Right way to Video Scaling

[dssdd]

hi guys

i take 4k video and out it in 1080 after corrections.
so i also want to have some feature to "zoom" some parts, and some stay orig.scale and for it my project must be 1080p.
so the problem is;
that when in 1080p project in effects control panel - "motion" i just scale 4k footage to 50% -
in premiere even in full quality - no problems.
but it become a problem after render..
i render 2 files:
first one is just render this 1080p project with scaled to 50% 4k footage, inside effects control panel - "motion"
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/9lAJIO8.jpg
and next one is 4k project exported, with lanczos scale in export settings, to 1080p.
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/mNMfPBv.jpg
so lanczos have no problems and same as i see it in PR preview, but first one have black lines artifacts on sky..

so how can i fix this? maybe dont use default "motion" setup and there is some lanczos plugin?
or some different ways?
please teach me right way to scale video in project PemierePro

best regards

[smrpix]

It may be the difference between Premiere's "set to frame size" vs "scale to frame size."

Here's a good description of the difference:
https://premierepro.net/scale-frame-size-vs-fit-frame-size/

[dssdd]

It may be the difference between Premiere's "set to frame size" vs "scale to frame size."
Here's a good description of the difference:
https://premierepro.net/scale-frame-size-vs-fit-frame-size/

i try "Scale to Frame Size" also
but unfortunately it did pic more sharp and thin black lines become stronger..
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/rZaje2D.jpg
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/H6XNIxX.jpg
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/KmrfGp2.jpg

[poisondeathray]

What were your settings in terms of mercury playback and MRQ ?

Mercury playback set to GPU (CUDA or OpenCL) should always use lanczos2 + bicubic lowpass when exporting, regardless of MRQ on/off

MRQ only affects CPU scaling exports (bicubic vs bilinear)

[dssdd]

What were your settings in terms of mercury playback and MRQ ?

im on Nvidia, so i use CUDA on mercury. but i cant fing find what is MRQ?
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/C2s17Fm.jpg

[poisondeathray]

MRQ = maximum render quality

There are 2 places, the sequence settings, and export settings . Export settings supercede the sequence settings

Eitherway this shouldn't matter in terms your scaling issue because CUDA enabled always means it uses the same algorithm when exporting, regardless of MRQ on/off

So there must be something else going on

[dssdd]

MRQ = maximum render quality

ah, yeah ofc i use it ON.

so what can i do?
only way i see is put some scale plugin that have lanczos option, after all effects.
here is any filter for premiere with lanczos??

[poisondeathray]

I'm not entirely clear on why/how you are seeing those results . Maybe some other settings were changed ?

Are you dynamically "zooming" (keyframes) ? If not, a workaround is you can just intercut between 2 versions

[dssdd]

I'm not entirely clear on why/how you are seeing those results . Maybe some other settings were changed ?

Are you dynamically "zooming" (keyframes) ? If not, a workaround is you can just intercut between 2 versions

nothing change, also in prewiuv everything is ok for set to frame size///
zoom is not dynamyc.

so any lanczos plugins there?

[poisondeathray]

I'm not entirely clear on why/how you are seeing those results . Maybe some other settings were changed ?

Are you dynamically "zooming" (keyframes) ? If not, a workaround is you can just intercut between 2 versions

nothing change, also in prewiuv everything is ok for set to frame size///
zoom is not dynamyc.

so any lanczos plugins there?

Post a screenshot of your export settings

If zoom is not dynamic, then you have access to other scaling algorithms if you are willing to use other programs e.g. virtualdub, avisynth , just reimport the scaled versions, intercut

But there should be some 3rd party plugins

eg
https://aescripts.com/gpuresize/

Interpolation filters

    Nearest (pixel-exact)
    Performs nearest neighbor image scaling. It is similar to ‘Draft’ layer quality setting in After Effects, excepting you don’t have to care about layer quality setting anymore, it will always keep your pixels sharp. It could be used for upscaling of pixel art and ’gif style’ animations.
    Bilinear (cheap, classic)
    Performs bilinear image scaling (same as Best layer quality in all versions of After Effects prior to CC).
    Triangle (cubic, smooth, triangle shaped)
    Cubic triangle filter, the weighting decreases with increasing distance from the pixel. It provides slightly better, yet smoother results than the usual bilinear filter.
    Bell (cubic, smooth, bell shaped)
    Smooth cubic filter with Bell-curve.
    B-Spline (smooth spline filter)
    This cubic filter uses B-spline interpolating functions instead of classic cubic splines, which in general yield quite smooth results.
    Catmull-Rom (cubic, very sharp)
    Sharpening cubic filter with Catmull-Rom spline interpolation.
    Mitchell (cubic, neutral)
    Mitchell-Netravali's separable cubic filter, good for downsampling real-world images. Very precise filter without blurring yet without much ringing/sharpening.
    Lanzcos3/Lanzcos4/Lanzcos6 (HiQ, sharp)
    Lanzcos (pronounced "LAHN-tsosh") is named after a Hungarian mathematician and probably the best filter in terms of detail preservation and sharpness while resampling ‘usual’ real-world images. Lanzcos3/Lanzcos4/Lanzcos6 are performing filtering with the size of the window equal to 3,4 and 6 pixels respectively.
    Kaiser (HiQ, smooth)
    Kaiser-Bessel window filter; very good results, but smoother than Lanzcos.

