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  1. Member
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    I have ripped what seems to be a non-anamorphic DVD to MKV without reencoding it for the purposes of playing it on a TV through Kodi. I tested the resulting MKV on a computer, and it did not look right. The picture was too wide, people's heads were too fat, plus there were additional horizontal bars on top and bottom. So that's definitely not right.

    My primary video player on PC is MPC BE. I started testing different video frame settings and finally got the aspect ratio to display correctly by unchecking "Keep aspect ratio." The playback window got resized to something closer to a 4:3, with a widescreen picture inside the 4:3 window and horizontal black bars on top and bottom. I believe the movie's original aspect ratio was 16:10, but not 100% sure.

    It's still not right that I have to uncheck "Keep aspect ratio" just for one movie (and then change it back when the movie is finished), since all my other BD and DVD rips play fine with that option checked. I assumed the DVD was poorly authored (this is a crappy 70s European movie, probably went straight to video). Perhaps the DVD was missing the correct aspect ratio flag or the black bars were hardcoded into the picture, or both. So I decided to fix it by cropping the black bars and thought that would fix the problem.

    I picked VidCoder for the task, which does the cropping automatically and decided to reencode the movie to HEVC since I was being forced to reencode and lose quality anyway. Confusingly, VidCoder, presented me with 2 options under "Sizing": anomorphic and non-anomorphic. I wasn't sure what that option was for, since the final result was going to be a widescreen movie to be played on a widescreen TV (I thought anomorphic was just something that "letterboxed" widescreen movies on the fly for 4:3 TVs). So I ripped the movie twice, once with "Use anomorphic" checked and once unchecked. Well, neither result came out OK!

    The original video had the following properties:
    Width: 720 pixels
    Height: 576 pixels
    Display aspect ratio: 16:9
    Frame rate mode: Constant
    Frame rate: 25.000 FPS
    Standard: PAL
    Stream size: 3.76 GiB

    The VidCoder anamorphic video has:
    Width: 720 pixels
    Height: 488 pixels
    Display aspect ratio: 2.098
    Frame rate mode: Variable
    Original frame rate: 25.000 FPS
    Stream size: 1.07 GiB

    The VidCoder non-anamorphic video has:
    Width: 720 pixels
    Height: 344 pixels
    Display aspect ratio: 2.093
    Frame rate mode: Variable
    Original frame rate: 25.000 FPS
    Stream size: 745 MiB


    Also, VidCoder provides the following information:

    Original video
    Storage Resolution: 720 x 576
    Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.42 (64/45)
    Display Resolution: 1024 x 576

    Anamorphic
    Storage Resolution: 720 x 488
    Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.42 (64/45)
    Display Resolution: 1024 x 488

    Non-anamorphic
    Resolution: 720 x 344


    I am very confused by the results, especially since none of the videos still play correctly. Can someone help me with these questions:

    1) Why did the non-anamorphic re-encode chop off an additional 144 pixels compared to anamorphic?
    2) Why are the file sizes different for anamorphic and non-anamorphic re-encodes at the same quality setting?
    3) What the heck are 2:098 and 2:093 aspect ratios?
    4) What is "Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.42 (64/45)"?
    5) What is "Display Resolution: 1024 x 576"?
    6) And finally... How do I fix this video?

    Any other relevant information would also help.
    Last edited by Knocks; 5th Aug 2019 at 03:41.
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  2. Member netmask56's Avatar
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    IMdb should give you the aspect ratio of the movie.
    BeyonWiz T3 PVR ~ Popcorn A-500 ~ Samsung ES8000 65" LED TV ~ Windows 7 64bit ~ Yamaha RX-A1070 ~ QnapTS851-4G
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  3. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The original report of 16:9 may be incorrect even if the active part of the video is ws.

    How does the original dvd display on a 16:9 display ? A non-anamorphic 16:9 dvd should display as black bars top and bottom AND left and right. In other words the true AR of the dvd is 4:3.

    That horizontal stretching then makes sense since the 4:3 picture is attempting to fill the 16:9 width (many people also play back 4:3 dvds like this since they do not like side bars)

    Those 144 pixels should equate to the top and bottom bars burnt in to the video. The side-bars are created by the player.

