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  1. Many years ago I shot a widescreen video with an old digital camera - I'm now putting it onto DVD to give out to all the family members, but not sure whether to use PAL or NTSC? I would appreciate any advice please…

    Reasons to use NTSC
    • The only big reason to use NTSC is that the video is 30fps, which presumably means I have to use NTSC? I don't want to blend/drop frames as I consider that too destructive.

    Reasons to use PAL
    • I live in a PAL country (UK) and not sure if most of my family will have players that can play NTSC discs?
    • The video is quite high definition and looks far better at PAL resolution than NTSC.
    • I've seen NTSC TV shows and they have horrible washed-out color, which puts me off NTSC. Is there any way to use NTSC resolution without the NTSC color system?
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  2. Almost every DVD player and TV in PAL countries can display NTSC DVDs. This is because region 2 includes both PAL and NTSC countries.
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  3. NTSC DVDs don't output 30fps but 29.97fps. That slight difference is important. Maybe you used 30fps as a shortcut for 29.97fps as many do.

    If interlaced it can be converted to PAL without much problem. If progressive it can be converted to PAL DVD with slightly more problems. Please provide a MediaInfo text file of the particulars of your video.

    Almost all PAL DVD players can play NTSC DVDs. All computers and hardware media players can play both with no problem.

    You might try AvsToDVD to make DVDs both ways to see which you prefer.
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  4. Member DB83's Avatar
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    There's an old gag that says NTSC = Never Twice Same Color Yet I guess that is more relevant to the old analog days.

    Surely all UK dvd players can handle NTSC disks. It is not as if you will put any region coding on it.

    A program like avstodvd can create a PAL/25fps dvd from a NTSC/30fps source so you could always use that to see how it looks.

    Beaten to the mark as I authored the reply
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  5. Originally Posted by Gameshow Host View Post
    [*]I've seen NTSC TV shows and they have horrible washed-out color, which puts me off NTSC.
    That has nothing to do with whether the disc is NTSC or PAL. They both encode colors with the same limited range rec.601 matrix.
    Last edited by jagabo; 23rd Jul 2019 at 21:46.
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  6. NTSC could look very strange because it has same chroma for 4 pixel next to each other. Those 4 pixel share the same U and V. Only Y is unique for each pixel. So you record red tulips or some point light source and it looks much more "distorted" as oppose it would have recorded with PAL device, because PAL makes that "smear" somehow more uniform, not that wide, because of 420. Not sure why they came up with 411 in the first place. It might be somewhere over net , why I guess. So "washed out" is another problem, not NTSC vs. PAL related. I remember looking at NTSC DV footage in NLE some time ago editing my "superduper" NTSC DV camcorder footage, noticing footage's with flower details, like those red tulips and similar and thinking a had a faulty camcorder back then . That was back 20 years ago. NTSC and DV codec at work.

    Never the same color came because NTSC itself was changing during decades. Not like you record something with NTSC DV camcorder and then record exactly the same and it would look differently.
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  7. The 4:1:1 issues is limited to NTSC DV. It does not lead to washed out colors, only loss of small color details. All DVD, PAL and NTSC, is YUV 4:2:0. The OP hasn't said his source is NTSC DV. Even if it is the damage to the chroma has already been done. PAL or NTSC DVD isn't going to make much difference in the colors. "Never twice the same color" refers to analog video, not digital video.
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  8. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    FYI, to "author" means the assets are already done, already encoded.
    Wrong word choice.

    The decision is to leave native (best option) or to convert formats (which easily has quality issue if done wrong). All-in-ones do a lousy conversion job.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    That old ntsc business really was an artifact of early analog recording (in)capability, and of broadcasting.

    Iiwy, I would encode to ntsc @ 29.97 (slowing it down slightly if necessary).

    Scott
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  10. First of all, thanks for all the replies and great advice!

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Almost every DVD player and TV in PAL countries can display NTSC DVDs. This is because region 2 includes both PAL and NTSC countries.
    That's great news - one issue less to worry about!

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    [Color] has nothing to do with whether the disc is NTSC or PAL. They both encode colors with the same limited range rec.601 matrix.
    Again, that's great news. Another less issue to worry about!

