Mastering VHS Video

[SF01]

I am curious If OP has D VHS machine why not record in 1920x180 on DVHS tapes and preserve the original resolution or record digital in SD resolution which will give him fever compression artifacts than DVD why downgrading to VHS if master is played on the same D VHS machine unless is for wide spread use on regular VHS machines which in 2020 is totally obsolete

PAL machines never had HD capability, not digital output. And I do have a D-VHS machine from JVC. The DVDs are some of the sources, I do not want to convert HD to DVD to record on tape. It is obsolete, so are cassette tapes and people still record them, fr the heck of it.

[mammo1789]

PAL machines never had HD capability, not digital output. And I do have a D-VHS machine from JVC. The DVDs are some of the sources, I do not want to convert HD to DVD to record on tape. It is obsolete, so are cassette tapes and people still record them, fr the heck of it.

I tough that it can record in full hd interlaced (not on regular vhs cassettes) but I might be wrong. What I meant by recording digitally on the machine in mpeg2 format on the vhs tape its better than recording on VHS in analog format and lower resolution vhs. It will be second gen mpeg2 encode but still better res and quality than downgrading to vhs format at least there will be no d/a conversion and lower res (if you use ycbcr output of your pc to ycbcr input on d-vhs) you don't need digital output but input to record digitally. If the cassette is intended for regular vhs viewing ( which I doubt in this era of digital playback devices ) then recording analog on vhs tape on d-vhs machine makes sense

[SF01]

PAL machines never had HD capability, not digital output. And I do have a D-VHS machine from JVC. The DVDs are some of the sources, I do not want to convert HD to DVD to record on tape. It is obsolete, so are cassette tapes and people still record them, fr the heck of it.

I tough that it can record in full hd interlaced (not on regular vhs cassettes) but I might be wrong. What I meant by recording digitally on the machine in mpeg2 format on the vhs tape its better than recording on VHS in analog format and lower resolution vhs. It will be second gen mpeg2 encode but still better res and quality than downgrading to vhs format at least there will be no d/a conversion and lower res (if you use ycbcr output of your pc to ycbcr input on d-vhs) you don't need digital output but input to record digitally. If the cassette is intended for regular vhs viewing ( which I doubt in this era of digital playback devices ) then recording analog on vhs tape on d-vhs machine makes sense

MPEG-TS does not support LPCM, so I couldn't care less about D-VHS. I learned this, when I had hijacked a whole thread here to learn how to encode D-VHS video. Once I leanrd it has no LPCM, only compressed aac I lost interest. So DV theough firewire to DV tape and then to analog VHS, because I want the end result to be analog VHS with Hi-Fi Stereo.

[Cornucopia]

MPEG-TS does not support LPCM...

Yes they do/can, else Blu-ray (BDMV/BDAV) and (some, pro) AVCHD which are based on MPEG-TS, would not be able to support LPCM either.

Scott

[SF01]

MPEG-TS does not support LPCM...

Yes they do/can, else Blu-ray (BDMV/BDAV) and (some, pro) AVCHD which are based on MPEG-TS, would not be able to support LPCM either.

Scott

Let me clarify, neither ffmpeg, nor Vegas could encode LPCM in D-VHS MPEG-TS compliant stream, in ffmpeg I would get no audio track, in Vegas no LPCM audio option was available. So I doubt a professional hardware encoder would do that and I won't throw my money to experiment on that.

[mammo1789]

So DV theough firewire to DV tape and then to analog VHS, because I want the end result to be analog VHS with Hi-Fi Stereo.

Why not for Dv tape to Dv in on jvs d-vhs and record like that ( for the dv tapes at least ) less conversation is always better. what is the material that you are trying to record is it concerts and other music related material ?

[SF01]

So DV theough firewire to DV tape and then to analog VHS, because I want the end result to be analog VHS with Hi-Fi Stereo.

Why not for Dv tape to Dv in on jvs d-vhs and record like that ( for the dv tapes at least ) less conversation is always better. what is the material that you are trying to record is it concerts and other music related material ?

