New PC, pls recommend me a media player etc to test 4k/hdr playback

[hydra3333]

Hello I have a new PC with an Nvidia 2060 Super video card and a BenQ EL2870U monitor, both of which can do 4k with HDR.

I am seeking advice on how to test it out, under Win10x64 (with HDR turned on in windows settings) and display clips of 4k with HDR,
and in particular which media player to use.

I have tried MPC-HC with clips downloaded from http://hdr4k.blogspot.com/ however they appear washed-out indicating some sort of tonemappng issue.
Both Windows Media Player in Win10 and also Win10 "Films and TV" refuse to open and play the video in the mkv clips.

So, suggestions welcomed.

Thank you in advance.

edit:
Video clip from here: https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/27/hdr-setup-explainer/ in particular: https://youtu.be/tO01J-M3g0U
(Win10 "Films and TV" seems to play this one nicely).

[october262]

try dvdfab media player - https://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm?trackID=headmenu2

[usually_quiet]

I mostly use VLC 3.0.8 Ventari or PowerDVD Ultra 17 to play UHD HDR-10 video. To check that VLC is set to use hardware decoding so it can play 4K HEVC smoothly, go to Tools->Preferences->Input/Codecs and make sure that Hardware-accelerated decoding is set to "Automatic". VLC uses tone mapping to simulate HDR if the display or the video graphic adapter's HDMI connection is not HDR capable.

PotPlayer can also work for HDR. Set Preferences -> Video -> Surface Format > 10-bit integer and 10-bit output. PotPlayer's default skin includes an HDR button which appears in the middle of the control bar, to the right of to the H/W / S/W button for videos with HDR. Otherwise, it's not present. If the picture appears washed out, click the HDR button. Alternatively, change some settings: Menu - Video - Pixel Shader (S) - Enable SMPTE ST 2084 HDR EOTF Correction and Menu - Video - Pixel Shader (S) - Enable SMPTE ST 2086 HDR EOTF Correction

[Edit]I downloaded and installed a free HEVC decoder from the Windows Store to make HEVC playable with the Windows 10 Films and TV app. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/hevc-video-extensions-from-device-manufacturer/9n4wg...eek:verviewtab

If you are philosophically opposed to using the Windows Store see:https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/393753-Add-Native-HEVC-support-back-to-Windows-10#post2557048

[gonca]

Hello hydra3333
Media player
I use JRiver but any media player that uses MadVR will do, you must set HDR to passthru

Oh, one more thing
Turn HDR OFF (not yelling, just emphasizing) in windows settings

Make sure your monitor switches mode automatically
Use mediainfo to make sure the metadata is present

[hydra3333]

I downloaded and installed a free HEVC decoder from the Windows Store to make HEVC playable with the Windows 10 Films and TV app. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/hevc-video-extensions-from-device-manufacturer/9n4wg...eek:verviewtab

If you are philosophically opposed to using the Windows Store see:https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/393753-Add-Native-HEVC-support-back-to-Windows-10#post2557048

Thank you ! This https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/hevc-video-extensions-from-device-manufacturer/9n4wg...eek:verviewtab seems to be a microsoft product, too, which trends to indicate not-so-risky in terms of (traditional) malware

[hydra3333]

Hello gonca, OK, I'd turned Windows HDR setting on and the monitor told me it went into HDR mode, so I'll go back and turn it off now
I see that madvr mentions mpc-hc in terms "How to setup a HTPC with MPC-HC madVR " so I'll look into that as well to find out what it means.
Thanks for the pointers

[hydra3333]

Crikey, now I'm impressed.

VLC 3.0.8 standalone plays this one a real treat: https://4kmedia.org/lg-chess-hdr-demo/ seemingly without needing to install any other bits ( although I had installed https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/p/hevc-video-extensions-from-device-manufacturer/9n4wg...eek:verviewtab ).

Unless someone suggests a good reason not to, I'll change over to use VLC standalone from now on.

Thank you all.

PS Gonca, re "Turn HDR OFF (not yelling, just emphasizing) in windows settings" it seems to work the same (very nicely) with that HDR windows 10 setting on or off, is there some particular reason you suggest turning that HDR windows setting off ?

[usually_quiet]

Crikey, now I'm impressed.

VLC 3.0.8 standalone plays this one a real treat: https://4kmedia.org/lg-chess-hdr-demo/ seemingly without needing to install any other bits ( although I had installed https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/p/hevc-video-extensions-from-device-manufacturer/9n4wg...eek:verviewtab ).

