MakeMKV won't read BD folders, so I'd need to convert it to ISO first, but thx for the tip anyways.
I could try, but something tells me that the MVS is already messed up, and that re-rip is needed.
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MakeMKV to rip and decrypt the original BD, not to make a MKV from potentially buggy files.
BTW, it's AVC and MVC (for Advanced Video Codec and Multi-View Codec), not AVS and MVS.
I wasn't aware MakeMKV could decrypt. Thought decryption needed to happen before loading into MakeMKV.
Encoding now works fine for me. The reason I couldn't encode before was probably me running the "_ENCODE_3D_LAUNCHER" as admin (which for some reason doesn't work) or lack of AviSynth. Or both.
Anyways, the converting the 2D to 3D without OCR thing works like a charm, so we might be getting offtopic here now, but I must say, I found that it encodes to a very low bitrate. Even DVD Fab produces better results. Although that's on x264, not on you. But even when setting the CRF to 16 and forcing the h264 level to 4.1, and using the veryslow preset, video bitrate averages around 7000kb/ps, which are, of course, DVD-level bitrates, although this might be easily fixed by adding a -minrate parameter to the command-line or simply lowering the CRF. The resulting file was around 4GB. I prefer them around 15GB.
Either way, I can always just encode the video myself. This topic taught me getting 3D subs right is a much harder task than the actual encoding, and your tool gets it done. I probably would have never known depths COULD be ripped without you, so thanks for both your tool and your support! Again.
Is there a possibility to feed your BD3D2MK3D settings from to ffmpeg? I'm not asking to include it in your program or anything, but maybe something like a button on the final tab, and when you click it, it would show you the line to use for ffmpeg, or even copy it to the clipboard. Or maybe generate a batch file for it during the project generating stage. Of course, I am, by now, experienced enough to "translate" the setting myself, but it would be really cool. I can understand if you don't want to make your tool any more complicated than it already is, tho.
If you want, I could write a tutorial about what to do when a project has problem X or encounters bug Y to include with your tool. Consider it a thanks for your help. And I want to help make it easier for newbies out there.
Regarding the low bitrate, I have just used the default CRF value of x264 (and x265) as the default for BD3D2MK3D, as I think that the programmers of these excellent pieces of software know what they are doing. Of course, you are free to change the CRF value. Personally, I don't understand the obsession for a high bitrate many peoples seem to have. It is probably due to dated and extremely badly documented explanations you can find on the internet. I prefer to trust ONLY my eyes. A clean animated movie (such as a Pixar film) can be encoded with an extremely low bitrate without much quality lost, just because it is easy to compress. But I did recently 3D oldies with much noise, and they requires 5 times the same bitrate for an equivalent quality. So, IMO, telling something like "the quality cannot be good below a file size of 15 GB" doesn't make sense. And I can't approve the idea of using -minrate to force a higher bitrate. You will just obtain a bigger file, with useless bitrate lost in easy parts to compress (such as in the end credits), with no overall benefit. Using a lower CRF is the right thing to do, but the final bitrate will highly depend of the content of the movie. Also, note that using the veryslow preset compresses even better, and with a better quality (but the video is harder to decode, and therefore you may experience some glitches with slow hardware players). If you really WANT a high bitrate, use the ultrafast preset. You will obtain a much larger file... with a less good quality ! Another evidence that quality and bitrate are not synonyms.
For ffmpeg, sorry but no. You can do the opposite: use BD3D2MK3D to generate everything AND encode with ffmpeg if you wish. Just select Settings -> AVC/HEVC Encoder -> Use your own custom command for encoding, and insert the command with its parameters in the last tab. YOU have to know what parameters to use. I can't add a lot of (useless for most users) tools to convert things or use external tools to do things that BD3D2MK3D does perfectly. Also, honestly, I can't see the advantage of using ffmpeg to encode in AVC when you have x264 at your disposal. x264 is certainly the best free AVC encoder, so why use another one ? The option to use your own encoder has been added at the request of an user, to be able to encode faster with a GPU enabled encoder. The quality will be less good, but at least, there is an important gain: the speed. I don't think it's the case with ffmpeg, so why use it ?
Thanks for your proposition to write a tutorial. Honestly, I have already had the intention to write one to explain how to add a custom 3D subtitle stream from a SRT, using only SubtitleEdit (for the conversion to BD SUP with the correct default placement of the subtitles) and the various tools provided by BD3D2MK3D. I have already written a mini-guide, but it is far from complete, and lost in a very long thread. Now that you know how to do the conversion, perhaps you can try to write a better one. It's up to you. Thanks anyway.
