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  1. Hi, everyone!

    I want to convert a 2D PGS subtitle to a 3D HalfSBS subtitle without OCR, keeping the original subs as they are.

    I have a movie (in this case, disney's "The Little Mermaid") in both 2D and 3D. A 3D Blu-Ray featuring my language does not exist, as we never got the 3D version, but we do have a nice 2D version that does. So I bought both versions, thinking I'd take the audio and subtitles in my language from our local 2D release and add them to the 3D version.

    I ripped both versions with DVDFab, and encoded the 3D one to HalfSBS. As expected, everything synced perfectly right away. But...

    I want to maintain the styling of the subtitles, meaning I don't want to OCR them and use 3DSubtitler after. I just want to convert a 2D PGS to a 3D HalfSBS PGS.

    First, I tried ripping the 3D version without selecting 3D options in DVDFab, muxing the PGS in the result, and encode it to HalfSBS. It worked, but the subs were turned into VobSub. The option to choose VobSub or PGS subs wasn't present in DVDFab during encoding from this "remux". 11 Hours wasted lol.

    Then I found out about a tool called "Suppe3D.exe". It supposedly does what I need, but I can't find a download anywhere anymore.

    Then I tried BD3D2MK3D with the remuxed file from my first attempt, but it smells my file does not come from MakeMKV. I started suspecting DVDFab ditches the MVS during copying at this point.

    Then, I tried ripping the 2D version with 3D settings in DVDFab, hoping to extract the subs from the result and adding them to my HalfSBS encode. It again took 11 hours (even with CRF 30 and all settings on "Fast"), but it actually worked! Yay! The subs do appear a little low, but using BDSup2Sub, this can easily be fixed.

    I do, however, find 11 hours a incredibly long time to spend on just getting your subs right. Isn't there a easier and faster way to do this? Maybe preventing the need to reposition the subs?

  2. Hi, I'm the author of BD3D2MK3D.

    Normally, you have everything you need with BD3D2MK3D. And, as far as I know, it's the only software able to convert a 3D movie to SBS or TAB and preserve the original depth of the subtitles. (All other converters put the subtitles on the surface of the screen, and it's a terrible experience for the brain!)

    BD3D2MK3D requires as input an unencrypted ISO or a MKV created by MakeMKV with the original AVC and MVC video streams untouched. For the ISO input, you have to rip the BD to an unencrypted ISO first (for example with DVDFab HD Decrypter) or use an on the fly decrypting tool like AnyDVD HD. For the MakeMKV input, you should use MakeMKV (free while in beta with the key available here) to create a MKV with all audio and subtitle streams you need, plus the MVC video stream (disabled by default). Any other way to create a MKV is not compatible with BD3D2MK3D, as you will lose the important information from the MVC stream.

    Normally, BD3D2MK3D creates the final MKV automatically. However, it is easy to import an additional audio or subtitle stream, with some knowledge.

    To import your subtitle stream in 3D, you should generate the project with the 3DBD, and include at least one subtitle streams available in the 3DBD (with the option to convert it to 3D ticked in tab 2). I call that stream the "source stream" or "guide". It will be used later to position your subtitles correctly. For best results, select a language that ressembles your language.

    When the project is ready, extract the subtitle stream you need from the 2D BD, and convert it to 3D with Subtitles Tools -> Convert Subtitle to 3D (with 3D-Plane/OFS). You have to select the 3D-plane associated with the source subtitle stream. (See the end of the 3D-Planes.log file to see what stream is associated with what OFS file.) You may also have to use the "temp_2D.xml" file generated by BD3D2MK3D in the folder of the source subtitle stream as a guide for the subtitle positions on screen, if some source subtitles are placed at different positions on screen (for example, at the top of the screen, or to the left or right, to avoid entering in the foremost objects.) If you carefully select the right options, you should obtain a perfect (or almost perfect) 3D subtitle stream, with the right depth for each subtitle.

    When the conversion is finished, edit the file "__MUX_3D_OPTIONS.json" to replace the original subtitle stream with yours. You should change the track name, the language code and of course the file name, at the end of the section. (You may also need to change the --sync option if you need to resync the subtitles, but usually it's not necessary.) Note that BD3D2MK3D can keep the 3D and 2D versions of the subtitle stream (depending of the options selected in tab 2). If you kept the 2D version, you should edit the 2D subtitle too.

    Finally, launch __ENCODE_3D_LAUNCHER.cmd to generate the final MKV file, and everything should be fine.

    Note that you need a player that can display the 3D subtitles correctly. It's rarely the case with the hardware players, like most 3D TVs. If you cannot display the 3D subtitles correctly, I suggest to use the option to hardcode the 3D subtitles in the final image (in the last tab of BD3D2MK3D). The procedure is similar, but instead of modifying the file __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.json, you should edit the file __ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs, and simply replace the file name of the subtitle stream in the line beginning with SupTitle(.

    Good luck, and feel free to ask more info if necessary...
    Last edited by r0lZ; 15th Apr 2019 at 05:16.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  3. Thanks! Just using Subtitles Tools -> Convert Subtitle to 3D did the trick for me. I left the 3D plane field open. The subtitle placement was correct right away.