But this only lists CC2015 , not sure if it's compatible with newer versions

[dssdd]

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;2559873]

you are willing to use other programs e.g. virtualdub, avisynth , just reimport the scaled versions

its long time! and i dont need use other soft if i can do same with AME. but it takes many time and work for encode reimport etc..
which one settings? codec? i export in prores4444 so it not export problems.
it problem how corrections work with this scale. so that the reason why i wanna try put pluguin with lanczos after all cors.
i try your pluguin thank you. but maybe something more simple

[poisondeathray]

Were you using a 3rd party plugin like Voukoder to export and scale in the 2nd case ? Is that the "lanczos" you were using ? Because that is different than Adobe's Lanczos 2tap with lowpass

There are different types and implementations of lanczos. Which one were you using ? Usually lanczos means 3 tap lanczos

[poisondeathray]

but it takes many time and work for encode reimport etc..

Sure, it's nicer/easier with a plugin

It's nice to have other scaling options. Because lanczos3 can cause ringing / artifact in other situations. If it works here, there can be other issues in other situations. It's not perfect.

But there are ways to do it with a script through avisynth or vapoursynth, using avfs . It might be complicated for someone new to this workflow. It's basically a text file, and that creates a "virtual" file . There is no wasted time re-encoding . No wasted HDD space ( a few KB) . It' s just a resized "virtual" version of the the video, frameserved back into Premiere

[dssdd]

Were you using a 3rd party plugin like Voukoder to export and scale in the 2nd case ? Is that the "lanczos" you were using ? Because that is different than Adobe's Lanczos 2tap with lowpass

There are different types and implementations of lanczos. Which one were you using ? Usually lanczos means 3 tap lanczos

ah, yes, for last pic i use lanczos with Voukoder. i give it final 4k prores4444 footage and just scale it to 1080 with lanczos filter.

[dssdd]

but it takes many time and work for encode reimport etc..

But there are ways to do it with a script through avisynth or vapoursynth, using avfs . It might be complicated for someone new to this workflow. It's basically a text file, and that creates a "virtual" file . There is no wasted time re-encoding . No wasted HDD space ( a few KB) . It' s just a resized "virtual" version of the the video, frameserved back into Premiere

ou, i dont know scripts..sorry

[poisondeathray]

Were you using a 3rd party plugin like Voukoder to export and scale in the 2nd case ? Is that the "lanczos" you were using ? Because that is different than Adobe's Lanczos 2tap with lowpass

There are different types and implementations of lanczos. Which one were you using ? Usually lanczos means 3 tap lanczos

ah, yes, for last pic i use lanczos with Voukoder. i give it final 4k prores4444 footage and just scale it to 1080 with lanczos filter.

That's important information you should have included in the 1st post

but it takes many time and work for encode reimport etc..

But there are ways to do it with a script through avisynth or vapoursynth, using avfs . It might be complicated for someone new to this workflow. It's basically a text file, and that creates a "virtual" file . There is no wasted time re-encoding . No wasted HDD space ( a few KB) . It' s just a resized "virtual" version of the the video, frameserved back into Premiere

ou, i dont know scripts..sorry

It's actually not that bad...

But you can try that plugin , there might be others but I don' t know of any offhand .



The real answer is there is no "right" way to scale. Each has pros/cons. You might need to use different scale algorithms in different situations

[dssdd]

I did a test with the GPUrender plugin, and to compare the frames, re-rendering the project. I also thought that there might be conflicts between the GPU and NVENC and the GPU plugins, so I also rendered it with the usual prores.
but .. that on the usual, that on NVENC, these artifacts are no longer on any version ..
apparently these are bugs. I have not changed the project for the last two days .. I don’t know whose particular bug it was, but it is annoying because it is not clear how to protect myself from this.

[poisondeathray]

I did a test with the GPUrender plugin, and to compare the frames, re-rendering the project. I also thought that there might be conflicts between the GPU and NVENC and the GPU plugins, so I also rendered it with the usual prores.
but .. that on the usual, that on NVENC, these artifacts are no longer on any version ..
apparently these are bugs. I have not changed the project for the last two days .. I don’t know whose particular bug it was, but it is annoying because it is not clear how to protect myself from this.

What kind of bugs ? You need to communicate the observations clearly and submit a bug report if you want things fixed . Or worse, there might be unrealized bugs that might affect other parts of this project or other projects

So , NVEnc, using voukoder was not affected by anything (even default scaling in the motion settings)?

Was it only prores exported through voukoder affected ? Can you reproduce the problem when using prores ?

What about other export formats with voukoder, or without voukoder (native exports with Adobe not using voukoder)

[dssdd]

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;2559996]

What kind of bugs ? You need to communicate the observations clearly and submit a bug report if you want things fixed .

I don’t know whose particular bug it was, but it is annoying because it is not clear how to protect myself from this.

it just give artifacts every render, and few days after it gone..how can i know..i dont change project, anything..
i also wrote that all formats is ok for now..
maybe some issues with RAM, becouse something like neat video have problems with it sometimes. im not a coder.