Yes, computer to DV to D-VHS in VHS mode would do the trick, if only scenalyzer, or vegas could properly print video to tape... I need to get that Adobe key my student's TV club has. Concerts, either shot by me, or bootlegs from trading, the problem is they are DVDs, rarely LPCM audio, even rarer are PAL DVDs, most got converted to NTSC fo easier trading, hence my question, whether to upscale them back to 576, or just center-pad them and drop 5 frames, that would keep interlacing and won't introduce interlaced upscaling artifacts, SAR will change slightly though.

[johnmeyer]

Yes, computer to DV to D-VHS in VHS mode would do the trick, if only scenalyzer, or vegas could properly print video to tape...

They don't?? I've used both over the years to print directly to DV tape or, using the camcorder's "pass-through," I've also printed back to VHS tape (20+ years ago, when we still did things like that).

[SF01]

Yes, computer to DV to D-VHS in VHS mode would do the trick, if only scenalyzer, or vegas could properly print video to tape...

They don't?? I've used both over the years to print directly to DV tape or, using the camcorder's "pass-through," I've also printed back to VHS tape (20+ years ago, when we still did things like that).

I tried, but Ecenalyzer recorded still image on the camcorder, I didn't try my deck, because it can only record in DVCAM and for 90 minute concert I will need DV LP and it doesn't have passthrough. Vegas claims the video needs to be 98% converted, but the file is native DV straight from tape.

Could you elaborate on how you were able to send DV signal to camcorder and use passthrough to VCR instead of recording into tape? I thought nothing would happen, if the software controlling the camcorder remotely won't detect tape.

[aedipuss]

vegas is rarely wrong. was the dv captured by winDV or vegas? was the audio 16 bit 48khz? i've never had print to tape work with 12 bit 32khz audio. all print to tape software only works on 100% compliant DV. the software can't stop and re-encode in the middle of sending the "stream" to the tape. the tape waits for no one.

[SF01]

vegas is rarely wrong. was the dv captured by winDV or vegas? was the audio 16 bit 48khz? i've never had print to tape work with 12 bit 32khz audio. all print to tape software only works on 100% compliant DV. the software can't stop and re-encode in the middle of sending the "stream" to the tape. the tape waits for no one.

Scanalyzer with Type2 DV (for Premiere, Vegas, etc). Audio only 16-bit, I never recorded in 12bit, so it was 100% compliant, 1:1 copy.

[johnmeyer]

I tried, but Ecenalyzer recorded still image on the camcorder, I didn't try my deck, because it can only record in DVCAM and for 90 minute concert I will need DV LP and it doesn't have passthrough. Vegas claims the video needs to be 98% converted, but the file is native DV straight from tape.

Could you elaborate on how you were able to send DV signal to camcorder and use passthrough to VCR instead of recording into tape? I thought nothing would happen, if the software controlling the camcorder remotely won't detect tape.

I may not understand what you are trying to do.

If you want to take video that is on your computer in DV format, you simply "play" that from the Scenalyzer timeline while connected to the camcorder. That video should show up in the camcorder's viewfinder. If not, go to the menu setting in the camcorder and change the "DV OUT" setting to "DV IN" it may be set to something else. Once you have that set correctly, you should be able to attach either a composite or (if your camcorder has it) and S-video cable to the camcorder and run that to the corresponding video input jacks on your VCR. You don't need a tape in the camcorder and in fact some people just use old broken camcorders for this purpose because the tape drive can be broken, but the DV to analog and analog to DV A/D & D/A still work.

[SF01]

I tried, but Ecenalyzer recorded still image on the camcorder, I didn't try my deck, because it can only record in DVCAM and for 90 minute concert I will need DV LP and it doesn't have passthrough. Vegas claims the video needs to be 98% converted, but the file is native DV straight from tape.

Could you elaborate on how you were able to send DV signal to camcorder and use passthrough to VCR instead of recording into tape? I thought nothing would happen, if the software controlling the camcorder remotely won't detect tape.

I may not understand what you are trying to do.