    A correct re-encode is to crop those top and bottom black bars. Resize to 768*432 (576-144) and encode as 16:9.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    How does the original dvd display on a 16:9 display ? A non-anamorphic 16:9 dvd should display as black bars top and bottom AND left and right.bars)
    The original shows a distorted picture (fat heads) AND has black horizontal bars. So it does not behave like a typical non-anamorphic DVD.

    Resize to 768*432 (576-144)
    Why are we subtracting 144? Where is that number coming from?

    and encode as 16:9.
    We don't know that the original is 16:9. It could be 16:10 or 1.85:1.
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  5. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Like I previously said, if you have set your tv and/or player to fill the screen horizontally then you will get fat heads. So do check both the player AND your tv for correct display.

    576-144 = 432 * 16/9 = 768.

    768 is also the true horizontal display of a 4:3 dvd (576/3 * 4)

    Of course the original dvd could be badly authored. Is it possible to upload a sort extract of the original rip to get a better understanding of it. ?
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Like I previously said, if you have set your tv and/or player to fill the screen horizontally then you will get fat heads. So do check both the player AND your tv for correct display.
    It's not my setup. I have played thousands of videos of different resolutions and aspect ratios and they have all played correctly. I'm not one of those people who will fill the whole screen just to get rid of black bars. I respect original aspect ratios. That's the whole reason for this thread. Besides, MPC BE is playing it wrong too. The DVD is bad.

    576-144 = 432 * 16/9 = 768.

    768 is also the true horizontal display of a 4:3 dvd (576/3 * 4)
    I didn't ask you where you got 768 from. I asked you where you got 144 and 432 from. Also, how the heck do you get 768 pixels out of 720??
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  7. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I already explained the significance of 768 as far as PAL is concerned. The 144 (72 top, 72 bottom follows from that) which normally crops the entire letter-box.

    But just to elaborate, 720*480 is NTSC. The actual view for 4:3 is 640. 720 is only the on-disk storage aspect ratio.

    Unless I misunderstand your question and then the answer is just a simple resize.

    If I mis-judged you as far as playback is concerned then I apologise. But your description of 'fat-heads' does tend to fit that.

    No one can force you to upload a sample. But if you really want more assistance........
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  8. Maybe a short sample (as DB83 suggested twice) from the DVD will help, preferably one with something round in it. A tire or clock seen head-on, a ball, a sun or moon, etc. You can cut a short 10-second sample using DGIndex, among other tools.

    Originally Posted by Knocks View Post
    We don't know that the original is 16:9. It could be 16:10 or 1.85:1.
    Originally Posted by Knocks View Post
    Also, how the heck do you get 768 pixels out of 720??
    You're only showing your ignorance of DARs and how DVDs work. A sample is the only way to know what you have and what should be done to fix it.
    Last edited by manono; 5th Aug 2019 at 14:49.
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    The sample is here.

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    You're only showing your ignorance of DARs and how DVDs work.
    I don't consider myself ignorant and have ripped hundreds of discs over the last 15 years. The concern about flagging a 16:10 movie as 16:9 is legitimate. In any case, there are better ways to answer a question than by calling someone ignorant.
    Last edited by Knocks; 6th Aug 2019 at 23:44.
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    This should be resized to 768x576 (or 720x540) then cropped by 44 top and bottom.
    There seems to be some kind of pseudo-interlacing, in Avisynth you can try TFM()
    but I had some inconsistencies, jerky movement, perhaps there's something odd about the source.
    I'm sure somebody here will figure that out. I used

    Code:
    dss2("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\Sample.demuxed.mkv")
    tfm()
    spline36resize(768,576)
    crop(0,44,-0,-44)
    Can also try Vidcoder, automatic crop, manual resize 768x488
    Image Attached Files
    Last edited by davexnet; 7th Aug 2019 at 01:13.
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  11. Originally Posted by Knocks View Post
    I don't consider myself ignorant and have ripped hundreds of discs over the last 15 years. The concern about flagging a 16:10 movie as 16:9 is legitimate.
    No, it's not. There are two DVD DARs and two only, 4:3 and 16:9. So, you've only confirmed my comment.