    Is it still necessary to follow the other steps? All Disney 3D BD's (including Marvel ones) I've encountered so far didn't have any depth, as far as I could see. Also, I think the number of subtitle lines might be different. Is this a problem?

  4. Well, if you did not use the 3D-plane, the subtitles cannot have the right depths. And I'm sure all Disney/Marvel releases have (good) 3D-Planes, with the correct depth for each subtitle. Only cheap and Asian movies (or the ISOs re-encoded for a BD25 usually found on the internet) have usually no depth or simply a fixed depth that is not suitable for all subtitles in the stream. Major US movies are always authored correctly.

    The placement of your stream can be correct in X and Y, but wrong in Z (the depth). So, if you want good results, you have to follow the instructions above. Or, if you can manage to extract the MVC video stream from your 3D-BD, you can simply extract the 3D-Planes from that stream with the command-line tool MVCPlanes2OFS.exe (available in the "toolset" folder of BD3D2MK3D) and use one of them to convert your subtitles.

    Of course, when the subtitle stream has been correctly converted to 3D, you do not need to encode the movie with BD3D2MK3D. You can just mux it with your video file already converted to SBS. The method I've explained above is more time consuming, but almost totally automatic, and IMO simpler. And as an additional benefit, you will encode your movie with x264, a MUCH better encoder than most commercial encoders.

    Of course, if you are happy with the subtitles entering in the foreground objects, it's up to you. Personally, I cannot support that !
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  5. Maybe Holland gets bad releases? I saw some headache inducing stuff on Civil War, for instance. Subtitles don't even move out of the way when disturbing 3D, like moving to the top, or the side of the screen or something.

    Anyway, I will try re-encoding with your tool, then, following the steps. Truth be told, I didn't like encoding with DVDFab one bit anyway, but at the time, I didn't know of any other tool that could encode to (Half)SBS. I usually use ffmpeg (which is similar to x264, I think?) and that worked for me for years. I was especially frustrated about DVDFab lacking a option to set quality/speed options, which I prefer at veryslow. Fortunately, your tool has it. If this works out (and I assume it does), I have a new favourite HalfSBS encoding tool.

    After that I've found out how to encode to HalfSBS with ffmpeg, but it would require me to first figure out which eye is the standard one, then set the appropriate options. Your tool is probably a lot simpeler.

    Thanks for everything! You're my hero this week.

    But you forgot to answer one question: Is it a problem if the number of subtitle lines in the 2D and 3D subs are different? Or does it grab the depth from the video.

  6. Oh, and one other question, can your tool also open BD Folders? Haven't succeeded in that except by mounting the folder as an ISO using another tool and open that.

    No big problem, as it works, but maybe I'm just doing something wrong. Your tool does say "open ISO or Folder" so I thought I'd ask.

  7. I don't think that Disney produces badly authored 3D BDs anywhere in the world. I lives in Belgium, and most releases are made for the whole Benelux. As I wrote above, I have never seen a Disney 3DBD without 3D-Planes. And I love animation, so I did many Disney. Anyway, if you re-encode your movie with BD3D2MK3D, you will see a warning if a specific subtitle stream you have converted has no 3D-Plane, or if the 3D-Plane contains only undefined depth values. (There are more details in the 3D-Planes.log file.)

    The number of subtitles differ usually for different languages. The 3D-Plane contains the depth values for all frames in the movie, so it doesn't matter much if a stream has more or less subtitles than the guide. However, there are also frames with "undefined depth" in the 3D-Plane. Usually, they are only where there is no subtitle to display. If your stream has a subtitle in that frames, it will not have the correct depth, but luckily, it's relatively rare. However, when you have the choice, I suggest to not use the subtitles of the original language of the movie for the guide, as it doesn't translate the strings shown in the video (called "forced subtitles"). For example, the title of an English movie can be translated to your language, but since it is displayed on screen in English, there is of course no English subtitle to duplicate it, and there will probably be no depth values when the title appears. It's why it is preferable to use a language similar to yours for the guide, like Spanish for a French stream, where all forced subtitles are translated. The global number of characters in the translation may also be important, as it influences directly the width of the subtitles, and wider subtitles may not perfectly fit between the foreground objects. Choosing a more verbose language for the guide may therefore give better results.

    BD3D2MK3D can open BD folders, yes, but I strongly suggest to create only an ISO, as ripping to a folder will create two times all video files for all 3D content, and that will be long and consume much disc space. It's due to the specific 3D format, with a file for the 2D content, and one for the 3D. Both are merged together within a third file, virtual on the BD, but that will (probably) be created in the folder, hence doubling the file size. Also, ripping to an ISO is usually faster and safer.

    Or you can use the MakeMKV method. Since you need to process only the main movie (without the menus and bonus) and the audio and subtitle streams you really need, it's certainly the most rapid method, and it requires less disc space. Just don't forget to tick the MVC stream, or you will rip only the 2D version of the movie. It might also be a good idea to tick the JPEG picture at the end of the stream list if you want it as the icon for your 3D MKV file.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  8. I already knew about the foreign language for the "guide" subtitle as you call it thing, but thanks anyway. The standard subs tend to be subs for the hearing impaired with some movies, so I'm well aware. Not sure if it's possible in this case, but nevermind. The only forced subtitle in this case is the movie title anyway. And in this case, the background at that moment is far in the back, so there shouldn't be any problems there.