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    NTSC DVDs don't output 30fps but 29.97fps. That slight difference is important. Maybe you used 30fps as a shortcut for 29.97fps as many do.
    It really is 30fps (as confirmed by Windows, PotPlayer, and my video editing software. VLC reports "30.000300 FPS"). I had actually been thinking that the NTSC format would support both 30fps and 29.97fps, since they're both extremely common. I guess not?

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Iiwy, I would encode to ntsc @ 29.97 (slowing it down slightly if necessary).
    Yes, I think I will slow it down. It's only 0.1% speed reduction, which is barely noticeable - nothing like the ridiculous 4% PAL speedup we get with our movies here!

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    If interlaced it can be converted to PAL without much problem. If progressive it can be converted to PAL DVD with slightly more problems. Please provide a MediaInfo text file of the particulars of your video.
    It's progressive, and the original video was MJPG, YUV 4:2:2.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    The decision is to leave native (best option) or to convert formats (which easily has quality issue if done wrong).
    Well not quite because there is no "native" resolution. The video was originally low resolution but I've massively enhanced the picture, and it's now HD in terms of picture definition. It actually seems a shame to reduce it down to SD, but I want all my family to be able to see it, and I doubt many of them have blu-ray players.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    FYI, to "author" means the assets are already done, already encoded.
    Wrong word choice.
    Ah, thanks for that. Does that mean I've posted in the wrong forum? And what word should I have used?
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  11. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Me thinks ls is nit-picking

    Not all dvd creation programs require previously prepared assets. Ideally they should.
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  12. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Me thinks ls is nit-picking

    Not all dvd creation programs require previously prepared assets. Ideally they should.
    It's not a major point but I don't believe it's nit-picking. All-in-one programs such as AvsToDVD perform other functions in addition to authoring. A pure authoring program is one such as Muxman. You provide the DVD-compliant assets (video, audio, chapter points, subs) and it creates a DVD from them. Audio and video encoding, subtitle creation, menu creation, choosing where to place chapters have nothing to do with authoring.

    Maybe a better phrase for what Gameshow Host wants to do is 'DVD creation'. As for his title, maybe "Should I make an NTSC or PAL DVD?"
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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Whist I am happy to accept such an explanation, let's look at this from the usage of the word long before dvds were around.

    An author assembles his characters. He places words on to pages and decides how these pages should be split in to chapters.

    So whilst words can be derived they should acknowledge their origination.
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  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    let's look at this from the usage of the word long before dvds were around.
    That doesn't matter.
    "author" is video jargon with a very exacting definition.
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  15. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well I just did a quick 'Google' and found this from one 'pro' source

    https://www.discmakers.com/authoring/what-is-authoring/

    "DVD authoring is the process of taking video material and combining it with images, artwork, user menus, chapter points, text, music, overdubs, commentary, animation, autoplay, repeat settings, and more, via DVD authoring software to create content capable of being viewed as a DVD video or on a streaming device."

    Now one may wish to delete everything past the word 'material' but if pros can not agree what chance do us lesser mortals have ?
    Last edited by DB83; 25th Jul 2019 at 19:02.
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  16. Yeah, but based on your quotation, he already has DVD compliant video, "images, artwork, user menus, chapter points, text, music, overdubs, commentary, animation, autoplay, repeat settings, and more..." to put together into a DVD. None were created by the authoring software. For example, he is not claiming to take a text file and include it in the DVD. At the very least he has to be provided with a DVD-compliant BMP of the text. Maybe that company provides those services as well, but that's different and I'd bet he'd charge a lot more if you gave him an MP4 to turn into a DVD.

    And you left out what is, perhaps, the main point he is (and we are) making:

    DVD authoring is the final step in video post-production...
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  17. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Sorry my friend but I did not see the word 'compliant' in that quote.

    I did not seek to deliberately miss out any text. Just that the early part of that page somewhat mirrored the analogy I was making with the origin of the word 'author'

    Now if some video boffin comes along and decided that dvd authoring should exclude EVERYTHING other than the introduction of (compliant) video assets.........

    But just to put this to bed can anyone actually direct me to this directive ?
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  18. It's okay. No point in arguing over unimportant things.
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