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  1. Member
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    Hi.

    I'm recording my Spectrum TV with my Elgato HD60s through HDMI with Amarec.

    I found that whenever there's a scene cut or whatever its called it seems to have some sort of trailing or something.
    Image
    [Attachment 49557 - Click to enlarge]


    It's more obvious when there's a 24fps source playing.
    Image
    [Attachment 49558 - Click to enlarge]


    I've noticed in one file that it feels like its doing motion interpolation (even though its not the case). (example should be attached, albeit trimmed with vlc since the original file is like 8gb. if its not let me know).

    I have recorded some test .ts files on a Windows XP machine with a firewire card and I don't see any of those problems. Think its a capture card problem?
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  2. That clip is totally messed up. First, the bitrate is way too low for the material (that may be because of your TV provider since the file itself has a high video bitrate). Second, interlaced video was encoded progressive. Both of those problems may be responsible for the problem in the first image. The progressive encoding is responsible for the problem in the second image (color ghosting).
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  3. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    That clip is totally messed up. First, the bitrate is way too low for the material. Second, interlaced video was encoded progressive. Both of those problems may be responsible for the problem in the first image. The progressive encoding is responsible for the problem in the second image.
    thats...interesting. i have x264vfw set to --tff so it shouldn't have to encode in progressive.
    Image
    [Attachment 49560 - Click to enlarge]


    The bitrate on the original video file is pretty high, looks like VLC screwed it up when i was trimming it then. :P

    Actually I do admit Spectrum doesn't do a good job on some channels when there's high motion imo, hence all the blockiness.
    Image
    [Attachment 49561 - Click to enlarge]


    Any way to fix that encoding problem?
    Last edited by ENunn; 16th Jul 2019 at 21:15.
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  4. The blockiness of the file you uploaded is what I would expect from a 1080i30 video encoded at less than 5000 kbps. I recommend you make a new recording and upload the captured video directly so we can see exactly what's going on. Record a live sporting event with lots of motion and highly saturated colors (like the video you uploaded). Maybe 10 seconds to keep the size down.
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    test file is attached. tried getting a native 1080i sports channel with native 1080i games but most of them were showing 720p games from fox/espn. probably doesn't matter tbh

    edit: recorded it with the wrong color space. i replaced the old file with a new one
    Image Attached Files
    Last edited by ENunn; 16th Jul 2019 at 21:54.
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  6. The situation is pretty much the same. The video contains interlaced frames but is encoded progressive. This has caused the colors of the two fields to blend together. And there are severe macroblock artifacts even though the bitrate is very high (~160 Mb/s). I'd guess the blockiness comes from your TV provider so you can't do anything about it. But the blended chroma is almost certainly because the video is encoded wrong.
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  7. Member
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    i could care less about the blocking tbh. im just trying to figure out whats causing it to encode in progressive.

    i use the exact same settings when capturing vhs with my gv-usb2 in virtualdub and its actually encoded interlaced.

    1080i amarec file:
    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : D:\amarec\amarec(20190716-2229).avi
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 103 MiB
    Duration                                 : 5 s 5 ms
    Overall bit rate                         : 172 Mb/s
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Codec ID                                 : H264
    Duration                                 : 5 s 5 ms
    Bit rate                                 : 164 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
    Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.639
    Stream size                              : 97.8 MiB (95%)
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : PCM
    Format settings                          : Little / Signed
    Codec ID                                 : 1
    Duration                                 : 5 s 5 ms
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Bit depth                                : 16 bits
    Stream size                              : 938 KiB (1%)
    Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
    GV-usb2 + virtualdub:
    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : D:\virtualdub\billyanimvhstest1.avi
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 227 MiB
    Duration                                 : 40 s 988 ms
    Overall bit rate                         : 46.4 Mb/s
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High 4:4:4 Predictive@L3
    Format settings                          : 1 Ref Frames
    Format settings, CABAC                   : No
    Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
    Codec ID                                 : H264
    Duration                                 : 40 s 941 ms
    Bit rate                                 : 44.9 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 720 pixels
    Height                                   : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 3:2
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Standard                                 : NTSC
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : MBAFF
    Scan type, store method                  : Interleaved fields
    Scan order                               : Top Field First
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 4.335
    Stream size                              : 219 MiB (97%)
    Writing library                          : x264 core 152 r2851bm ba24899
    Encoding settings                        : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=0:0:0 / analyse=0:0 / me=dia / subme=0 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=7 / lookahead_threads=7 / sliced_threads=1 / slices=7 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=tff / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc=cqp / mbtree=0 / qp=0
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : PCM
    Format settings                          : Little / Signed
    Codec ID                                 : 1
    Duration                                 : 40 s 988 ms
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Bit depth                                : 16 bits
    Stream size                              : 7.51 MiB (3%)
    Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
    Interleave, duration                     : 50  ms (1.50 video frames)
    Interleave, preload duration             : 99  ms
    i would try to capture my elgato in virtualdub but it doesn't work for me. it just shows a blank screen and when i try to record it gives me an "unable to start video capture". i remember it working on another pc a couple years ago so i don't know whats up.