If you want to take video that is on your computer in DV format, you simply "play" that from the Scenalyzer timeline while connected to the camcorder. That video should show up in the camcorder's viewfinder. If not, go to the menu setting in the camcorder and change the "DV OUT" setting to "DV IN" it may be set to something else. Once you have that set correctly, you should be able to attach either a composite or (if your camcorder has it) and S-video cable to the camcorder and run that to the corresponding video input jacks on your VCR. You don't need a tape in the camcorder and in fact some people just use old broken camcorders for this purpose because the tape drive can be broken, but the DV to analog and analog to DV A/D & D/A still work.

Sounds straightforward, I shall try that. However last time I tried to do that and record on DV tape, it only recorded stll image on a camcorder that supports DV-in, but not passthrough, I shall try with Digital8 camcorder, and HVR-M15AE, both have passthrough. DCR-2000AP theoretically has Electric-Electric mode, but when I tried A->D it wasn't doing it properly in real time, there were lags.

[SF01]

If you want to take video that is on your computer in DV format, you simply "play" that from the Scenalyzer timeline while connected to the camcorder. That video should show up in the camcorder's viewfinder. If not, go to the menu setting in the camcorder and change the "DV OUT" setting to "DV IN" it may be set to something else. Once you have that set correctly, you should be able to attach either a composite or (if your camcorder has it) and S-video cable to the camcorder and run that to the corresponding video input jacks on your VCR. You don't need a tape in the camcorder and in fact some people just use old broken camcorders for this purpose because the tape drive can be broken, but the DV to analog and analog to DV A/D & D/A still work.

I tried both DCR-TRV828E and HVR-M15E, nothing happened, no video in the screen, Scenalyzer's option of printing to tape was waiting for the driver to be in-sync forever, playing the video from Disk did not output the video through FireWire. Vegas was reporting 0x800705aa error, when trying to use the capture video window in the print to tape tab, it could not even open DV videos, without any reason...

[johnmeyer]

Sounds like driver issues. Capturing using anything later than Windows XP sometimes requires you to do a few extra things. This has been discussed in these forums over the years.

[SF01]

Sounds like driver issues. Capturing using anything later than Windows XP sometimes requires you to do a few extra things. This has been discussed in these forums over the years.

Might be, after all I have a Legacy OHCI driver for Firewire and FW - Thunderbolt converter, because my new system has only that, my previous laptop had FireWire, looks like I will have to find my old XP machine.

[johnmeyer]

Sounds like driver issues. Capturing using anything later than Windows XP sometimes requires you to do a few extra things. This has been discussed in these forums over the years.

Might be, after all I have a Legacy OHCI driver for Firewire and FW - Thunderbolt converter, because my new system has only that, my previous laptop had FireWire, looks like I will have to find my old XP machine.

You're doing this on a Mac?

[SF01]

Sounds like driver issues. Capturing using anything later than Windows XP sometimes requires you to do a few extra things. This has been discussed in these forums over the years.

Might be, after all I have a Legacy OHCI driver for Firewire and FW - Thunderbolt converter, because my new system has only that, my previous laptop had FireWire, looks like I will have to find my old XP machine.

You're doing this on a Mac?

Never.

[johnmeyer]

You're doing this on a Mac?

Never.

I only asked because Thunderbolt is a Mac invention (although it does sometimes appear on non-Mac laptops).

[SF01]

You're doing this on a Mac?

Never.

I only asked because Thunderbolt is a Mac invention (although it does sometimes appear on non-Mac laptops).

I am aware, the converter is Apple, though.

[Cornucopia]

@johnmeyer, Dell is putting Tbolt on lots of their corporate/business laptops now, so you'll be seeing more of this on the Win side as well. My new replacement work laptop (Latitude 7400, 32GBram, 500GB m2.SSD) uses it, and it's great!

Scott

[SF01]

As of now, there is no success, I can't send the DV video, perhaps the Thunderbolt is the problem, Scenalyzer can't do that and becomes unstable, buttons disappear, etc, Vegas once can print to tape, or at least prerender, sometimes shows error in the print window...

