069-The-Reflecta-Super8-film-scanner-to-avi-conversion-thread

Seems that the original Reflecta would scan to jpegs but you would have to be careful since the s/w would delete them after it created the avi.

But are you really serious about just wanted high-definition jpegs given the amount for even the smallest super 8 reel ?

I can also recall back in the day when I considered such a process that there was a company that, at a price, would modify projectors to transport a frame at a time. But you still needed a camera (some even higher-priced units came with one) to relay the image under the control of software to a computer. The name 'work-printer' comes to mind but I have not found any active links.

[hdfills]

i use a wolverine device and it does a great job and i touch up the image in sony vegas ... slow process but worth it every time

[Prototype v1.0]

I know the Kodak won't work, it just takes an image in the film and turns it into a single Jpeg image. The Wolverine has the most positive (70) reviews. I have no working knowledge of these machines, so I'm basically just pointing out what was obvious to me. Good luck with your decision, maybe someone else can assist here.

Thank you for this helpful information

Have you read this topic:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/366069-The-Reflecta-Super8-film-scanner-to-avi-conversion-thread

Thanks for this link. So the Reflecta seems to have some issues. At least in 2014.

Seems that the original Reflecta would scan to jpegs but you would have to be careful since the s/w would delete them after it created the avi.

Noted, so that is a feature not wanted.

But are you really serious about just wanted high-definition jpegs given the amount for even the smallest super 8 reel ?

If possible, yes but not an absolute requirement.

I can also recall back in the day when I considered such a process that there was a company that, at a price, would modify projectors to transport a frame at a time. But you still needed a camera (some even higher-priced units came with one) to relay the image under the control of software to a computer. The name 'work-printer' comes to mind but I have not found any active links.

About a year ago, I saw a similar machine on ebay (can't find it now) where a camera was hooked up like that. But it was wery expensive, about $2k i think.

i use a wolverine device and it does a great job and i touch up the image in sony vegas ... slow process but worth it every time

Thanks. How are the video quality of your device ?

[Prototype v1.0]

Update

Now I have watched the movies using the original projector (bought back in the 80's), and unfortunately most are more or less out of focus. Therefore I came to the conclusion that there is no point using insanely amount of money to get maximum quality.

So I'l probably purchase a Wolverine Super 8 Film Scanner.

But to my surprise, the price is varying between seemingly same device - could there be actual difference between those two (links below):
$395:
Wolverine 8mm & Super 8 Reels to Digital MovieMaker Pro Film Digitizer, Film Scanner, 8mm Film Scanner, Black (MM100PRO) - by Wolverine

$279 8mm & Super 8 Reels to Digital MovieMaker Film Sanner,Pro Film Digitizer Machine with 2.4" LCD, Black (Film 2 Digital Movie Maker&8mm Film Scanner) with 32 GB SD Card - by eyesen

I'm puzzling about the price difference, could that actually be the very same model ?


[edit] Forum software have altered my links - the last part of the link (movie maker) is not something I have made.

[JoeS99]

I have a Wolverine PRO. Just be aware that the other scanner digitizes at a frame rate of 30 fps where the Wolverine PRO does so at 20 fps.
The files will play back faster than the 18 fps which the 8mm/Super 8 cameras operated at. The Wolverine PRO is closer to the original speed.
I've used Windows Movie Maker to slow down the video to 85 %. Movie Maker only provides a wmv output file, at least with Windows 7.

Is there other software that can provide speed adjustment at a reasonable price or free?

[dellsam34]

Do your films have sound? If so that adds to the complexity of the project. As far as I can see none of those scanners have sound capability.

[Prototype v1.0]

Is there other software that can provide speed adjustment at a reasonable price or free?

I prefer Avidemux for the purpose of cutting and compression video files. You can easily cut video clip lossless.

Do your films have sound? If so that adds to the complexity of the project. As far as I can see none of those scanners have sound capability.

No, it doesn't have sound.


[edit]
Now when I'm thinking on it, Avidemux is capable of adjusting frame rate, but the function is a filter, so I don't think you can change the frame rate without re-encoding the video.

[JoeS99]

Is there other software that can provide speed adjustment at a reasonable price or free?

I prefer Avidemux for the purpose of cutting and compression video files. You can easily cut video clip lossless.


[edit]
Now when I'm thinking on it, Avidemux is capable of adjusting frame rate, but the function is a filter, so I don't think you can change the frame rate without re-encoding the video.

It's been a while since I tried Avidemux. Will have to get the latest version and see. I would expect it to re-encode.
The Windows Movie Maker shows a noticeable loss of quality sometimes.

[newlife007]

I have been using Wolverine F2DMM100 which captures up to 5" reels at 720P/30 fps and it does a good job. using MKVToolNix to change the MP4 to 18 fps. At that point the file is saved in Matroska format (mkv). From there I typically change the format with ffmpeg back to MP4 and edit with Sony Vegas Pro or Shotcut. For years used a Moviestuff Sniper Pro for frame by frame captures until it died finally after thousands of feet transferred. Looked for a more affordable option until can afford a newer Moviestuff model and this has worked well.

Been looking at the newer Wolverine MM100PRO model with the changes in the ability to handle up to 9" reels and 1080P/20 fps features as a stop gap. Just make sure whatever path you take to capture that you clean and lubricate the film for better captures using any machine.

[Barrythecrab]

All these film transfer machines need lossless capture, in my opinion, but to my knowledge nobody has ever hacked one.

[Prototype v1.0]

All these film transfer machines need lossless capture, in my opinion, but to my knowledge nobody has ever hacked one.

