Letterboxed DVD does not play in correct aspect ratio - Bad authoring?

[Knocks]

I don't understand why we need to stay within the constraints of the DVD specification and upscale the horizontal resolution to 768 if we are converting to HEVC and are no longer in the DVD realm. Why not just crop the letterbox and keep whatever pixels are there? That's what I did, and both results play correctly on TV. Pillar bars, no letterbox, no distortion. I'm just confused why VidCode even offers these as options.

[jagabo]

I don't understand why we need to stay within the constraints of the DVD specification and upscale the horizontal resolution to 768 if we are converting to HEVC and are no longer in the DVD realm. Why not just crop the letterbox and keep whatever pixels are there? That's what I did, and both results play correctly on TV. Pillar bars, no letterbox, no distortion. I'm just confused why VidCode even offers these as options.

Because many players do not respond to aspect ratio flags. They assume square pixel for everything. On such a player your 720x488 anamorphic encoding will display as ~1.48, whereas the 768x488 square pixel video will display correctly on all players (~1.58) -- as davexnet pointed out.

[Knocks]

OK, but we can't we just use VidCode's non-anamorphic setting, which I FINALLY understand is just a compatibility setting for older players? Both 720x458 and 768x488 produce the same aspect ratio (1.57), which means they should both use the same pixel dimensions, i.e. square.

Since I don't see myself EVER using another "hardware" player again (in fact, I don't think these players will survive once Blu-ray goes the way of the CD in the next few years), I think any of these resolutions is a safe choice, as long as the flags are set correctly and the video is not broken to begin with (like this DVD was originally).

[davexnet]

Yes you're correct. The reason for recommending 768 is that you are reducing the vertical resolution (detail) slighly,
by re-encding it from 488 to 458. Perhaps on this quality of source it's not such a big deal

[Knocks]

davexnet so why not keep it at 720x488 with non-square pixels then? Isn't 488 the exact number of horizontal lines you end up with after cropping the letterbox? If so, then this is the best of both worlds--you get to keep all the original horizontal and vertical lines plus the original pixel dimensions.

Also, you might be introducing SOME distortion when choosing 720x458 or 768x488 (or both). Since neither of them are exactly 1.57 (one is 1.572 and the other is 1.574), one of them has to be less true to source than the other, right?

[davexnet]

Jagabo expexplained
the concern a few posts back. However, if your TV properly handles the non square pixels
What you propose is good

[jagabo]

if your TV properly handles the non square pixels What you propose is good

Until his next TV or media player. I usually keep anamorphic sources anamorphic because each scaling creates artifacts. But I know what the tradeoffs are and am willing to live with them.

[Knocks]

Do you really expect open-source media players to stop supporting anamorphic movie rips? I haven't used a closed-source video player in over a decade, that includes game consoles and optical disc players. The only times I hear the sound of an optimal disc spinning is when I'm ripping it to a PC. Of all the software battles, video is one area where open source will ultimately win.

[jagabo]

Do you really expect open-source media players to stop supporting anamorphic movie rips?

No. But the media players built into many TVs, and many set-top players, don't support anamorphic videos.

[DB83]

Well the dvd arrived a day earlier than expected so I wasted no time in taking a quick peek (will watch the whole thing later this evening)

As expected, it is 4:3 with letter-boxing.

So I used my trusty dvd-decrypter to rip just the first chapter. The attached extract includes most of the original extract by the OP plus a little more at the start but for the sensitive I chose to trim the opening pre-credits sequence with the nudity. I have also included the sound.

Apparent from this new upload is the English titles. The main film title was 'Fruta Madura' - not sure what language that is.

And now for the 'gob-smacking' bit. So I rip the 4:3 dvd and the resultant vob is 16:9 complete with all the 'fat-heads' as previously seen. Interlacing artifacts are also present.

I can upload that if required but chose to re-author back to 4:3 retaining the letter-box. So what you see is not a pure rip.