    I prefer ISO too, but I have some Folders ripped that won't convert to iso. Guess I'll have to re-rip them to ISO directly. Or use the mounting method and delete the folders after. It's mainly just so my daughters and sister can enjoy the movie in 3D, as they don't speak English (fully) yet. They probably don't care about the extras anyway. The ISO/folder is only for ripping/encoding.

    Oh, and one last question. On the rightmost tab on your tool where you select the SBS/OU/FS stuff, it says "left view always first". Does this just mean that the Left eye will become the left side of your SBS file, or does it mean that it always assume the left eye is standard view? Some BD's, like Jungle Book, for instance, have right eye as standard view.

    Thx for everything! Bedankt voor alles!

  9. The subs for the hearing impaired are usually good to use for the guide, because they are much numerous than the standard translation subs. The risk of undefined frames is therefore less important than with the standard stream (with perhaps the exception of some forced subs).

    The de-facto standard of the views order is left view to the left for SBS and on top for TAB. BD3D2MK3D is smart enough to extract the order of the view from the 3D BD (with, as far as I know, only one exception of a badly authored BD). It swaps the views automatically if it's necessary, to respect the de-facto standard. Therefore, the views of the final SBS video are normally always in the correct order. (The option Right View First in the dialog of the 3D conversion of the subtitles is useful only if you want to generate the 3D subs for a downloaded SBS/TAB with inverted views, like some shorts available on Youtube. It should never be used for a movie converted by BD3D2MK3D.)
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  10. Thx again. Suspected as much. I still have one question, tho. Should really be the last one.

    There is an option to only use the core 5.1 audio of DTS-HD MA, TrueHD and E-AC3. Why is it HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to tick this box? I'd like to preserve the DTS-HD MA.

  11. Oh, "highly" is perhaps too much! It is mainly there for historical reasons, as when I started to write BD3D2MK3D, most TVs were unable to play the HD tracks.

    The problem is that a DTS HD-MA track on the BD is in fact composed of two different tracks, merged together so that only one track is visible to the user. Many peoples think that their TV or audio equipment can play the HD-MA track, but in fact, only the 5.1 DTS track is really used. In a MKV container, it is not possible to keep the two merged tracks together, so you have to select only the DTS or the HD-MA sub-track. I recommend DTS for compatibility reasons, and also because it doesn't consume much disc size, but of course, if you know what you are doing, you can keep the HD-MA track. (Be sure to select the right track also in MakeMKV if you use that extraction method.)

    It's not the same thing with AC3/THD, where there is really a core and an extension, and things are usually better understood by the users. Again, you may prefer the quality over the file size. It's your choice.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  12. Not only does it say "highly", it's in caps even lol.

    I do prefer quality over file size. At least since I got my new hdd. I play my stuff usually through a Sony BD player or a modded PS3, both of which seem to accept DTS-HD MA just fine.

    But I'm pretty sure MKV can contain DTS-HDMA and only use what's necessary. I have created lots of MKV files that say "Master Audio / Core" and "8 / 6 channels" on mediainfo. They also work perfectly fine, even if 7.1 HDMA is played on a 5.1 set.

  13. Hum, strange. Perhaps things have changed. Thanks for the info. I will verify, and if necessary, modify BD3D2MK3D...
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  14. Hi, it's been a while, but I've been really busy. Anyways, I've been experimenting with your tool quite a bit now, and found some things I thought I'd mention. None of these are complaints, just sharing my expierences, hoping to help you improve your tool, so that it might become the only 3D-ripping software suite you ever need to use. I would love that.

    The solution you mentioned above does work like a charm, but it does require some editing. When I applied the 2D XML's X and Y axes of the German subs to the Dutch subs on another project, some of them were slightly off, I suspect the German subs sometimes have 1 line where the Dutch ones have 2 or vice-versa. Or maybe the "" character. This is easily fixed with BDSup2Sub++, which fortunately is included in your package, by using the edit frame function and fixing the Y values. Then one needs to watch the movie with the newly exported subs and fix the couple instances were text still goes into foreground objects by manually adjusting either the depth or location of said lines. Then you indeed have 100% perfect results. But unfortunatly this process can't be automated. This is not a complaint, just a heads up for others who need to do this too.

    Then, there's another thing one needs to be aware of. Sometimes not all subtitle lines are ripped when you rip the "guide" subtitles from the BD. So far, it happened to me twice that only about the first 60 lines were ripped. Both were Disney movies (UK Jungle Book remake and Dutch Beauty and the Beast Classic), but not all Disney's do this. I have seen others export all subtitles fine. I suspect it's because of one the external tools your program uses, but I thought I'd mention. In fact, only the HDBDStreamExtractor tool for eac3to never failed to rip even one line for me. Many SUP extractors (even just 2D ones) produce subs which sometimes miss 1-5 lines throughout the movie. I fix this problem when I encounter it by extracting the subs with HDBDStreamExtractor, then apply the 3d-planes to those with your tool. Haven't tested if that works yet, but I'm 99.99% sure it does. Unless your tool stops ripping the 3d-planes after 60 lines too, but seeing as it's done in a different step, I suspect it doesn't. Will test that asap. Maybe you can fix this by including HDBDStreamExtractor in BD3D2MK3D?