    edit: a few minutes after i posted that i got it to work in virtualdub and what do you know, its encoding in interlaced.
    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : D:\virtualdub\elgatovirtualdubtest.avi
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 104 MiB
    Duration                                 : 5 s 760 ms
    Overall bit rate                         : 152 Mb/s
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High 4:4:4 Predictive@L4
    Format settings                          : 1 Ref Frames
    Format settings, CABAC                   : No
    Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
    Codec ID                                 : H264
    Duration                                 : 5 s 506 ms
    Bit rate                                 : 157 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
    Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : MBAFF
    Scan type, store method                  : Interleaved fields
    Scan order                               : Top Field First
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.524
    Stream size                              : 103 MiB (99%)
    Writing library                          : x264 core 152 r2851bm ba24899
    Encoding settings                        : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=0:0:0 / analyse=0:0 / me=dia / subme=0 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=12 / sliced_threads=1 / slices=12 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=tff / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc=cqp / mbtree=0 / qp=0
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : PCM
    Format settings                          : Little / Signed
    Codec ID                                 : 1
    Duration                                 : 5 s 760 ms
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Bit depth                                : 16 bits
    Stream size                              : 1.05 MiB (1%)
    Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
    Interleave, duration                     : 21  ms (0.62 video frame)
    Interleave, preload duration             : 127  ms
    maybe amarec is causing the problem or something? hmmm.

    also it looks like there's still color ghosting dispite it being encoded in interlaced
    Image
    [Attachment 49564 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 49565 - Click to enlarge]
    Last edited by ENunn; 16th Jul 2019 at 23:57.
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  8. The Amerec recording isn't using x264 -- at least the usual metadata that x264 saves with the video isn't there.
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  9. Member
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    weird. it might be a capture card issue since i have the same issue in virtualdub albeit it's encoded in mbaff. same ghosting with the added bonus of audio sync issues (see the edited post).
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  10. I remember I had similar problems with Amarec recordings (UTvideo codec used) if I recorded in 4:2:0. What's weird I didn't have that problem in VirtualDub. When I started to use 4:2:2 in Amarec, recordings were without blended chroma.
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  11. Be careful, VirtualDub has a similar chroma blending problem with interlaced YV12 (YUV 4:2:0). So if you're using it to produce those images they may not be indicative of what's in the video. I use AviSynth to process the video it before feeding it to VirtualDub so I know it's handled properly.

    And yes, recording in YUY2 (and not letting VirtualDub or the codec convert toYV12) can work around these problems.
    Last edited by jagabo; 17th Jul 2019 at 09:30.
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  12. Yes, I learned that the hard way The proper capture should be in YUY2. After that, you process captured file in AviSynth.
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  13. Member
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    Originally Posted by badyu17 View Post
    The proper capture should be in YUY2. After that, you process captured file in AviSynth.
    my elgato's been set to YUY2 all this time :/
    Image
    [Attachment 49573 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 49574 - Click to enlarge]


    edit: i might have fixed the problem. setting the circled option to keep input colorspace seems to fix the issue and i don't notice any ghosting. test file is attached
    Image
    [Attachment 49575 - Click to enlarge]


    I think Spectrum is doing this garbage though but I'm not stressing too much over it.
    Image
    [Attachment 49576 - Click to enlarge]
    Image Attached Files
    Last edited by ENunn; 17th Jul 2019 at 12:01.
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  14. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ENunn View Post
    I think Spectrum is doing this garbage though but I'm not stressing too much over it.
    If they are you should be able to see it when viewed on a HDTV.