[davexnet]

Well the dvd arrived a day earlier than expected so I wasted no time in taking a quick peek (will watch the whole thing later this evening)

As expected, it is 4:3 with letter-boxing.

So I used my trusty dvd-decrypter to rip just the first chapter. The attached extract includes most of the original extract by the OP plus a little more at the start but for the sensitive I chose to trim the opening pre-credits sequence with the nudity. I have also included the sound.

Apparent from this new upload is the English titles. The main film title was 'Fruta Madura' - not sure what language that is.

And now for the 'gob-smacking' bit. So I rip the 4:3 dvd and the resultant vob is 16:9 complete with all the 'fat-heads' as previously seen. Interlacing artifacts are also present.

I can upload that if required but chose to re-author back to 4:3 retaining the letter-box. So what you see is not a pure rip.

Assuming you didn't re-encode the video. it's a higher bitrate and looks a bit cleaner that the version uploaded by knocks.

[DB83]

Unfortunately, it is a re-encode. The original extract is 6,000 kbps as is the ripped vob. The ripped .ifo was reported at 4:3.

Is there a way to edit the header to 'fool' the playback to 4:3 ?

Just checked the mediainfo report of the original vob on the disk. Oddly that is also reported to be 16:9 so the rip is a true reflection of the disk. Yet plays back perfectly at 4:3. I always thought that the vobs should match the ifo AR wise. Yet I guess if the playback just takes the ifo........

[DB83]

Ok. I have found a program that can patch the rip back to 4:3 with no other changes >> DVDPatcher

If anyone wants to see that as well I can upload it.

Kinda answers the OP's original question.

Still curious if the OP's 'German DVD' is the same as this title-wise etc.

The dvd also has a trailer and that has the German title.

[DB83]

I have learnt something else what with all the discussion about anamorphic and the incorrectly flagged vob.

I was playing back the entire ripped chapter and merely altered the AR to 4:3. Seemed a natural thing to do. However while the frame now looked correct it had a side effect. Literally.

Both left and right edges were either cropped or the video was still wider than the frame. This was really evident since the titles did not display correctly. It was only when I patched the ripped chapter did the titles display correctly and, I guess, everything else is right.

[davexnet]

I have learnt something else what with all the discussion about anamorphic and the incorrectly flagged vob.

I was playing back the entire ripped chapter and merely altered the AR to 4:3. Seemed a natural thing to do. However while the frame now looked correct it had a side effect. Literally.

Both left and right edges were either cropped or the video was still wider than the frame. This was really evident since the titles did not display correctly. It was only when I patched the ripped chapter did the titles display correctly and, I guess, everything else is right.

Are you sure that's not your media player resizing it correctly?

[manono]

I always thought that the vobs should match the ifo AR wise. Yet I guess if the playback just takes the ifo........

Yes, they're supposed to match. But most players take the DAR from the IFO so you're good. Not an authoring error as in the thread title, but an encoding error. The video DAR is set by the MPEG-2 encoder. Authoring sets the DAR in the IFO and that info is usually obtained from the video but can easily be changed when authoring.

[DB83]

I have learnt something else what with all the discussion about anamorphic and the incorrectly flagged vob.

I was playing back the entire ripped chapter and merely altered the AR to 4:3. Seemed a natural thing to do. However while the frame now looked correct it had a side effect. Literally.

Both left and right edges were either cropped or the video was still wider than the frame. This was really evident since the titles did not display correctly. It was only when I patched the ripped chapter did the titles display correctly and, I guess, everything else is right.

Are you sure that's not your media player resizing it correctly?

Did this using vlc.

Will it help if I upload a brief section of the titles before and after ? (Assuming I can replicate the issue)

[davexnet]

I have learnt something else what with all the discussion about anamorphic and the incorrectly flagged vob.

I was playing back the entire ripped chapter and merely altered the AR to 4:3. Seemed a natural thing to do. However while the frame now looked correct it had a side effect. Literally.