    Edit: I've seen the sample now. It's obviously not supposed to be 16:9. To me it looks okay as a 4:3 DVD but as there's nothing round in the sample, it's hard to be sure. You can change that without reencoding anything. You can also test that theory without doing anything by having a software player play it as 4:3. In MPC-HC, for example, start the movie and right-click the screen. Go Video Frame->Aspect Ratio->4:3. Other players can do the same. If you decide that's okay and want to make it permanent, then open the IFO in PGCEdit. Right-click on the movie and go Domain Stream Attributes. In the new Stream Attributes screen change it from 16:9 to 4:3. Save the change and test it out before burning back to disk.

    Edit again. The DVD is phase-shifted. If you do decide to reencode it, as davexnet suggested a simple TFM will fix it:

    MPEG2Source("test.d2v")
    TFM()
    #Crop
    #Resize
    Last edited by manono; 7th Aug 2019 at 02:05.
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Thank you for the sample.

    Was it really necessary to upload such a short clip to an external server ? One point of a forum such as this one is that others do search the posts for similar issues. Samples can be uploaded as attachments and are more likely to be still available if and when rather than from an independent source.

    Rant over.

    Since others have already commented on the actual clip there is little for me to add except that my comment about 768 has been mirrored. We do not know the original AR of the film (not the dvd since that has also been explained to you) and my comment about 72 pixels top and bottom were based on..... well I do not think I need to repeat it.

    The film ? I am sure I recognise the actress (German ?) but just can not place her right now (maybe Betty Verges). Maybe she is wearing too many clothes
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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Can I ask one other Q. ?

    Was this a commercial dvd ? Source of acquisition ? I can hardly believe any reputable firm would release a disk in this manner.

    The letter-boxing is also quite narrow which makes me think that whoever prepared it pan/scanned it closer. Something that tv companies did in the past. Or even a VHS source. So you do not get the full image left and right.
    Last edited by DB83; 7th Aug 2019 at 04:36.
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  14. Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    This should be resized to 768x576 (or 720x540) then cropped by 44 top and bottom.
    There seems to be some kind of pseudo-interlacing, in Avisynth you can try TFM()
    but I had some inconsistencies, jerky movement, perhaps there's something odd about the source.
    I'm sure somebody here will figure that out. I used

    Code:
    dss2("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\Sample.demuxed.mkv")
    tfm()
    spline36resize(768,576)
    crop(0,44,-0,-44)
    It also needs a Swapfields() before TFM().
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    This should be resized to 768x576 (or 720x540) then cropped by 44 top and bottom.
    There seems to be some kind of pseudo-interlacing, in Avisynth you can try TFM()
    but I had some inconsistencies, jerky movement, perhaps there's something odd about the source.
    I'm sure somebody here will figure that out. I used

    Code:
    dss2("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\Sample.demuxed.mkv")
    tfm()
    spline36resize(768,576)
    crop(0,44,-0,-44)
    It also needs a Swapfields() before TFM().
    Thanks jagabo
    never seen Swapfields() before, interesting.

    I'm getting some kind of (presumably) decode error corruption. It occurs whether I use FFvideosource or dss2 on the submitted
    MKV, also occurs if I index the MKV with DGindex and use Mpeg2Source. I wonder if something went wrong when the OP ripped the DVD?
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	corrupt.2jpg.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	205.0 KB
ID:	49750  

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  16. The source the OP gave in post #9 was an m2v file (mpeg 2 elementary stream). The MKV file from davexnet has already been processed by his script and encoded as AVC.

    Code:
    Mpeg2Source("Sample.demuxed.d2v", CPU2="ooooxx", Info=3) 
    SwapFields()
    TFM() 
    Spline36Resize(768,576)
    Crop(0,44,-0,-44)
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  17. Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    I'm getting some kind of (presumably) decode error corruption.
    I got it, too. It's in the source. I don't knw if it resulted from cutting the sample or if it's in the source DVD.

