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  1. Member
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    I'm looking to get some advice on a Larger style pro Camcorder, suitable for starting a small Video business. I was originally considering a Mirrorless Camera, but with a narrow budget, a Camcorder may be a better choice to begin with. I have read you don't need to buy additional Lens's and also the audio recording & auto focus is a bit better on a camcorder as well! My one concern however, is the lower MP levels camcorders have, while the mirrorless cams have 24 or more MP's How much this affects Video quality I don't know! Anyway I would like to get some feedback on this issue, ..as I'm sure there is a lot I don't know! Thanks John
    Last edited by FL-Artist; 1st Jul 2019 at 12:31.
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  2. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    STOP.

    BACK UP.

    Start by defining your startup budget, and your target market(s) & workflow(s).

    By video business, which KIND of business are you referring to? (Select one or more of the below)

    Electronic journalism/newsgathering
    Wedding/Event photog/videography
    Video/performance art
    Commercial/industrial/educational videography
    Sports/action videography
    Electronic cinematography (movies, etc)
    Individual POV internet influencing/miscellaneous
    Porn

    Next, I have to ask this because you've already revealed something that you might be missing but which I think is important: how much do you know about photography/video/cinematography? If you don't understand the fundamentals & details of the mechanics of those, it might not be impossible to do this for a living, but you will be at a severe disadvantage, especially compared to your supposed competitors.

    More to follow, esp. if you are more forthcoming with details in response....


    Scott
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    First of all, I am not planning on doing it for a living! I'm interested in shooting short Live Music Videos and Special events. what I am really concerned with is putting out a professional looking product! My experience in still photography is a 50 year career starting out in the Graflex view camera era, and on up into digital. My Video experience is not very extensive, but I am learning fairly quickly. As far as the budget, I am simply interested in buying a Camera in the starting out range of the pro rigs, something like the JVC GY-HM600 ..maybe with better sensors! That's why I'm asking very basic questions! ..It's all up in the air right now! Thanks
    Last edited by FL-Artist; 1st Jul 2019 at 20:50.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Assuming camcorder (for long takes), non-interchangeable lens (for portability?), std compact pro form factor (for events), I'd pick the Panny AG-AC160A over the JVC, and then stick an ATOMOS recorder on the output if you needed a less compressed master file.

    You'll have to decide yourself whether you'd need more than a micro-4/3rds sensor cam, though, based on how you want things to look (sensitivity vs. DoF).

    MP doesn't really mean the same thing in video, as you stick with one of the standards: 720p (1MP), 1080p (2MP) or 4k (8MP). Even when mirrorless, DSLR, etc versions do video, they drop from whatever they utilize (and advertise) in still mode down to one of those.

    Hth,

    Scott
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    Thanks for the Help Scott! ..I didn't know about the Camcorder MP drop down vs. the Still Cameras MP's. If you had to recommend something a little below that Panasonic AG-AC160A what might it be? ..and finally, do you think 1080p HD is going to be around awhile professionally, ...of is 4K taking over and becoming the professional standard?
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Not sure what the current state is for that slightly lower level, as usually when I NEED to find something in that range, I'm looking at DSLRs & mirrorless.

    1080p HD will always be a good base (I seriously would NOT go lower anymore), but for future-proofing, I strongly suggest 4k (or better) as an acquisition format, because you have leeway to manipulate in post and STILL end up with at least a clean 1080p file.

    It isn't completely necessary for 4k as a final distribution format.

    Scott
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    Thanks for all your knowledgeable Advice Scott!
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  8. Here´s a good starting point, some models below 2,000 dollars are even 4K
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Professional-Camcorders/Ns/p_PRICE_2%7C0/sortType/d...1/N/3948183962
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    This Looks Very interesting sophisticles, something like this The Blackmagic Pocket 4K camera would need to be used with a Gimbal Stabilizer I imagine, as it has no in body stabilization, and probably would need to use 3rd party stabilized lenses.
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  10. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Even those lower end BMJ cams end up being more expensive than his budget, when you factor in lenses, etc.
    Plus, he wanted NON-interchangeable lens.
    Plus, being e-cinema they look good, but just like DSLRs, they do not have the protection from overheating during extended takes, while those camcorders do.

    Scott
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    Any opinions on one of these three 4K rigs! ...JVC GY-HM180 Ultra HD 4K , ...JVC GY-HM170UA 4KCAM, ...Canon XC10 4K,
    Last edited by FL-Artist; 8th Jul 2019 at 14:19.
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  12. Originally Posted by FL-Artist View Post
    Any opinions on one of these three 4K rigs! ...JVC GY-HM180 Ultra HD 4K , ...JVC GY-HM170UA 4KCAM, ...Canon XC10 4K,
    The JVC uses a 1/2.3"' sensor, the Canon uses a 1/2.8" sensor.
    Difference here is whn recording, the jvc uses a 9mp crop of the 12mp sensor because thr 1/2.3" sensor isn't a 16:9 format.
    The Canon uses a 3mp 16:9 sensor, so no cropping.
    The reason for this is Canon is increasing the size of each pixel to pull in more light for a better low light pixel.
    The trade-off is it can take only a 3mp photo, vs 9mp on the jvc.

    If you're filming in lower light conditions indoors, the canon will be one to consider and test first.

    Vs these tiny p&s sized sensors, even a 1" sony camcorder may do better in low light. E.g. Sony HXR-NX100

    Again, due to differing generations of sensor technology, a newer 1/2.3" sensor could do better than an ancient 1" sensor - definitely test if possible, else YouTube or vimeo to find samples.

    Beyond that, Panasonic gh4/gh5 dslrs have a bigger sensor and unlimited record time like camcorders (most cameras stop at 30 minutes).

    ...

    The jvc has a wide of about 29mm, the canon 26mm, so you can capture a wider shot up close. You can't change the lens later.

    ...

    Go through each, find the biggest battery accessory, and figure out what the longest record time is.
    That's the longest you'll be able to reliably record non-stop.
    Worse situation is having to replace the battery many times during a shoot, potentially missing a great moment.

    ...
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  13. Chiming in late ...

    My first camcorder was a cheap little Canon which lacked an eyepiece-style viewfinder and I HATED it! All it had was a screen, which was nigh useless in daylight. You couldn't see your shot! So I upgraded to a better Canon model with an eyepiece-style viewfinder and was much happier.

    I didn't see an eyepiece-style viewfinder on those Black Magic cameras, just a screen.
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  14. Will you be using the audio inputs on the camera for capturing sound, and/or somebody else recording audio on another format? I think pretty much every camcorder in that price range has PCM stereo audio, dual microphone inputs (XLR? That would be nice). If you're doing music videos I'm assuming you won't really use the "live" sound tracks for anything but syncing external soundtracks during editing, but if you're shooting some critical live one-time-only stuff and your video looks great but your only audio track is iffy, that can really, really suck. Ask me how I know.
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