Both left and right edges were either cropped or the video was still wider than the frame. This was really evident since the titles did not display correctly. It was only when I patched the ripped chapter did the titles display correctly and, I guess, everything else is right.

Are you sure that's not your media player resizing it correctly?

Did this using vlc.

Will it help if I upload a brief section of the titles before and after ? (Assuming I can replicate the issue)

Yes please do

[DB83]

Sorry. My bad.

Methinks I selected 'crop' from vlc instead of AR.

[davexnet]

Sorry. My bad.

Methinks I selected 'crop' from vlc instead of AR.

Ok thanks for the update. It's disappointing that the retail DVD is produced
the way it was. 6000 kbps - it doesn't even fill the DVD

[DB83]

Total size on disk is 4.14 gb. Main feature 3.97 gb (in its own title set)

I would often author a single layer disk at 90 mins at 6000 kbps

[Knocks]

Ok. I have found a program that can patch the rip back to 4:3 with no other changes >> DVDPatcher

That's exactly what I used to fix this DVD. You have to select the option to fix all frames in the video stream instead of just the header, otherwise the fix will only be recognized by some players and not others.

Still curious if the OP's 'German DVD' is the same as this title-wise etc.

The dvd also has a trailer and that has the German title.

Pretty sure we have the exact same thing. Try ripping the disc with MakeMKV. Does it bitch that the DVD was mastered with DVDFab and warn you about errors?

Here are some horribly mistranslated English subtitles if your German is not up to snuff. I synced and corrected them until I was blue in the face last night, but there's only so much fixing you can do with something that's so broken

[DB83]

I would hardly expect to receive that error. I did consider ripping with DvdFab Passkey but tried dvd-decrypter first.

My pressed disc ripped with no error. You will also see no pixelation in the airport scene.

But I was still surprised to see English titles on a German dvd. So clearly an export print was used. According to imdb, 'Fruta Madura' was the Spain/Portugal release title.

In my initial reply to this thread I stated that no reputable company should release a disk like this. Really poor form to encode full height 4:3 material as 16:9.

[Knocks]

I also have no pixelation in the airport scene, the pixelation was introduced by DGIndex. Can you try MakeMKV instead of DVD Decrypter and see what it tells you when you try to rip? I am just curious. You don't have to actually re-rip the whole disc, just begin the process and abort.

The subtitles were probably made by someone on the internet, that's why they suck so bad. The smart thing to do would have been just to transcribe the official English dub, because it was very good.

[DB83]

Ok. Installed (did not require any key ?) Here is the progress log

MakeMKV v1.14.4 win(x64-release) started
Automatic checking for updates is enabled, you may disable it in preferences if you don't want MakeMKV to contact web server.
Downloading latest SDF to C:\Users\David/.MakeMKV ...
Using direct disc access mode
Title #1 was added (1 cell(s), 0:02:55)
Title #2 was added (10 cell(s), 1:29:34)
Operation successfully completed
Saving 2 titles into directory F:/Video/GRIECHISCHE_FEIGEN_18
Failed to save title 1 to file F:/Video/GRIECHISCHE_FEIGEN_18/title_t01.mkv
1 titles saved, 1 failed

Since there are two titles on the disk. I created the first (the trailer) and then cancelled during the second hence the failure.

[Knocks]

Thanks for doing that, so no pop-up warning from MakeMKV?

[DB83]

Nothing !

Now got a movie to watch

[DB83]

Very enjoyable movie. They do not make 'em like that any more.

Now this is just me think aloud. It may not apply to all media players but......

Cropping off the black bars, re-encoding it, even to a better codec, must result in some quality loss. So....

Why not just zoom the image ? AR is retained.

[Knocks]

Matroska supports on-the-fly cropping on the container level without touching the stream. I think I'm going to try that, and if Kodi supports it, that'll be a good option.

[DB83]

Rather than foul this topic, I created another which explains how the grey-matter is working right now

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/394005-Share-your-memories-about-actually-watching...29#post2557254