VLC apparently has its own built-in HEVC decoder feature, as does PotPlayer.

Only Microsoft's own "Movies and TV" app seems to require their HEVC decoder. (In addition to the free "HEVC Video Extensions from Device Manufacturer", there is a paid "HEVC Video Extensions" app available from the Microsoft Store which costs 99 cents. I don't why both of them exist.)

[sneaker]

I have tried MPC-HC with clips downloaded from http://hdr4k.blogspot.com/ however they appear washed-out indicating some sort of tonemappng issue.

MPC-HC does not support HDR out-of-the-box. It needs madvr renderer. In madvr's settings you can activate tonemapping or HDR passthrough depending on your hardware and/or preferences.
Basic install is easy: 1. Install MPC-HC. 2. Install madvr. 3. Select madvr as video renderer in MPC-HC's Output options. 4. In madvr settings set-up HDR (in its display device settings).

[hydra3333]

I spoke too soon re VLC.

In MS's Win10 "Films and TV" some 4k HDR action clips play very smoothly whereas VLC playback is jerky.
That tends to indicate VLC may be doing software decode ? Although a 3900X should eat it for breakfast. The first 2 scenes in this clip https://4ksamples.com/ses-astra-uhd-test-2-2160p-uhdtv/

I went through the VLC settings, I wonder if there's something I missed or mis-interpreted.

Given I have an Nvidia 2060 Super video card which does hardware h264/h265 decode, I'd hoped things would use that.

[sneaker]

What version of VLC are you using? Did you try resetting to default settings? I'm running VLC 3.0.8 64bit with default settings on Windows and the hardware decoding for the video you link is working fine with GTX 1660 Ti. (And as you say your CPU should be able to do this as well. Maybe it is a rendering problem.)

(Tools->Messages (CTRL+M):

[Attachment 49888 - Click to enlarge]

[hydra3333]

Hello sneaker.
VLC 3.0.8 64bit in win10x64 Pro, with newly reset settings. It's the portable version.
The PC is a new 3900X with a 2060 Super video card and running off an nvme ssd drive.
It still stutters.

Your [vout, avcodec] appears to be [direct3d9, dxva2] whereas mine seems to be [direct3d11, d3d11va].

As noted, the Win10 "Films and TV" works fine, so it has to be a setting of some kind like that.

Pending further advice, I'll try to fiddle with some settings to be more like yours and see what happens.

[sneaker]

Maybe it is a problem with the GPU driver + Windows 10 which may be fixed with future Windows and/or Nvidia drives updates. Workaround might be setting a different renderer (e.g. D3D9 like me but could reduce features/quality).

[hydra3333]

Well, none of these made any difference:

[vout, avcodec] at your settings and at mine (chosen by defaults)
win10 game-mode off/on

Giving up on VLC for now, unless you have other suggestions ?

Perhaps it is a driver issues however I wonder why Win10 "Films and TV" works fine.

Having said that, MPC-HC (without HDR) works smoothly.

[gonca]

hydra3333
In the early days that setting was glitchy.
It might also affect the display of sdr images on your desktop
MPC-HC uses MadVR, try it

[teodz1984]

vlc does not use native windows codecs..

[sneaker]

It does access Microsoft's APIs like DXVA2 and Direct3D, though. So hardware decoding and rendering are affected by Windows and its drivers. What's true: it doesn't depend on DirectShow filters like e.g. LAV Filters because it has the ffmpeg based decoders built-in.

[hydra3333]

Couldn't get MPC-HC to recognize madvr was installed
Tried 3 times, uninstall madVR, install (it just registers the .ax), reboot, choose MPC-HC option for madVR... no go, it said madvr not installed. Gave up

EDIT: oops, 64 bit, will try again.

EDIT2: ah, registering the 64bit .ax seems to have done the trick after:

Setting MPC Option ["Playback", "Output"] to "madVR".

And then changing these madVR options:
Devices, [the monitor name] properties, "the native display bitdepth is:" to "10 bit or higher"
Chroma Scaling, to Bilinear (processing done by GPU Texture Units)
Image Downscaling, to DXVA2 (processing done by GPU video logic)
Image Upscaling, to DXVA2
checking all other options say DXVA2 where appropriate.

And then checking these Win10 options:
Display, Play HDR games and apps to On
Display, Windows HD Colour Settings, Play HDR games and apps to On
Display, Windows HD Colour Settings, Stream HDR Video to On

So, MPC-HC with madVR appears to be working.