    When I add SwapFields before the TFM, it makes the residual interlacing worse, most noticeable with the moving car in the first scene. There's a little without it, more with it. I conclude the real source before DVD was a VHS tape (although I could be wrong) and the solution is either to add Vinverse afterwards, or to use QTGMC(FPSDivisor=2) instead of the TFM.

    Frame 34. The left pic is no swap fields (TFM(pp=0) alone), the right pic is with SwapFields before TFM(pp=0). Without SwapFields and with no PP=0, it doesn't get deinterlaced. With SwapFields added it gets deinterlaced.
    Image Attached Images    
    Last edited by manono; 7th Aug 2019 at 13:30.
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    Thank you for all the answers! The error corruption was caused by DGIndex when making the sample. @DB83 the source is a German DVD, no idea if it's pirate or not, but given the quality of the, ahem, production, it could be legit. I've seen a full-screen 4:3 version of this movie, and it does contain more picture but is worse quality, which made me think this was a matted release and the DVD was just botched in the authoring process, given that it's such a cheap movie that no one cares about. There will probably never be a Blu-ray so I want to fix it as well as possible and archive it.

    If this can be fixed with the original MPEG-2 stream without re-encoding anything, I'd rather do that. But if that will result in black bars on all 4 sides, then I'd rather crop and encode to HEVC (will keep the original to encode to AV1 or future codecs when the time comes).

    I'll wait for the consensus on exactly how to proceed.
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  19. Originally Posted by Knocks View Post
    If this can be fixed with the original MPEG-2 stream without re-encoding anything, I'd rather do that.
    I already explained in detail how to do that.

    As for black bars on all four sides, do you mean when played on a widescreen television or computer monitor? If yes, the player will add black bars on the sides. The black bars above and below will remain but probably be smaller when played on a television because of the overscan.

    It can be easily reencoded to remove the black bars above and below. But the player will add some small amount of black bars to the right and left sides. If you crop 46 from above and below and do an ITU resize, you'll get 720x442, or 780x480. Those are 1.62:1, approximately, while widescreen televisions and most computer monitors are 1.777:1, leaving some black on the sides to make up the difference.

    I don't mind black bars as long as the original aspect ratio is maintained (which the DVD producers already ruined by throwing away video), so my advice is to just convert the DAR to 4:3. Others may have different opinions.
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by Knocks View Post
    If this can be fixed with the original MPEG-2 stream without re-encoding anything, I'd rather do that.
    I already explained in detail how to do that.
    We already knew that the DVD had an incorrect aspect ratio flag and that it was easily fixed by changing aspect ratio in MPC. I described exactly that in the original post. The whole point of this is to fix the video for TV viewing.

    It can be easily reencoded to remove the black bars above and below. But the player will add some small amount of black bars to the right and left sides. If you crop 46 from above and below and do an ITU resize, you'll get 720x442, or 780x480. Those are 1.62:1, approximately, while widescreen televisions and most computer monitors are 1.777:1, leaving some black on the sides to make up the difference.
    Again, I support the use of black bars to maintain the correct aspect ratio. I don't support black bars on 4 sides, which is an artifact of formatting movies for 4:3 TVs and does nothing to support the correct aspect ratio on widescreen TVs. Everything that isn't need for playback on a modern TV should be chopped off.


    I don't mind black bars as long as the original aspect ratio is maintained (which the DVD producers already ruined by throwing away video)
    What makes you think that the DVD producers threw away video? If the movie was shot with matting the top and the bottom, then the director's vision was widescreen and all the shots were composed for widescreen viewing. Nothing was thrown away, they just added extra stuff for VHS viewers.
    Last edited by Knocks; 7th Aug 2019 at 14:59.
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  21. Member DB83's Avatar
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    @Knocks

    I have a thing about German films from the 70/80's - watched tons back in the day direct from various German tv channels. Hence my assumption of the identity of the young lady.

