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  1. Proof [MPV always on the right]attached

    Hello, hope this is the right section.

    So the output image on screen of mpc-hc or even potplayer (between those two there's no differences) is really different on color and brightness between the on from MPV.

    I installed LAV megafilters and using high end GPU settings for UHD displays, settings in MPV are the following:

    Code:
    priority = high
    keep-open = yes
    autofit-larger = 50%x50%
    scale = ewa_lanczossharp
    hwdec = auto-copy
    gpu-api = d3d11
    gpu-context = d3d11
    profile = gpu-hq
    video-sync = display-resample
    alang = eng,en,enUS,en-US,English,it,ita,Italian
    cache = 8388604
    cscale = ewa_lanczossharp
    dscale = ewa_lanczossharp
    So why are they so different? What is supposed to be the correct one?

    Also i have another question, what happens when i play HDR content on a non-HDR display?
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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  2. Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    What is supposed to be the correct one?
    Hard to say, to measure that you have to create a control like colorbars and measure yourself, you know how the control look like so it should be easy to tell the diferences between the two apps.
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  3. Video is stored as YUV. It has to be converted to RGB to be displayed. There are several different algorithms for doing so. The two main ones are called rec.601 and rec.709. They results in slightly different colors. In general, rec.601 is used for SD, rec.709 for HD. Some players always use one, some always use the other. Some will switch depending on whether the video is SD or HD. It's possible to flag which matrix to use withing the video. Some players will follow the flag, some won't.

    There are also two brightness/contrast conversion methods: limited range and full range. Almost all professional video sources (DVD, Blu-ray, Youtube, etc.) use limited range. If you use a full range matrix you will get the wrong brightness -- darks will be too light, brights won't be bright enough.

    The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.

    Beyond those there are several different output devices available to the player. They may use different matrices for the YUV to RGB conversion. They may have different proc amp settings. Players may have their own proc amp settings -- so even if everything else is the same they may deliver different colors.

    As amaipaipai said, you should get a calibration video and determine how to get the correct colors and levels from each of your players.
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  4. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    filter/codec megapacks are never a good thing.
    --
    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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  5. Originally Posted by amaipaipai View Post
    Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    What is supposed to be the correct one?
    Hard to say, to measure that you have to create a control like colorbars and measure yourself, you know how the control look like so it should be easy to tell the diferences between the two apps.
    Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.
    Sorry I don't get it, what do you mean by this?

    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    filter/codec megapacks are never a good thing.
    So what's the best/fastest way to reproduce a video with best quality on screen?
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  6. Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    filter/codec megapacks are never a good thing.
    So what's the best/fastest way to reproduce a video with best quality on screen?
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    Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?
    The best way is to use a vectorscope, but you can do it by eye. The yellow bar should be pure yellow and not the slightest bit orange. The cyan bar should not be bluish or greenish but exactly halfway between. Likewise, the magenta bar should not be bluish or reddish but exactly between the two. The white square in the bottom should be as bright as the display goes (at its current setting) and there should be exactly one narrow barely-visible gray bar in the midst of the black area to the right.
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  8. Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.
    Sorry I don't get it, what do you mean by this?
    I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error, and/or a limited range vs. full range error. So you have to look at other possible problems too -- as noted later in the post.

    For example, MPCHC has its own proc amp controls:
    Image
    [Attachment 49007 - Click to enlarge]


    Every graphics card driver has proc amp and other "enhancement" controls:
    Image
    [Attachment 49008 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 49009 - Click to enlarge]


    Players may use their own proc amp or the system proc amp.
    Last edited by jagabo; 7th May 2019 at 10:30.
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  9. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error
    Is the video HDR? Players may use vastly different tonemapping algorithms. If it's not HDR it could be some GPU driver setting ("image enhancements").
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  10. Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Also i have another question, what happens when i play HDR content on a non-HDR display?
    If the player/display doesn't do tonemapping (for example if it doesn't detect the source content is HDR) then colors will look washed out.
    Last edited by sneaker; 7th May 2019 at 10:25.
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  11. Member
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    Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
    Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Also i have another question, what happens when i play HDR content on a non-HDR display?
    If the player/display doesn't do tonemapping (for example if it doesn't detect the source content is HDR) then colors will look washed out.
    Yes. I have seen this. Based on my own experiences playing 2160p BT 2020 HDR10 video with Pot Player and VLC, PotPlayer does not do tone mapping on its own when used with an 8-bit display which does not support HDR or BT2020, although supposedly madvr can address that problem. However, I have not bothered to set up madvr. I have found that VLC does tone mapping for this kind of video when used with an 8-bit display which does not support HDR or BT2020.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  12. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.
    Sorry I don't get it, what do you mean by this?
    I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error, and/or a limited range vs. full range error. So you have to look at other possible problems too -- as noted later in the post.