Is there some way to check whether it is actually outputting HDR and not some HDR->SDR tonemapping magic ?

PS thank you for your patience.

[gonca]

Does your display not have a HDR indicator when content starts to play?
Also, set MadVR HDR to pass thru, which means that the HDR metedata will not be touched by MadVR, therefore no tonemapping

[usually_quiet]

I spoke too soon re VLC.

In MS's Win10 "Films and TV" some 4k HDR action clips play very smoothly whereas VLC playback is jerky.
That tends to indicate VLC may be doing software decode ? Although a 3900X should eat it for breakfast. The first 2 scenes in this clip https://4ksamples.com/ses-astra-uhd-test-2-2160p-uhdtv/

I went through the VLC settings, I wonder if there's something I missed or mis-interpreted.

Given I have an Nvidia 2060 Super video card which does hardware h264/h265 decode, I'd hoped things would use that.

if you set Hardware-accelerated decoding to "Automatic", VLC should be using hardware-accelerated decoding from your NVIDIA 2060.

I'm using my Coffee Lake i5 8400's Intel UHD Graphics 630 for decoding HEVC. Software decoding would not look great. My [vout, avcodec] settings are also [direct3d11, d3d11va].

I tried playing your test clip from https://4ksamples.com/ses-astra-uhd-test-2-2160p-uhdtv/ I didn't notice any difference between players when watching with a Display Port 1.2 connection set to use 2160p59 resolution. If I used an HDMI 1.4 connection set at 1080p59 resolution, panning shots seem smoother using the Movies and TV app than when using VLC. I didn't notice much difference in the action shots.

[sneaker]

Is there some way to check whether it is actually outputting HDR and not some HDR->SDR tonemapping magic ?

If you press CTRL+J during playback madvr's OSD will turn on/off. There you can see most of the stuff it is doing.

[hydra3333]

Thank you.

Should I interpret "D3D11 windowed (8 bit)" means non-HDR display ? If so, I wonder how to get it to 0 bit HDR ?

Does your display not have a HDR indicator when content starts to play?
Also, set MadVR HDR to pass thru, which means that the HDR metedata will not be touched by MadVR, therefore no tonemapping

OK will look for that madVR setting.
I have a displayport 1.4 connection.
Since I have HDR turned on in Win10, the monitor flashes HDR when I start.

[hydra3333]

Gonca, you champion !

Changed these settings
under devices, properties, set "the native display bitdepth is" to "10 bit (or higher)"
under devices, hdr, set "hdr" to "passthrough HDR to display"
under devices, hdr, ensure ticked checkbox "send HDR metadata to the display"
and the OSD changed to look like this:

usually_quiet , thank you for your advice however no matter what I tried in VLC it still stuttered. PC: 3900X, 2060 Super, 16Gb, NVME disks, Win10x64 Pro.

[gonca]

Glad you got it working

[flashandpan007]

OS HDR is used, it should state NV HDR for Nvidia and AMD HDR for AMD cards.
Disable HDR in Windows.

[hydra3333]

Thank you flashandpan007. What's the effects on and off ? Seems to work OK here, the monitor pops up saying HDR on, so I'm unclear at present.

[flashandpan007]

Yes, the TV/monitor displays HDR in OSD info, too, but the screen only gets the correct metadata (HDR info for tonemapping) from madVR if it uses NV HDR or AMD HDR, because then madVR uses the API of each one and HDR metadata is correctly sent to display.

By the way, just take a look at MPC-BE, it can out of the box convert HDR to SDR with built in filters, splitters and decoders, so it is presented correctly on a SDR screen. And without the need for madVR. This is an easier solution, especially for users without a HDR capable display.

I personally use MPC-BE with madVR.

[gonca]

And without the need for madVR. This is an easier solution, especially for users without a HDR capable display.

True for a SDR display, but hydra3333 has stated that his display chain is 4K HDR capable.

[hydra3333]

Thank you, yes a HDR monitor.

I have been looking into and have just given up on playing with transcoding HDR videos using ffmpeg and nvidia's nvenc gpu encoder, on the basis the resulting output does not contain HDR metadata (or "SEI messages"?). A known feature. Oh well.

free sample HDR clips for anyone else trying more successfully:
http://uhdsample.com/31-download-lg-king-of-the-chess-real-oled-4k-uhd-hdr-60-fps-video-sample.html
https://4ksamples.com/ses-astra-uhd-test-2-2160p-uhdtv/

[gonca]

Try using NVEncC, by rigaya. It can and will use and retain the HDR
metada