    Last time I tried using it to encode, it failed on me, but that might be because of lack of good video drivers or some plugins. Will look into it soon.

    And about the HD-MA vs hardware thing, I can confirm the following: DTS-HD MA 5.1 works on literally every piece of hardware I own, most of which is pretty old. DTS-HD MA 7.1 is a different story. 7.1 produces ear raping noise on all my stuff, except a modded PS3 and a Sony 3D Blu-Ray 5.1 Home Theater set, wich just use the 5.1 DTS core and still make it sound awesome. They even mention "DTS-HD MA 7.1 not supported. Using 5.1 DTS core" like a true gentleman. I think most hardware can't use just the 5.1 core, and that's why some devices can, and most can't? Anyways, just wanted to let you know it's a 7.1 thing and not a HD MA thing.

    Other than that, this tool is perfection itself!
    Last edited by RajaSteve; 13th Oct 2019 at 10:38.

  15. Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    The solution you mentioned above does work like a charm, but it does require some editing. When I applied the 2D XML's X and Y axes of the German subs to the Dutch subs on another project, some of them were slightly off, I suspect the German subs sometimes have 1 line where the Dutch ones have 2 or vice-versa. Or maybe the "" character.
    Correct. It's IMO a minor problem. The logic that grabs the positions from the guide file doesn't take into account the number of lines, or the height of some special characters. It just moves the center of the subtitle to the center of the guide. However, someone else has made a similar remark for the conversion of SRT to ASS 3D. I have added an option to grab the X or Y positions only, or both. (For Y, you have the additional possibility to grab the positions of the guide subtitles that are located in the upper half of the screen only.) This way, if you are sure that the Y positions of the string to convert and the guide are (almost) identical, you can keep the Y position unchanged, and avoid the problem. Of course, that doesn't work when the subtitles are at very different Y positions, like in Avatar.

    I can implement a similar option for the conversion of BD SUB to 3D if you wish.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Then, there's another thing one needs to be aware of. Sometimes not all subtitle lines are ripped when you rip the "guide" subtitles from the BD.
    As far as I know, it is correct that some subtitles are lost in rare cases, when the original stream is converted to any format by BDSub2Sub. It's why currently, I don't convert the original subtitles to 2D any more. (I did that in the past to fix some rare problems in the original stream, but since there are other problems, I have abandoned the idea.) More precisely, the stream is still converted to 2D (because I need it for 3D), but the original stream is muxed when the user wants the 2D streams, instead of the converted stream. Unfortunately, for the 3D subs, I have to convert the original stream to 2D XML/PNG first, so the bug cannot be avoided.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    In fact, only the HDBDStreamExtractor tool for eac3to never failed to rip even one line for me.
    Hum, interesting info. If it's correct, that means that the culprit is not BDSub2Sub, but tsMuxeR, that produces perhaps somewhat buggy SUP files (at least in some cases). I will try to investigate this, and with some luck that bug will be fixed rapidly.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Maybe you can fix this by including HDBDStreamExtractor in BD3D2MK3D?
    Well, it's difficult. The problem is that extracting the subtitles is a long operation, and currently, it is made at the same time as the video and audio streams and the chapters with tsMuxeR. I don't want to force the users to wait again for a new demux just for that irritating but rare bug. Also, doing that will require big changes in my source code, and I don't want to risk to introduce new bugs. Anyway, you know how to fix the problem manually, and doing it the rare times it's necessary will not kill you.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Last time I tried using it to encode, it failed on me, but that might be because of lack of good video drivers or some plugins. Will look into it soon.
    Please let me know if you encounter the problem again, and try to describe clearly what happened. Also, be sure to use the latest version, and install AniSynth+ 64-bit (now the recommended version) if it is not already installed.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    And about the HD-MA vs hardware thing, I can confirm the following: DTS-HD MA 5.1 works on literally every piece of hardware I own, most of which is pretty old. DTS-HD MA 7.1 is a different story. 7.1 produces ear raping noise on all my stuff, except a modded PS3 and a Sony 3D Blu-Ray 5.1 Home Theater set, wich just use the 5.1 DTS core and still make it sound awesome. They even mention "DTS-HD MA 7.1 not supported. Using 5.1 DTS core" like a true gentleman. I think most hardware can't use just the 5.1 core, and that's why some devices can, and most can't? Anyways, just wanted to let you know it's a 7.1 thing and not a HD MA thing.
    I must admit that I forgot to verify if MkvToolnix can really mux a DTS-HD-MA with its 5.1 (pseudo-)core. IIRC, when I've tried that, the core was silently removed (as you can verify if you demux the stream: the original 7.1+5.1 was larger than the 7.1-only demuxed stream.) Perhaps things have changed now. I will have a look.