    Now I will not sleep easy til I know more about this so would really appreciate to know its title. PM me if you would rather not share it in the open forum
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  22. Member DB83's Avatar
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    - snip -
    Last edited by DB83; 7th Aug 2019 at 15:05. Reason: internet playing up
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    Lol it's called Griechische Feigen. It's not a masterpiece of cinema, but yes, lots of nostalgia involved, which is probably why I'm trying so hard to fix it.
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  24. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    Now I thought I owned that on dvd but was on an old VHS. Methinks I bought that when it came out on UK VHS under the title 'The Fruit is Ripe'. The shop where I ordered it thought it had something to do with cookery

    https://www.amazon.de/s?k=Griechische+Feigen&i=dvd&__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%9...f=nb_sb_noss_2

    Is your cover on this page ?
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  25. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Looking at the various versions that Amazon.de are selling they are 4:3

    And one product reviow I read does mention the pillar-box/letter-box which is to be expected.

    Damn it. I have just gone and bought one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Hahaha I have seen at least one 4:3 DVD of this movie, but it was very poor quality compared to the incorrectly mastered German one, bleak colors and low detail. But that one wasn't letterbox+pillorbox, it was a real 4:3 fullscreen version of the movie, with additional detail at top and bottom. But the quality was VHS at best.

    I've also seen a HDTV rip someone made from German TV, but it looked very average too. I think once we fix this German DVD, it will be very good quality.
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  27. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    I'm getting some kind of (presumably) decode error corruption.
    I got it, too. It's in the source. I don't knw if it resulted from cutting the sample or if it's in the source DVD.

    When I add SwapFields before the TFM, it makes the residual interlacing worse, most noticeable with the moving car in the first scene. There's a little without it, more with it. I conclude the real source before DVD was a VHS tape (although I could be wrong) and the solution is either to add Vinverse afterwards, or to use QTGMC(FPSDivisor=2) instead of the TFM.

    Frame 34. The left pic is no swap fields (TFM(pp=0) alone), the right pic is with SwapFields before TFM(pp=0). Without SwapFields and with no PP=0, it doesn't get deinterlaced. With SwapFields added it gets deinterlaced.
    You're right, SwapFields() isn't called for here. QTGMC(FPSDivsor=2) is probably the best bet.
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  28. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I'll tell you what I will do.

    When the disk arrives I will rip it and upload approx. the same sequence you sent.

    I did see this on German tv. Back then transmission was still analog. It was one of the first that I was able to watch and transmission was in the hands of the weather - rain = sparklies. I do not think I still have that tape. Neither do I still own the original English tape.

    I have a box set from the same provider as this dvd of 'Frau Wirtin'. This is quite a mixed bag with some full ws and others non-anamorphic. So I am not holding my breath of the quality but as with this set I wanted the films so you get what is available and hope that something better will come along.
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  29. Now that we know the name of the film, it turns out to be 1.66:1, a common ratio for European film makers of the period. 1.66:1 films benefit from 16:9 encoding, but it's too late for that now. You could do it easily enough, but you won't get back that added detail 16:9 encoding allows for widescreen films. What you'll get is no more black bars on all four sides (when viewed on a widescreen television), but small black bars just on the sides
    Originally Posted by Knocks View Post
    The whole point of this is to fix the video for TV viewing.
    And I've explained how to do that once, pointed to that earlier post the second time, and here it is the third time:
    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    ...open the IFO in PGCEdit. Right-click on the movie and go Domain Stream Attributes. In the new Stream Attributes screen change it from 16:9 to 4:3. Save the change and test it out before burning back to disk.
    Everything that isn't need for playback on a modern TV should be chopped off.
    Maybe should be, but it doesn't always happen
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I'll tell you what I will do.

    When the disk arrives I will rip it and upload approx. the same sequence you sent.
    OK cool

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    And I've explained how to do that once, pointed to that earlier post the second time, and here it is the third time:
    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    ...open the IFO in PGCEdit. Right-click on the movie and go Domain Stream Attributes. In the new Stream Attributes screen change it from 16:9 to 4:3. Save the change and test it out before burning back to disk.
    Dude... I don't know why you're treating other people as if they are either stupid or blind. I read your suggestion the first time. We already know that the problem is a bad aspect ratio flag. And we know how to fix it. But your solution will result in 4 black bars, since 2 of the black bars are already hard-coded in the video, and 2 more will be generated by the player to compensate for the hard-coded ones. The real fix is to crop the hard-coded bars so that you're only left with pillar bars generated by the player.
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