    For example, MPCHC has its own proc amp controls:
    Image
    [Attachment 49007 - Click to enlarge]


    Every graphics card driver has proc amp and other "enhancement" controls:
    Image
    [Attachment 49008 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 49009 - Click to enlarge]


    Players may use their own proc amp or the system proc amp.
    Sorry i don't know how to multiquote...

    Everything is disabled, both in MPC-HC and radeon settings, the only thing i can find which might be related is "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" but disabling it doesn't make a difference
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  13. Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?
    The best way is to use a vectorscope, but you can do it by eye. The yellow bar should be pure yellow and not the slightest bit orange. The cyan bar should not be bluish or greenish but exactly halfway between. Likewise, the magenta bar should not be bluish or reddish but exactly between the two. The white square in the bottom should be as bright as the display goes (at its current setting) and there should be exactly one narrow barely-visible gray bar in the midst of the black area to the right.
    I'll attach the results, as before MPV is on the right, i don't reallt know which is better...
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	colorscomparision.PNG
Views:	14
Size:	2.98 MB
ID:	49010  

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  14. Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error
    Is the video HDR? Players may use vastly different tonemapping algorithms. If it's not HDR it could be some GPU driver setting ("image enhancements").
    There are no image enhancements ON as far as i can tell. The first 2 images are from "life untouched 4k demo", which it shouldn't be HDR, the last one is from "samsung travel with my pet hdr 4k demo" which is HDR, but image looks different even on 1080 sdr videos
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  15. Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    The first 2 images are from "life untouched 4k demo", which it shouldn't be HDR
    I downloaded it from here (md5: f2db8f6647f4f2a0b2417aed296fee73). It's HDR. Don't know about your version.

    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : Life Untouched 4K Demo.mp4
    Format                                   : MPEG-4
    Format profile                           : Base Media
    Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
    File size                                : 450 MiB
    Duration                                 : 3 min 17 s
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 19.1 Mb/s
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
    Writing application                      : Lavf57.72.101
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : HEVC
    Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@Main
    Codec ID                                 : hev1
    Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Duration                                 : 3 min 17 s
    Bit rate                                 : 18.9 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
    Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Variable
    Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
    Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
    Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 10 bits
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.038
    Stream size                              : 446 MiB (99%)
    Writing library                          : ATEME Titan File 3.7.2 (4.7.2.1001)
    Language                                 : English
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
    Color range                              : Limited
    Color primaries                          : BT.2020
    Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
    Codec configuration box                  : hvcC
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 2
    Format                                   : AAC LC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
    Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
    Duration                                 : 3 min 17 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Bit rate                                 : 127 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Channel layout                           : L R
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 2.96 MiB (1%)
    Default                                  : Yes
    Alternate group                          : 1
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
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  16. Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Originally Posted by Robert Paulson View Post
    Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?
    The best way is to use a vectorscope, but you can do it by eye. The yellow bar should be pure yellow and not the slightest bit orange. The cyan bar should not be bluish or greenish but exactly halfway between. Likewise, the magenta bar should not be bluish or reddish but exactly between the two. The white square in the bottom should be as bright as the display goes (at its current setting) and there should be exactly one narrow barely-visible gray bar in the midst of the black area to the right.
    I'll attach the results, as before MPV is on the right, i don't reallt know which is better...
    Those are essentially the same. Both with the correct color matrix and levels. It looks like your issue is HDR.
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  17. yes , plenty of errors , but shooting around correct values up to +-2 in 8bit RGB,

    so it is about that particular video and player dealing with that particular format
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  18. Thanks to everyone for the replies, so i have a BenQ EW3270U which, from my understanding, has a "fake" HDR in fact i'm using it with a custom profile, and should be 10bit, even if radeon settings only let me choose 8bit, if i select 10 bit the screen goes blank for a second then back to 8it, but this is another issue i guess.

    So which settings is the best to set in Madvr? Is ok like this?

    Thanks again
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