    Also, IIRC, old audio equipment cannot "see" the 7.1 MA stream in a BD, and they are supposed to detect and play only the 5.1 sub-stream. Of course, some more recent players, like your Sony, can perhaps detect the 7.1 stream, and still refuse to play it, due to its lack of the right decoder. And everything can be different with MKV files.

    Anyway, your experience tends to accredit the fact that muxing the two substreams as a combined stream is not a good idea. Personally, I would prefer to mux them as two totally independent streams, and it will be the responsivity of the user to select the stream that works best for his equipment.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Other than that, this tool is perfection itself!


    And I have just changed the HIGHLY RECOMMENDED string in the second tab to "for compatibility & disc space".
    Last edited by r0lZ; 13th Oct 2019 at 12:48. Reason: See next post
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  16. Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    I must admit that I forgot to verify if MkvToolnix can really mux a DTS-HD-MA with its 5.1 (pseudo-)core. IIRC, when I've tried that, the core was silently removed (as you can verify if you demux the stream: the original 7.1+5.1 was larger than the 7.1-only demuxed stream.) Perhaps things have changed now. I will have a look
    Are you sure you're not confusing this with AC3+TrueHD? You cannot remove a DTS core without breaking the stream completely. The HD-MA part is an extension of the core and doesn't work without it. Only AC3+TrueHD are truly independent.

    https://gitlab.com/mbunkus/mkvtoolnix/wikis/TrueHD-and-AC-3

  17. Oh, yes. Sorry. Big confusion. I'm tired.
    So, if you don't tick the "Use 5.1 core" option, you got the full 7.1 stream. It is up to you to decide, and I don't see what I can do, except changing the HIGHLY RECOMMENDED warning (and I just did it.)
    End of story.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  18. Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Unfortunately, for the 3D subs, I have to convert the original stream to 2D XML/PNG first, so the bug cannot be avoided.
    Actually, it can. You can extract the stream with HDBDStreamExctractor, and convert that result to XML+PNG.

    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Hum, interesting info. If it's correct, that means that the culprit is not BDSub2Sub, but tsMuxeR, that produces perhaps somewhat buggy SUP files (at least in some cases). I will try to investigate this, and with some luck that bug will be fixed rapidly.
    It hasn't failed me so far. I hate the extra time it takes, but at least this method works.

    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Anyway, you know how to fix the problem manually, and doing it the rare times it's necessary will not kill you.
    Correct, but it's not that rare. It happens to me about 30% of the times. Although, like I said, coincidentally, I mainly tried it on Disney stuff.

    About the HD-MA, turns out there is a DTS core that DOES includes extensions. I don't know if that's just the 2 extra channels or some other stuff, but I think sneaker is right, considering what I've found out so far.

    And I can confirm MKVToolNix can mux those files correctly. Sometimes it produces a glitching file, but try the same thing again and it will work.

  19. I trust you, but as I've explained above, I can't use HDBDStreamExctractor, as it's way too long, and too difficult for me.

    Yes, MkvToolnix can mux 7.1 DTS-MA files. It's the "double" AC3 streams that it cannot mux as one single stream. Same confusion, and sorry again.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  20. Anyways, if the 3D-planes are ripped fully, I can work around it. I will test it asap, should be by next weekend in a worst-case scenario.

    But you must agree it would be cool if everything could be done from one tool.

    I tend to avoid THD and haven't really tested it on hardware yet, although I can convert it to DTS-HD MA...

  21. Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    if the 3D-planes are ripped fully
    Yes, they are. The extraction of the 3D-Planes is not at all related to the demuxing of the subtitles. (The 3D-Planes are SEI messages embedded in the MVC video stream.)
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  22. Finally found the time to test the project I started this topic for, and it was awesome! In this case, there wasn't even any editing required, as the subtitles were always in the usual location in the guide subs, so I didn't need to clone X and Y values. And the 3D-planes were fully compatible. Thanks, man!

    I noticed eac3to being in your toolset folder, and considering HdBrStreamExtractor is a mere GUI for that, I think it might be possible (easy maybe even) to fix the bad SUP extraction after all. Of course, that's all up to you, like you said, it's easy to fix manually. Just thought I'd mention. If it's easy to re-write your code to use eac3to for SUP extraction you should be golden. I also noticed that BDSup2Sub++ tends to handle SUP much better than the regular BDSup2Sub, so I hope your tool uses ++. I've seen many cases where the regular version will give errors and skip some lines (sometimes a LOT of them), which ++ will correctly include. What does your tool use, exactly?

    I haven't finished it yet, but after installing AviSynth+, your tool now lets me encode. So that probably was the culprit.

  23. Thanks for the thanks, man !

    In fact, the two BDSup2Sub versions have their own bugs. I have described them here. For that reason, BD3D2MK3D uses the two versions: the java version to open an XML stream, and the ++ version for a SUP file. You can easily see what version it uses if you open your stream with the menu Subtitle Tools -> Open Subtitle Stream in BDSup2Sub. That tool asks the filename, and then calls the best BDSup2Sub version, with a few command line arguments, necessary for example to avoid the little problem of the java version when you don't specify the frame rate. That doesn't mean that the method used by BD3D2MK3D to convert the subtitles to 3D is totally exempt of bugs, but I think they are avoided as much as possible (except perhaps for the missed subtitles bugs you have noticed).