[johnmeyer]

You never said what version of Windows you are using, and I already told you that with anything other than XP, you'll have to install drivers.

Scenalyzer on XP is 100% stable; I am quite certain of that not only because of the twenty years I used it, but also all the other people I helped use it. There were sometimes issues, but stability like you are reporting was never one of them.

I assume you know how to run programs in compatibility mode, and I suggest you do that with the various programs that are giving you problems.

[SF01]

10.

I'll try running them in compatibility mode.
I have had to install Legacy OHCI FireWire driver to be able to detect camcorders and VCRs in the FW-Thunderbolt adaptor and Scenalyzer works indeed fine when transfering tapes to PC, but the other way around is a problem...

[johnmeyer]

Scenalyzer works indeed fine when transfering tapes to PC, but the other way around is a problem...

If that is true, then this part of your problem is almost certainly caused by not making the change in the camcorder's menu, as I recommended in a previous post. You have to change from DV OUT to DV IN (the menu name may be slightly different).

[SF01]

Scenalyzer works indeed fine when transfering tapes to PC, but the other way around is a problem...

If that is true, then this part of your problem is almost certainly caused by not making the change in the camcorder's menu, as I recommended in a previous post. You have to change from DV OUT to DV IN (the menu name may be slightly different).

It is automatic, with FW cable plugged in "DV IN" appears on the screen. There is no "IN/OUT" switch in the menu, in the manual it says that simply connecting two camcorders and computer and caocorder an playing video on one will make the other the receiver of the signal and the signal should appear. As for the HDV deck, The signal input selector is on iLink.

[johnmeyer]

What is the make and model number of your camcorder? I can take a look at the manual and perhaps find something that will help.

[SF01]

DCR-TRV828E, I also have HVR-M15AE and DCR-2000AP, but the last one had problems in converting in real time analog input to FW in Scenalyzer.

[johnmeyer]

There is no "IN/OUT" switch in the menu, in the manual it says that simply connecting two camcorders and computer and caocorder an playing video on one will make the other the receiver of the signal and the signal should appear. As for the HDV deck, The signal input selector is on iLink.

Two things.

1. I have read the manual and, as I suspected, there IS a setting you must change. Here is the relevant text from the manual:

AV --> DV OUT
OFF: To convert digital video signals into analog video signals via your camcorder.
ON: To convert analog video signals into digital video siginals via your camcorder.

So, you are looking for the menu item labeled "AV-->DV OUT" and it must be toggled depending on which direction the video is going (i.e., going to the computer or from the computer).

2. You said you have an "HDV Deck". Is that really true? If so, that is your other problem. HDV and DV are two different things and in Vegas, you have to use two different apps to capture and to "Print to tape" (the Vegas term for sending video back out to the deck). If you use the HDV settings for DV, it won't work. Also, Scenalyzer is a DV application and if you have something set for HDV, all bets are off.

[SF01]

There is no "IN/OUT" switch in the menu, in the manual it says that simply connecting two camcorders and computer and caocorder an playing video on one will make the other the receiver of the signal and the signal should appear. As for the HDV deck, The signal input selector is on iLink.

Two things.

1. I have read the manual and, as I suspected, there IS a setting you must change. Here is the relevant text from the manual:

AV --> DV OUT
OFF: To convert digital video signals into analog video signals via your camcorder.
ON: To convert analog video signals into digital video siginals via your camcorder.

So, you are looking for the menu item labeled "AV-->DV OUT" and it must be toggled depending on which direction the video is going (i.e., going to the computer or from the computer).

2. You said you have an "HDV Deck". Is that really true? If so, that is your other problem. HDV and DV are two different things and in Vegas, you have to use two different apps to capture and to "Print to tape" (the Vegas term for sending video back out to the deck). If you use the HDV settings for DV, it won't work. Also, Scenalyzer is a DV application and if you have something set for HDV, all bets are off.

I am aware.
1. AV -> DV is turned off.
2. HDV deck is in DV mode. For HDV I use HDVsplit, had HDV supported LPCM, I would try that, same for D-VHS.