    Originally Posted by ENunn View Post
    edit: i might have fixed the problem. setting the circled option to keep input colorspace seems to fix the issue and i don't notice any ghosting. test file is attached
    Well that's good news.
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  15. Member
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    yeah it has been fixed but on some recordings it looks like it didn't do anything even when other recordings show that it has been fixed (see attached files)

    otherwise it looks like everything's fine. i would check and see if the artifacts show up on a tv but its really really really really hard to tell.
    Image Attached Files
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  16. " amarec(20190717-1624) - fixed.avi" doesn't have the chroma blending problem. The "not fixed" video has chroma blending.
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  17. Member
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    its really weird since they both were recorded with the same exact settings. at least i got the issue mostly resolved. thanks for your help fellas!
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  18. Member
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    Alright, I have an update. No matter what I do I can apparently only capture YUV 4.2.0 when I use x264fvw.

    Sometimes I have color blending, sometimes I don't. It just decides what it wants to do. Sadly I haven't been able to find out how to reocrd in YUV2. Looks like I need a new capture card but it makes no sense. My capture card should support YUY2. Drives me insane. Looks like using Utvideo's ULH2 codec seems to fix the 4:2:2 problem, but I'd really like to have a tff flag in it so my recordings are smoother.
    Last edited by ENunn; 21st Jul 2019 at 20:43.
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  19. Originally Posted by ENunn View Post
    Alright, I have an update. No matter what I do I can apparently only capture YUV 4.2.0 when I use x264fvw.
    Did you use x264vfw's "Keep/Accept only YUV 4:2:2" option?

    Originally Posted by ENunn View Post
    Looks like using Utvideo's ULH2 codec seems to fix the 4:2:2 problem, but I'd really like to have a tff flag in it so my recordings are smoother.
    You can always force the field order in an editor/player.
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  20. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Did you use x264vfw's "Keep/Accept only YUV 4:2:2" option?
    Yep. Still records in 4:2:0.

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    You can always force the field order in an editor/player.
    How do you do it in VLC? Whenever I force deinterlacing it's really jumpy.
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  21. Originally Posted by ENunn View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Did you use x264vfw's "Keep/Accept only YUV 4:2:2" option?
    Yep. Still records in 4:2:0.
    I don't have anything to capture from. But at the main interface I can set x264vfw to accept/keep YUY 4:2:2 and encode TFF -- the resulting AVI files shows up as 4:2:2 interlaced:

    Code:
    Standard                                 : NTSC
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : MBAFF
    Scan type, store method                  : Interleaved fields
    Scan order                               : Top Field First
    Originally Posted by ENunn View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    You can always force the field order in an editor/player.
    How do you do it in VLC? Whenever I force deinterlacing it's really jumpy.
    VLC in particular doesn't have a field order override (as far as I know).
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I don't have anything to capture from. But at the main interface I can set x264vfw to accept/keep YUY 4:2:2 and encode TFF -- the resulting AVI files shows up as 4:2:2 interlaced:
    I tried that and it still records in 4:2:0.

    Image
    [Attachment 49608 - Click to enlarge]


    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    VLC in particular doesn't have a field order override (as far as I know).
    Huh, interesting.
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  23. Member
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    I have an update. It IS apparently recording in 4:2:2 after all. Mediainfo was displaying the wrong color space apparently.

    I don't notice any color ghosting either, so I guess that's a good sign :P
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Image Attached Files
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  24. It's a little hard to tell if there's any color ghosting because everything is the same color and the chroma is very blocky. But I think it's ok. There is some temporal blending in the chroma but that may be because of the over-compression (not by you, but earlier). Definitely better than before.
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