HDR10 not working?

7th May 2019 21:43 #1

Member

Hi there,

I got the video source from here: https://4kmedia.org/sony-mont-blanc-hdr-uhd-4k-demo/

On my Mac,
The video plays fine on VLC with fruitful colours, but the colour is pale on Quicktime player or Safari.

However LG's one doesn't have the same issue:
https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/

In which I checked the Sony's mediainfo:

Code:

General
Complete name                            : Sony Mont Blanc HDR UHD 4K Demo.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Commercial name                          : HDR10
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/iso4)
File size                                : 755 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 28 s
Overall bit rate                         : 72.0 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-01-27 06:42:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-01-27 06:42:55

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Commercial name                          : HDR10
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 28 s
Bit rate                                 : 71.8 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.173
Stream size                              : 753 MiB (100%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-01-27 06:42:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-01-27 06:42:55
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : R: x=1.000000 y=1.000000, G: x=1.000000 y=1.000000, B: x=1.000000 y=1.000000, White point: x=1.000000 y=1.000000
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.1000 cd/m2, max: 0 cd/m2
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 1 min 28 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.01 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-01-27 06:42:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-01-27 06:42:55

I noticed that the master display colour primaries are incorrect, so I wonder if it could be fixed.
I have tried to transcode with correct values, e.g.

Code:

Mastering display color primaries        : R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312500 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0040 cd/m2, max: 1100 cd/m2

but unfortunately it doesn't give a positive result.

So does anyone know what kind of parameters do we need to pass to activate the HDR functionality for Safari/Quicktime Player?

Thank you in advance!

Quote

8th May 2019 10:05 #2

usually_quiet

Member

I don't have a Mac, Quicktime or Safari. I do use VLC on my Windows machine with a monitor that can switch between HDMI 1.4/SDR mode and HDMI 2.0/HDR10 mode.

The Sony: Mont Blanc HDR demo uses HDR10 for its HDR metadata. I downloaded this demo some time ago, and the colors are rendered nicely using VLC, but any of the other video players that I have which don't support HDR10 render a washed-out picture.

The newest version of VLC can use tone-mapping to simulate HDR on an SDR-only monitor. This version of VLC is also able to display natural-looking colors using the HDMI 2.0/HDR10 connection on my monitor, although they are not quite as vivid.

According to its description at the website, the LG: Cymatic Jazz HDR/HLG demo uses Hybrid Log Gamma for its HDR metadata** instead of HDR10. I can't download it for testing because the website won't allow it due to high activity for the file.

Are you certain that Quicktime and Safari support HDR10? Perhaps they only support HLG HDR.

[Edit] ** Correction: HLG does not use metadata

Last edited by usually_quiet; 8th May 2019 at 12:22.

Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329

Quote

8th May 2019 15:03 #3

usually_quiet

Member

I was finally able to download the LG: Cymatic Jazz HDR/HLG demo. When playing it VLC rendered the video in SDR (using tone mapping to approximate BT 2020) for both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4.

HDR support is simply not as good for software players, computers and monitors at this point as it is for TVs. My monitor supports HDR10 (but no other type of HDR) and the same is true for my Intel processor's iGPU.

Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329

Quote

9th May 2019 01:18 #4

Mikami

Member

Originally Posted by usually_quiet

I was finally able to download the LG: Cymatic Jazz HDR/HLG demo. When playing it VLC rendered the video in SDR (using tone mapping to approximate BT 2020) for both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4.

HDR support is simply not as good for software players, computers and monitors at this point as it is for TVs. My monitor supports HDR10 (but no other type of HDR) and the same is true for my Intel processor's iGPU.

Oh! Thank you very much for your comment!
You have solved the puzzles!
So to conclude,
- LG source is HLG HDR, which is why it can be rendered by Quicktime
- VLC does tone mapping under the hood when HDR output is not supported

I have verified by transcoding the LG's video with BT 709 colour space without tone-mapping,
and it does show the same colour as it was in BT 2020.

Great!
Now leave with one question, as to the mediainfo LG is showing:

Code:

mediainfo LG_Cymatic_Jazz_HDR10_4K_Demo.mp4 
General
Complete name                            : LG_Cymatic_Jazz_HDR10_4K_Demo.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Commercial name                          : HDR10
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 1.11 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 60.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Writing application                      : Lavf57.72.101

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Commercial name                          : HDR10
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hev1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Bit rate                                 : 60.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.121
Stream size                              : 1.11 GiB (100%)
Writing library                          : ATEME Titan KFE 3.7.3 (4.7.3.1003)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0040 cd/m2, max: 1100 cd/m2
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 126 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.38 MiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26

The commercial name saying HDR10 and transfer saying PQ, but it is not HDR10 nor PQ isn't it?
as far as I know,
PQ & HLG are 2 different transfer function,
and HDR10 specifies the use of SMPTE ST 2084 EOTF, which is for PQ instead of HLG.

Is the metadata HDR10 & PQ not trust worthy?
Or how should I identify the media is HLG?

Thank you so much!!

Quote

9th May 2019 09:26 #5

usually_quiet

Member

Originally Posted by Mikami

Originally Posted by usually_quiet

I was finally able to download the LG: Cymatic Jazz HDR/HLG demo. When playing it VLC rendered the video in SDR (using tone mapping to approximate BT 2020) for both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4.