Totally agree. And I'd gladly paid hundred bucks more to get such features (or rather unlocking features that one should take for granted).

Unrelated to topic: A couple of years ago I started to play with raw photos (I have a Sony RX100 pocket camera) using Rawtherapy. And boy o'h boy what an avalanch of feature that opened up that I didn't know was possible.
Also, many flatbed/negative scanners does actually have the means to produce raw output, but normally the software that ships with package is focused on being beginner-friendly and therefore doesn't support such features.

[super8rescue]

As it happens the Wolverine scanner has now been modded by a chap called Stan, in Florida.

It is not commercially available but there are around 10 or 15 in existence at this point.

I have recently modded my wolverine 720 scanner with the new board and camera.

The mod cost me around £200, the new camera and lens was £160

It takes jpg or png or tiff images and I use VirtualDub to compile the video.

That means I can create uncompressed video for later editing, or go straight to h264 mp4 video

It is also being given the option of a sprocket to pull the film through for broken sprocket holes, altho I don't have that option.

It's a massive leap forward. Capturing stills from cine is much better than the mp4 the wolverine spits out.

Still some snags to sort out with exposure during capture, but my results are beginning to look good.

The camera is an Imaging Source unit (and lens)

https://www.theimagingsource.com/products/board-cameras/usb-2.0-color/dfm72buc02ml/

And IC Capture software for the capturing of the stills at one frame per second in jpg or one frame per 2 seconds for tiff.

I use an Acer Revo computer for stills capture, to memory card.

I have been using the 720p Wolverine for around 3 years now.

For frame rate change without re encoding for regular wolverine users, get a copy of My MP4Box GUI from the tools section in this website:

open mymp4 and choose the demux tab
add a video
click demux
this will generate an H264 video in the same folder as the source.
choose the MUX tab and add the h264 video
in the bottom window for fps, select your desired fps. Hit the Mux button.
18 fps isn't there, so you can go to the view menu, choose 'edit command line' and when you hit the MUX button, a command line will open, insert any fps you like, where is says fps= click save and run. job done.

This will adjust the frame rate without any re encoding.
You can only demux one file at a time, but it will batch mux a pile of video at once.
If you use the batch, ignore the warning about adding a file with only one stream.
Cine scans done frame by frame on the Wolverine don't have an audio file.

This software can also be used to join up broken scans, for example, when you have to stop the Wolverine for a broken sprocket, and end up with multiple video clips for the same reel of cine, again, with out re encoding.

Here is a shot of the modded scanner, during the mod process, with the new camera in place, on a newly designed circuit board which replaces the original board. The USB lead from the board, is plugged in to the camera, and laptop. The opto coupler on the claw triggers the capture which is then saved to computer via USB


[Attachment 51324 - Click to enlarge]

[super8rescue]

Here is an example of the modded wolverine scan.
albeit at you tube, but looking much better than the stock mp4 video created by the Wolverine.
These are jpg images complied in VirtualDub
https://youtu.be/cyYmc2VSMY8

[Prototype v1.0]

Have being waiting because I think the volverine thing is just too low quality.

But then I came across this device (ebay link). But that is a whole lot more costly, so I'm curious if anyone have any experience using a similar device like this ?

[Prototype v1.0]

Little update.

I had a chat with some local video folks about this issue, and the claim is that I should be able to achieve a result that is not worse by using a regular video camera, a canvas and a super 8 projector. And for this I do have every tool neccesary to start capturing using the equipment I already possess.

[FMR]

delete

[Sajmon]

Hi. I have a question. Can anyone send me original file in mp4 format from any of these devices : Wolverine, Reflecta, HS? I would like to see quality of image from it and try to work with this file on my editing software. I would try to add Neat video filter and find out how it works. Thanks a lotand sorry for my english.

[nicholasserra]

Hey folks, which Wolverine is Stan using for his modded version? Guessing the pro?

Figured i'd pick up the one he's using, do some passes without the mod, and then go down the rabbit hole later.

https://www.amazon.com/Wolverine-Digital-MovieMaker-Digitizer-MM100PRO/dp/B0785H3FGN/

[newlife007]

The output is good on the Wolverine Pro, you still need to fix the fps and set it to 18 fps from the mp4 that is generated. Further processing is needed to cleanup the grain and colors. I am using Film9 that is no longer being developed but it is using VirtualDub and Avisynth to do the work. I just upgraded to the Wolverine Pro to do 9 inch reels and have been happy so far with the results.

[Darryl In Canada]

I also looked into the Wolverine and similar. After a lot of reading and YouTube videos, I concluded that these old home movies that were very special to me and my family needed to be captured in the bets possible way, which is 2024 is a Lasergraphics scanner. There are a lot of home-based businesses that have one and offer this service. I recommend Reel Revival Film near Philadelphia, but I'm sure there are all equally good.

I attached a screen grab from the raw Super8 video captured by the Lasergraphics scanner. Also attached is a screen grab from the VHS copy of a similar scene from another Super8 film that was recorded in the late 1990s with a professional telecine machine and saved to VHS tape. So the quality is better than most wall-projected telecine transfers. Even as respected as that transfer was, the Lasergraphics is clearer and you can get it some at 4K or higher, which is overkill in a sense, but the benefit is that the noise is smaller and easier for QTGMC or Neat to remove.

[ozymango]

I know this is an old thread, but for anybody wanting to build their own 8mm to video telecine system, you can do it for a few hundred bucks, or a lot less depending on what kind of junk you've got in your video and movie parts pile, check out the sample footage (and DIY guide links) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhrKO1cEo7U