    BD3D2MK3D uses mainly eac2to to convert the audio streams to AC3 or AAC, but it uses it also to demux all streams in some very rare cases, when the MPLS is made of a lot of small M2TS files, because there is a bug in tsMuxeR, that crashes when there are too many entries in its list of files to join together (probably a buffer overflow). As you can see, the demux is already very complicated, as I have to take the bugs of the third party programs into account. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the idea to add again a new complexity, but the main reason is the additional time it will take to demux everything in several passes.

    Also, honestly, I don't know at all HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Stream Extractor, but obviously it's only a GUI. So, I can probably add the code to demux the subtitles with the command line of eac3to only, but the problem is the fact that the program will have to do an additional pass just for that. Perhaps I can add a little helper in the Subtitles Tools menu to demux the subtitles only with eac3to and then convert them (again) to 3D if there are more subtitles in the new streams. You will have to select that tool manually after the main job is finished, and before opening another BD or selecting another MPLS so that the list of streams to keep and the list of the 3D-Planes assignments are still available. Unless you want to hardcode a subtitle stream in the video stream, you can do that after having launched the encoding. Is it OK for you ?
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  24. I have had a look at my code for the demux, and I remember now why I CANNOT use eac3to to demux the subtitles (and why I use it only when it is absolutely impossible to do the demux with tsMuxer). Originally, BD3D2MK3D used eac3to to demux everything, but I have discovered rapidly a terrible bug with the subtitles of some 3DBDs.

    To understand the eac3to bug, you must know a few things. A movie in a 3DBD has 2 video streams : the AVC, or 2D h264 stream, and the MVC, or dependent stream, used only for the 3D. For compatibility reasons, the 2D AVC stream is stored in the 2D M2TS file, with all audio and subtitle streams, and the MVC video stream is stored alone in another M2TS file, that is referenced in the 3D extension of the playlist (the MPLS file). Since a 2D-only BD player doesn't read the 3D extension, it opens only the 2D M2TS, fully compatible with a 2D player. In the other hand, a 3D player must read the video streams in two M2TS files at the same time. Since bly-ray is a slow media, it is not possible to seek back and forth to read each frame in the corresponding stream. For that reason, the 2 M2TS files are interleaved together on the disk, and referenced together as a third, virtual file, the SSIF, that contains everything necessary to play the 3D movie.

    The problem of the subtitles is that, on some 3DBD, the same subtitle stream is stored TWO TIMES: once in the 2D M2TS with the AVC video, as it should, and once in the 3D-specific M2TS, with the MVC stream. That's not a good idea, as the SSIF contains now two identical streams with the same UID, and if the demuxer uses the SSIF to demux everything, it gets confused by the two streams. It's exactly what happens with eac3to. It is TOTALLY UNABLE to demux properly the subtitle streams in that case. It issues thousands of error messages and usually it crashes before the end of the process. Although many 3DBDs do not have that problem, that case is NOT rare. For example, Avatar has that problem ! It's why I have had to switch to tsMuxer to demux everything. Of course, I can't go back to eac3to, as that bug has never been fixed.

    So, to summarize, there are theoretically two possibilities: eac3to that will not work at all with some specific BDs but will demux correctly the others, and tsmuxer that can demux all BDs but misses some subtitles in some cases. I prefer the second solution, although I agree that it is not perfect. And I cannot add a second demux for the subtitles only in the main process, as if eac3to crashes, it will be impossible to complete the job. So, I can only propose to do what I have suggested in my previous post: add a tool that you will have to launch manually after having finished the main job, and that can offer better result in some cases, crash completely on others, and give the same result in most cases. (I suppose I can try to count the number of subtitles extracted by tsMuxer during the main process, and by eac3to with the additional tool, and display a dialog to inform the user in the case of eac3to has obtained a better result, but I'm not sure, as that will be two totally separated processes.)
    Last edited by r0lZ; 21st Oct 2019 at 06:26.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  25. Thx for the info. So the .ssif is a virtual file? Why do I see it physicly on my discs, then? Getting confused lol.

    Anyways, your idea for the extra tool might be a good idea. Although, if it requires an extra pass, it would only save the user like 4 mouse-clicks. It wouldn't have saved time even if you did switch back to eac3to. You could also add an option to choose wether to use eac3to or tsMuxer for subtitle demuxing. But like I said, it won't save you much time.

    Your theory is very likely correct, so getting 3D subs right will probably always require being aware of all bugs you mentioned. But at least it's possible.

    Will try to test eac3to-extracted subs with BD3D2MK3D-extracted 3D-planes soon. This will tell us if your tool does extract the full 3D-planes even when tsMuxer only extracts the first 60 or so subs. I think it will work tho.