HDR support is simply not as good for software players, computers and monitors at this point as it is for TVs. My monitor supports HDR10 (but no other type of HDR) and the same is true for my Intel processor's iGPU.

Oh! Thank you very much for your comment!
You have solved the puzzles!
So to conclude,
- LG source is HLG HDR, which is why it can be rendered by Quicktime
- VLC does tone mapping under the hood when HDR output is not supported

I have verified by transcoding the LG's video with BT 709 colour space without tone-mapping,
and it does show the same colour as it was in BT 2020.

Great!
Now leave with one question, as to the mediainfo LG is showing:

Code:

mediainfo LG_Cymatic_Jazz_HDR10_4K_Demo.mp4 
General
Complete name                            : LG_Cymatic_Jazz_HDR10_4K_Demo.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Commercial name                          : HDR10
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 1.11 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 60.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Writing application                      : Lavf57.72.101

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Commercial name                          : HDR10
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hev1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Bit rate                                 : 60.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.121
Stream size                              : 1.11 GiB (100%)
Writing library                          : ATEME Titan KFE 3.7.3 (4.7.3.1003)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0040 cd/m2, max: 1100 cd/m2
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 126 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.38 MiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26

The commercial name saying HDR10 and transfer saying PQ, but it is not HDR10 nor PQ isn't it?
as far as I know,
PQ & HLG are 2 different transfer function,
and HDR10 specifies the use of SMPTE ST 2084 EOTF, which is for PQ instead of HLG.

Is the metadata HDR10 & PQ not trust worthy?
Or how should I identify the media is HLG?

Thank you so much!!

Maybe MediaInfo's author made a mistake or is still learning out how to interpret the HDR information in the video headers? Maybe the header is incorrect?

I have MediaInfo MediaInfo 19.04, the latest version. Below is the MediaInfo report for the file that I downloaded yesterday from https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/. I used the "Download" button on the webpage to obtain this file. I'm not sure why your download is an mp4 file using a Mac and mine is a ts using a Windows PC, but as you can see, the report does say "Transfer characteristics: HLG / BT.2020 (10-bit)"

Code:

General
ID                                       : 1049 (0x419)
Complete name                            : C:\Users\usually_quiet\Videos\LG Cymatic Jazz 4K Demo\LG Cymatic Jazz 4K Demo.ts
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 738 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 min 57 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 20.8 Mb/s

Video
ID                                       : 33 (0x21)
Menu ID                                  : 301 (0x12D)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : 36
Duration                                 : 17 h 6 min
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Writing library                          : ATEME Titan File 3.7.7 (4.7.7.1)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : HLG / BT.2020 (10-bit)
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
SEI_rbsp_stop_one_bit                    : Missing

Audio
ID                                       : 36 (0x24)
Menu ID                                  : 301 (0x12D)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 4 min 57 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -36 ms

Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th May 2019 at 09:34.

Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329

Quote

9th May 2019 20:58 #6

Mikami

Member

Shocked.

So there were 2 pages... (woosh)
https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/
https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr10-uhd-4k-demo/

Both of them state they are MP4 files but yours is in TS,
and HDR10's one claims itself HDR10 but it isn't too (mind-blown)

But anyway, yours should be the correct one, glad that you have it.
So turn out the HDR10's one only got the HDR10 label (metadata) but the content itself were in SDR/HLG?

Thank you very much for your time!
Interesting to find out how decoder activates the HDR...

Quote

10th May 2019 02:21 #7

usually_quiet

Member

Originally Posted by Mikami

Shocked.

So there were 2 pages... (woosh)
https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/
https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr10-uhd-4k-demo/

Both of them state they are MP4 files but yours is in TS,
and HDR10's one claims itself HDR10 but it isn't too (mind-blown)

But anyway, yours should be the correct one, glad that you have it.
So turn out the HDR10's one only got the HDR10 label (metadata) but the content itself were in SDR/HLG?

Thank you very much for your time!
Interesting to find out how decoder activates the HDR...

That certainly explains why the files we downloaded were so different.

You linked to https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/ in your first post in this thread, so that's where I went to download. I had no idea that the other page, https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr10-uhd-4k-demo/, existed until now.

The fake HDR10 file certainly plays like it uses HLG for HDR and not like it uses HDR10 for HDR, but the information that MediaInfo and VLC report about the fake HDR10 file mention PQ. Could it actually be PQ HDR? (I know almost nothing about PQ.)

My version of MediaInfo reports the following:

Code:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\usually_quiet\Videos\LG Cymatic Jazz HDR10 4K Demo.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 1.11 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 60.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Writing application                      : Lavf57.72.101

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : hev1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Bit rate                                 : 60.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.121
Stream size                              : 1.11 GiB (100%)
Writing library                          : ATEME Titan KFE 3.7.3 (4.7.3.1003)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-04 23:05:26
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0040 cd/m2, max: 1100 cd/m2
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 min 38 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 126 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy

While playing the fake HDR10 file, VLC says "Color primaries: ITU-R BT.2020" and "Color transfer function: SMPTE ST2084" . SMPTE ST2084 is PQ.

Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329

Quote

12th May 2019 20:46 #8

Mikami

Member

So at the end I guess the PQ's one even though has the PQ transfer function, however the colour primaries are in Display P3, which Mac is supported on their retina display.
With the luminance of 48cdm I personally don't think this is in HDR. (I'm not expert in this field actually)

Quote

HDR10 not working?

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