Hauppauge Colossus 2 can't see HDMI output from Onkyo AVR

[BOMOON]

Hello Everyone,

I have an HDMI connection problem with the Hauppauge Colossus 2. In a nutshell, the two capture programs bundled with the Colossus 2 (WinTV 8 and Hauppauge Capture) can't see HDMI A/V output from an Onkyo TX-RZ620 AVR. The message displayed by both programs "no signal".

However the Colossus 2 programs can see HDMI A/V outputs from a DirecTV genie and a Roku Ultra.

Presumably there are differences between the DirecTV, Roku Ultra, and Onkyo HDMI output signals that cause this inconsistency somehow.

I'm not sure where to begin troubleshooting this issue. I don't even know if the problem is with the capture software, the Colossus 2 hardware, or both.

For now I've tried connecting the Onkyo HDMI output to 2 other TVs and verified that the A/V signal is present and works fine for the TVs. So why can't the Colossus (or the apps) see any signal?

Anyone have any rough ideas about what might be going wrong here? If I need to post additional information, please let me know.

Thanks for your time,
Alan Mintaka

[DB83]

Possible HDCP output from the unit not present on the others ?

[BOMOON]

Hi DB83,

I had a feeling that my first explanation was lousy. What I didn't include were the details of where the Onkyo gets its A/V signals.

I'm routing the HDMI output of the DirecTV and the Roku Ultra (selected by HDMI switch) through the Onkyo to the Colossus 2. I'm doing this because the Roku specifically does not decode surround sound formats. In Roku support's words,

Although most Roku streaming players do not decode surround sound formats such as Dolby® Digital Plus™ or DTS®, they can pass through the signal to an audio/video receiver (AVR), soundbar, or TV, that is capable of decoding surround sound.

I don't know if the DirecTV genie surround output is decoded or not.

The reason I'm doing this: when I connected the HDMI output of the DirecTV or Roku Ultra directly to the HDMI input of the Colossus 2, the only audio format I can capture is AAC stereo. I wanted to see if the decoded surround sound output by the Onkyo could be captured as AC-3.

In the Colossus 2 settings there are options to "Prefer AC-3 Audio" and "Permit AC-3 over HDMI" but so far these have not worked.

For all those long-winded versions, I don't think HDCP is the problem. That's because I have no problem capturing A/V directly from the DirecTV and Roku Ultra. Adding the Onkyo to the loop should not be adding HDCP protection somehow.

Hope that clears some things up,
Alan Mintaka

[Brad]

My Denon AVR-890 has always-on HDCP on the output, even when feeding in unprotected analog sources or viewing the internal menu system of the AVR.

[DB83]

From the advanced manual for the AVR

"The unit supports Revision 1.4 and Revision 2.2 of the
HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), a copyprotection
system for digital video signals. Other devices
connected to the unit must also support HDCP."

[BOMOON]

From the advanced manual for the AVR
"The unit supports Revision 1.4 and Revision 2.2 of the
HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), a copyprotection
system for digital video signals. Other devices
connected to the unit must also support HDCP."

Sigh. I see that now. The unit came with a hardcopy of the basic version only. I didn't even know an advanced version existed until now.

Ufortunately my ignorance extends to HDCP. I thought that as long as I didn't connect multiple devices to the Onkyo's output, I'd be OK. I figured that's probably why the Onkyo has a setting to enable one of the two HDMI outputs. You can select either one, but not both.

But that quote from the manual suggests that the problem is really that the Colossus 2 itself doesn't support HDCP.

If that's the case, though, does that mean that the DirecTV Genie and Roku Ultra don't support HDCP? If they do support it, how can the Colossus 2 see their outputs when they're connected directly to the card?

Thanks for bearing with me while I sort this out,
Alan Mintaka

[DB83]

Regarding HDCP and the capture card:

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/webstore/webstore_colossus2.html

which suggests that neither of these devices send HDCP

Another topic to read and potential but now qualified solutions (further links in topic)

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/388549-Hauppauge-Colossus-2-video-issues-no-picture

[BOMOON]

Regarding HDCP and the capture card:
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/webstore/webstore_colossus2.html
which suggests that neither of these devices send HDCP
Another topic to read and potential but now qualified solutions (further links in topic)
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/388549-Hauppauge-Colossus-2-video-issues-no-picture

Thanks DB83,
Yeah, I think you're right about the DirecTV and Roku. Hauppauge is suggesting a number of device that don't support HDCP, and the Genie and Roku Ultra are probably in that category, while the Onkyo is not.

From all the forum posts in your links it looks like the one consistent working solution is to use component instead of HDMI input. Other ideas mention converters of various types but include a caveat that it might not be legal to use them.

I have done component caps with the Colossus 2 (and Colossus before that). Unfortunately with component video I've never been able to do better than 720p captures for 1080i sources. I don't think it'll do 1080p, which is what I really want. And of course the audio was never AC-3.

This all really started because I want to get the Colossus 2 to capture AC-3 audio. I've never been able to do that, even with AC-3 audio set up in the settings. I thought that maybe the problem involved decoding of the audio output, which the Roku specifically does not do according to their docs. I wanted to see if the Onkyo was decoding the audio out and if I could get AC-3 with that.

Ah well, I may just have to write this one off, unless you have other ideas floating around. But thanks for all the help and links. At least I learned a little more about HDCP and how the Colossus 2 handles it.

Thanks again and have a good one,
Alan Mintaka

PS: don't those things hurt in there? I go into a sneezing fit whenever I look at your avatar. But after all,
"Whatever gets you through the night,
is all right, all right"
--John Lennon

[DB83]

It is not for me to comment on the legality of using devices such as HDMI-splitters to circumvent HDCP. The 'qualified' comment was that whilst these worked in the past it appears that even some from the same manuf no longer do so.

As for the two knitting needles and the knotted handkerchief, I blame Baldrick for that. I am mad enough without them

[oln]

I picked up a HDMI splitter to get around HDCP a few months ago as noted in another thread, which worked, granted that was with a 12 year old dvd-recorder. I don't know if it's doable with the newer HDCP standards. There is a bit more incentive to stop people from copying stuff from modern 1080+ sources than SD sources (i.e DVDs) where the encryption has been cracked years ago anyhow.

Anyhow, if you're purely after the AC3 audio, maybe you could grab it from the S/PDIF outputs instead?
EDIT: Forgot S/PDIF can be copy protected as well.