  26. Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Thx for the info. So the .ssif is a virtual file? Why do I see it physicly on my discs, then? Getting confused lol.
    Well, the SSIF file "exists", but it is just a trick at the file-system level. It is some kind of concatenation of the two M2TS files necessary to play the 3D version of the movie, but the actual content of these files is not duplicated. Think at the SSIF as a shortcut or a link to the two M2TS files at a time. (BTW, that SSIF file is the reason why it is not recommended to copy the content of a 3D BD as files on hard disk. All M2TS files will be copied, and the SSIF too. Therefore, the content of all 3D clips is copied twice, and the size of the directory is much greater than the size of the original BD. There is no problem to copy the 3DBD as an ISO, because the file system is not modified, and the SSIF is still just a "link".)

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Anyways, your idea for the extra tool might be a good idea. Although, if it requires an extra pass, it would only save the user like 4 mouse-clicks. It wouldn't have saved time even if you did switch back to eac3to. You could also add an option to choose wether to use eac3to or tsMuxer for subtitle demuxing. But like I said, it won't save you much time.
    I agree. The extra demux pass is necessary anyway, even if I include it in the main job. It's why I don't want to do it. The tool I propose is just a simplification for the newbie, of little interest for you.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Your theory is very likely correct, so getting 3D subs right will probably always require being aware of all bugs you mentioned. But at least it's possible.
    Yes. And I appreciate your efforts to do it the perfect way.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Will try to test eac3to-extracted subs with BD3D2MK3D-extracted 3D-planes soon. This will tell us if your tool does extract the full 3D-planes even when tsMuxer only extracts the first 60 or so subs. I think it will work tho.
    There is no need to verify that. I know that the 3D-Planes are correct for ALL subtitles (unless you use the wrong 3D-Plane or an external subtitle file). As I wrote previously, the 3D-Planes are in the MVC stream, not in the subtitle stream. Therefore, if the video can be correctly demuxed, the 3D-Planes are complete and corrects.

    But convert your eac3to subs to 3D with the right 3D-Plane anyway. You should obtain the perfect 3D subtitles.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  27. Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    All M2TS files will be copied, and the SSIF too. Therefore, the content of all 3D clips is copied twice, and the size of the directory is much greater than the size of the original BD.
    I've never seen this happen before, but I believe you. DVD Fab is capable of ripping a 3D BD to a folder without adding files, by the way. Either way, I prefer ISO anyway.

    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    There is no need to verify that. I know that the 3D-Planes are correct for ALL subtitles (unless you use the wrong 3D-Plane or an external subtitle file).
    Unfortunately, I must report that this isn't true. Even when not adding new subtitles. I tested the Dutch 3D BD of Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" (1991), which had the problem, and found that there wasn't any depth in subtitles after the first 60 or so. Probably the same thing which prevents the subs from being fully extracted, happens to the 3D-planes too. Or maybe the depths of the ignored subtitles are removed because the program can't see the subs they are assigned too? I do, however, need to say, I added the subs to my already encoded video, and didn't check to see if the video and audio were extracted fully by your tool, and threw them away. Will try again and verify.

    Maybe it does work in those cases were just 1 or 2 lines are missing throughout the entire movie, but in the case when only the first 60 or so subtitles are extracted, I can guarantee you, the 3D-planes are only exported for those lines too. Probably some weird demuxing problem again.

    I also noticed the .ofl files being really small. Like around 9kb, instead of the usual ~120kb. I also recall the extraction process of said project to take unusually fast, so I think the video wasn't fully demuxed either. Like I said, will try again from scratch and verify.

    Can mkvtoolnix re-mux a 3D BD whilst keeping the important information from the MVS stream intact, by any chance? This could tell us if tsMuxer really is the culprit.

    Edit: HdBrStreamExtractor lists AVS and MVS separetely and can demux them. Haven't got a clue if they keep things like 3D-planes tho. But maybe that will help getting full 3D-planes for said movie. Will try.

    Edit 2: Using HdBrStreamExtractor on BD's that have this problem will fail.
    Last edited by RajaSteve; 26th Oct 2019 at 04:23.

  28. Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    DVD Fab is capable of ripping a 3D BD to a folder without adding files, by the way.
    Right, but DBDFab is not a simple copier. It doesn't copy the SSIF files because it knows that it's not necessary. It is the job of the authoring tool to recreate them. What I mean is : if you do a simple copy (say with the Windows File Explorer) the SSIF will be copied too, and in that case, the disc size will explode.
    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    There is no need to verify that. I know that the 3D-Planes are correct for ALL subtitles (unless you use the wrong 3D-Plane or an external subtitle file).
    Unfortunately, I must report that this isn't true. Even when not adding new subtitles. I tested the Dutch 3D BD of Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" (1991), which had the problem, and found that there wasn't any depth in subtitles after the first 60 or so. Probably the same thing which prevents the subs from being fully extracted, happens to the 3D-planes too. Or maybe the depths of the ignored subtitles are removed because the program can't see the subs they are assigned too? I do, however, need to say, I added the subs to my already encoded video, and didn't check to see if the video and audio were extracted fully by your tool, and threw them away. Will try again and verify.
    That's simply impossible, at least if there is no bug in the tools you use to demux or remux. If you assign the correct 3D-plane number to the subtitle stream, you will have EXACTLY the same depth than in the original. And no, the 3D-Plane will NOT be cleared because some subtitles are missing. There is one byte per frame in each 3D-Plane anyway, and there is no sense to replace an existing valid depth with the value 0x80 (meaning "not defined") as there will be no disc size gain. But take care. Some programs display wrong 3D-Plane numbers (notably tsMuxeR). If you trust them, you may have assigned the 3D-Plane for, say, a forced subtitle stream to your stream, and that can explain the problem.

