Trying to match original format in Vegas

[click_one]

I'm working on a project in Vegas 15 and have been using some large AVCHD files.
I've made the edits and would like to save them as closely as possible, to their original format.

My intent is to add the resultant files to DVD Styler and use that for the rendering/resizing, as I've had very good luck w/ that in the past.

Here's what I've got according to MediaInfo.
There are actually 4 audio tracks, which have the same specs as the one listed below. The rest were left out of the posting for space concerns.

Thanks for any insight.



General

Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 24.3 GiB
Duration : 1 h 7 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 51.6 Mb/s
Encoded date : 2019-06-08 13:52:48.000
Writing application : Sony Mem 2.00

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201316001
Duration : 1 h 7 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 47.0 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 50.0 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan type, store method : Separated fields
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.757
Stream size : 22.1 GiB (91%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
transfer_characteristics_Original : xvYCC
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 1 h 7 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 554 MiB (2%)
Locked : Yes

[_Al_]

Did you edited your footage already and used some effects?
Then Vegas internally worked in RGB or has those files in RGB already. So technically the best you can do is export your video using frame server to mpeg2 encoder thru Avisynth/Vapoursynth using RGB24 while serving it out of Vegas. Changing color space to YUV 420 8bit (in Avisynth/Vapoursynth) and encode your DVD m2v directly. You can also make it 32bit floating point in properties in Vegas. Then just import those into DVD Styler. This way you have only one one conversion happening.

If you just cut the footage, Vegas most likely just uses original YUV data for export. You might use lossless codec you have in your PC or Magix Prorez 422 template. Choose level of quality, customize template to your needs.

Or if you do not want to set up frame server that Prorez might be ok as well as an intermediate file.

[Cornucopia]

You must have done SOMETHING to those files already: AVCHD files come as hd avc encoding in MTS files (Mpeg Transport stream), not MXF (unless they've very recently revised the spec).

However, to more directly answer your question, you are going from HD to SD (since you specified DVD). So it does not matter which container you use since you will HAVE to re-encode. If you don't like Vegas' encoder doing the work directly, I suggest you save as lossless interlaced HD files, then open and resize using AVISynth, passing the interlaced output to HCEnc (which is one of the best inexpensive/free SD MPEG2 encoders). Then you'll have SD MPEG2 video (*.M2V) and the original exported LPCM audio (?.WAV). If DVDStyler doesn't like separated streams, mux them together into an *.MPG using TMPGEnc, ffmpeg, or similar muxer.
If you are OK with Vegas' encoder, you probably are ok with their resizer as well, so just export as interlaced SD MPEG2 video files.

Scott

[_Al_]

He cannot encode to mpeg2 directly in Vegas, because Vegas would not encode HD interlace to SD interlace properly. Like any other NLE.

This was topic like decade back and to see some images that are today at least watchable for nowadays standards, he needs to do it outside of Vegas to make a DVD frominterlace HD footage. He can choose many workflows, but almost all of them include Avisynth (Vapoursynth did not existed then). Some workflows included VirtualDub interlace chroma resizers (iResize in Avisynth) and Procoder as mpeg2 encoder hat could be replaced HCEncoder today etc. Or manually bob deinterlace to 59.94p in Avisynth, then resize to SD resolution, then reinterlace, but vertical lines needs to be blurred a bit otherwise footage would flicker.

Edit: sorry, horizontal lines of course

[_Al_]

Actually I found two year old thread where I was active , there are some scripts there,
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/383533-Interlacing-artifacts-when-changing-size-of...terlaced-video

[johnmeyer]

1. If you want to encode with no observable artifacts, use a digital intermediate codec. Vegas comes with several of these, or you can use Cineform. Quoting from an old post by Vegas expert John Rofrano, where he answered the question about best quality rendering from Vegas:

• The "best" would be uncompressed but that is overkill.
• Lagarith is a better "lossless" format because it produces smaller files.
• Sony YUV is also lossless but it produces quite large files. Sony YUV has the disadvantage of only being available in Vegas Pro so it's a horrible "interchange" format.
• Sony MXF 422 @ 50Mbps is visually lossless and very high quality. (I would use this)
• Avid DNxHD is also visually lossless and has the added advantage of being portable across PC and Mac.
• CineForm is also visually lossless but it's not free. [edit: it IS free now, via the GoPro site -- johnmeyer]

2. The MPEG-2 HD interlaced to SD rendering bug was discovered a long time ago. We had an epic 100+ post thread about this in the old Sony Vegas forum. The thread concerned the lousy-quality video many of us felt we were getting from the MPEG-2 encoder built into Vegas, but only when rendering from HD (the quality from SD material was top-notch).

I was the one who stumbled across the solution: make sure to set the MPEG-2 render to upper field first instead of lower field first. This shouldn't make any difference, but it does. After I discovered the bug, Sony (now Magix) never fixed it, probably because the MPEG-2 codec was licensed from MainConcept, and MC most likely was no longer developing it. However, in all Vegas versions from about version 10 onward, the program should now default to upper field first when rendering from HD interlaced. So Sony "fixed" it by simply making sure the field order matches the field order of the footage you are using.

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, that's why I mentioned the "if you don't like Vegas..." bit. Though, there ARE some NLEs that can do interlace->interlace resize correctly (if softly). AVID MC has been able to do this for years.


All depends on whether the OP wants to go the arduous but hiqh quality route, or take a quick & dirty shortcut.

Scott

[johnmeyer]

Vegas does interlaced resizing just fine. The field order issue was something else, a little like what happens when you get the fields out of order, which makes moving objects "shimmer" (its a difficult artifact to describe with just one word).

[click_one]

Many thanks for all the suggestions.
I've gone w/ the Sony MXF 422 @ 50Mbps and it looks great.

When doing the final encoding in DVD Styler, would there be any difference between Progressive or Interlaced?
The source files are interlaced, but I was under the impression that Progressive was better when there was a lot of movement?

Thanks,

[Cornucopia]

60p progressive is best for motion & resolution
then
60i (aka 30i) interlaced is next best for motion
then
30p is mediocre for motion but better for resolution than 60i
and
24p is even moreso mediocre for motion (though we are used to it with film) but also good for resolution

Since DVDs do not support 60p, the best you can get with dvds is 60i (30i) interlaced. Assuming MOTION, not RESOLUTION, is your higher priority. If the reverse is true, go with 30p.
And when I say 30, I also mean 29.97. Same w 60 and 59.94.

Scott

[johnmeyer]

If your original was interlaced, and if you are editing in Vegas, keep your final output interlaced. You lose temporal resolution (i.e., fewer frames/fields per second) if you switch to progressive or, if you ask Vegas to blend the fields, you end up with video that is softer. Either way, your final result will be needlessly degraded.

Progressive is not "better" in any way than interlaced. It is simply different. (Yes, interlaced does require a little more attention to detail when re-sizing ...).