    To verify that the 3D-Planes do NOT change during a simple remux, use BD3D2MK3D on the original and the remux, and compare the log files.
    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Maybe it does work in those cases were just 1 or 2 lines are missing throughout the entire movie, but in the case when only the first 60 or so subtitles are extracted, I can guarantee you, the 3D-planes are only exported for those lines too.
    I can only repeat that it's impossible, unless there is a bug during the demux or remux.
    I suppose you use tsMuxeR for both. Right ?
    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    I also noticed the .ofl files being really small. Like around 9kb, instead of the usual ~120kb. I also recall the extraction process of said project to take unusually fast, so I think the video wasn't fully demuxed either. Like I said, will try again from scratch and verify.
    Indeed, that indicates a problem. Your 3D-Plane has been damaged. Normally, an OFS file has one byte per frame, plus a small header. So, for a 1:30 movie at 23.976 fps, the size is around 130,000 bytes, including the header. And since it is illegal to add incomplete 3D-planes (with less bytes than the number of frames), I can only conclude that something is wrong in your process.
    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Can mkvtoolnix re-mux a 3D BD whilst keeping the important information from the MVS stream intact, by any chance? This could tell us if tsMuxer really is the culprit.
    Mkvtoolnix is unable to recreate a BD. But you can use MakeMKV to mux the original video streams (AVC+MVC) in a big MKV. Here again, the 3D-Planes are correctly preserved (and can be used by BD3D2MK3D).
    Anyway, if the 3D-Plane is damaged after a BD remux by tsMuxeR, that means that it is the culprit. Note that I have never wrote that a buggy program will correctly remux the 3D-Planes. Only that they are always intact after a demux.
    I don't use tsMuxeR to remux, and I don't know its bugs. It may be the culprit, but during the mux operation only. It works perfectly well to demux, including the 3D-Planes.

    Originally Posted by RajaSteve View Post
    Edit: HdBrStreamExtractor lists AVS and MVS separetely and can demux them. Haven't got a clue if they keep things like 3D-planes tho. But maybe that will help getting full 3D-planes for said movie. Will try.

    Edit 2: Using HdBrStreamExtractor on BD's that have this problem will fail.
    That confirms that the BD has not been correctly muxed. And of course, in that case, you can't trust the result of a new demux.

    It's a good thing to know, especially for me and BD3D2MK3D. Currently, BD3D2MK3D uses the 3D-Planes extracted from the BD without verifying them, but if it is true that tsMuxeR cannot remux them correctly, that means that BD3D2MK3D should verify at least if the 3D-Planes contain the right number of frames. I will modify my code so that if it's not the case, it will issue a warning and recommend to not use remuxed BDs as input. So thanks for your report. And please confirm if the problem happens with other BDs too (without missing subtitles). Thanks in advance.
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV

  29. I have tested, and in this case, the video and audio wasn't fully demuxed either, so I didn't notice it because I used it with a DVD Fab-encoded video.

    Come to think of it, I might've been using AnyDVD at the time to rip these 2. Either way, I think it's probably the result of ripping to a folder. I tried ripping Lion King 1995 3D to ISO with DVD Fab, and that worked just fine. I think ripping to a folder strips stuff from a MVS.

    What probably went wrong is that tsMuxer freaks out on noticing some files are either missing or modified, and stops. This would explain the 9kb .ofs file, as well. Funny thing is, your tool seems to know it will happen, as the ETA was also 2mins instead of the usual 20.

    So I'm 99.99% positive it is indeed caused by a faulty rip. Sorry for confusing you lol. Those 2 were my very first rips. Will re-rip them soon and confirm.

    Edit: And I take the 3D-planes numbers from your tool, so that's not it. But the fact that video wasn't fully extracted already established this.
    Last edited by RajaSteve; 26th Oct 2019 at 06:52.

  30. OK, thanks for the clarification.

    BTW, if you don't want to remux but just convert to MKV SBS or TAB with BD3D2MK3D, I suggest to give MakeMKV a try. It has the big advantage that it can process only the main movie (without the menu, bonus and other useless stuff) and you can select the audio and subtitles streams you really need. Therefore, it is faster than having to do an full ISO, and the temp file takes less space on your hard disc. Just be sure to select also the MVC stream (disabled by default). MakeMKV is free while in beta if you use the key provided here. As far as I know, it works well, and doesn't truncate the 3D-Planes.

    Please let me know if you encounter again the bug of the missing subtitles, as that might be independent of the 3D-Planes problem.

    Good luck with your new encodes...
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV




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