I never said "Quality can't be any good under filesize X", but surely, you must agree that 4GB for a movie that's like 30GB on the disc is a little low. And I hate -minrate too, that's why I asked for the ffmpeg option, as that encodes files with a higher bitrate with the same settings. And encoding to a higher bitrate DOES look better, although you should know where to quit. As we say in Dutch: "Overdrijven is ook een vak". I also agree on -minrate not being the way to go and lowering the CRF would be better.
But I also compared the 4GB file with both my 13GB HalfSBS-rip and the original BD, and saw the difference clearly with my own eyes each time.
Of course, I agree that giving more bitrate (if you do it correctly) is important for optimum quality. But honestly, I don't think that the 30 or 40 GB of most commercial BDs is really necessary. It seems that it's mainly for commercial reasons that the commercial movies are encoded that way (and perhaps also to somewhat prevent the illegal copies on expensive double-layer BDs). However, I must agree that a high quality is necessary if you have a very big screen. Anyway, it's up to you. You can easily enough change the CRF. I have just used the default value in my program, because I really think it's a good compromise between quality and file size, and I needed a good starting point, so why not use the default chosen by the developers ? But I agree that usually, I lower it a bit, around CRF 20 or even 18 for some movies with particularly good and precise images. I keep CRF 23 for less important things, like a making of. So, I really think that 4 GB is enough for most animated movies (because the images are extremely easy to compress), but certainly not enough for a long live movie. It's why I like particularly the CRF encoding mode. It adapts itself to the video content, and you have often the good surprise that it doesn't require much bitrate to preserve a decent quality.
Please contact me by PM when you will have a draft ready. I'll verify it before the final layout.
And yeah, CRF is the best encoding mode.
I'll give you a PM soon. I also expect conversations to go more fluent in Dutch. Are you from Flanders or Wallonia?
I already wrote some steps. I'm making a PDF file with linked chapters. Thinking of making a "Full tutorial version" and a "Troubleshooter version".
RajaSteve, Donald Graft is developing a new BD demuxer, called DGDemux. He has just released the first alpha version here. It is certainly not really useable yet, but perhaps you could test it, and see if it solves the problem of the missing subtitles. I will also check if it does the job correctly for 3D-BDs. And later, perhaps I'll replace the current demuxing based on tsMuxeR in BD3D2MK3D. Don't expect it rapidly, as I want a stable demuxer, but DG is working really fast, so his demuxer could be useable relatively rapidly. And if you find a bug, please report it at the DG forum.
Well, it's the very first alpha version, and if all testers are reporting a good overall impression, they agree that much work must still be done. It is simply impossible to do such a complex work without little bugs in 2 or 3 days. AFAIK, DGIndexNV is not a demuxer, and although it can be a good basis, it is certainly not trivial to convert it to do a complete demuxer.
Myself, I have no personal opinion yet, as I have not tested it, but I know that I need something totally stable for BD3D2MK3D, and not still under heavy development.
Also, currently, the options are very basic. There is no way, for example, to demux only some audio or subtitle streams. Although not absolutely necessary, it will be better to not write useless big files on disc. According to DG , the command line will be completed later. Another good reason to wait.
So, I can't say that it is not usable, but I really think that nobody (including the author) can say that it is fully usable for sure. It's why I would like to know if the subtitles of your "difficult" 3D-BDs are correctly demuxed. If it's not the case, I will certainly not do the work to adapt BD3D2MK3D to use it, as the current solution works already well, and I will modify it only if it solves the current problems, without adding new ones.
So wrong and clueless! I'm going to explicitly exclude usage by BD3D2MK3D in the license.
BTW, nobody cares about 3D. She's dead, Jim.
Last edited by veresov; 6th Nov 2019 at 15:43.
Honestly, I don't understand.
Is it because I have written "I really think that nobody (including the author) can say that it is fully usable for sure" ? You wrote in your forum that you want testers for your alpha release. By definition, an alpha release is potentially unstable. It is therefore normal to wait for a fully tested version before including it with a mature program, no ?
Sorry for the offence. That was not my intention, and perhaps I used wrong words only because English is not my native language.
Please accept my apologies and reconsider your decision.
To be honest, I haven't paid attention to the author of the post before my reply, and I replied to RajaSteve. It's why I wrote "I would like to know if the subtitles of your "difficult" 3D-BDs are correctly demuxed". Obviously, that was not to deny the quality of your work. But this thread is about missing subtitles in some BDs (demuxed by tsMuxeR) and I just wanted to be sure that your demuxer has not the same problem. That could indicate a problem in the BD rather than a software bug. I'm just trying to help and fix a problem in BD3D2MK3D and certainly not to upset you. Sorry again.
And do you seriously expect me to base my opinion based on someone else's through a random article written on the internet? Ain't that some wisdom...
You sound really hatefull BTW, man. And trust me, that means a lot coming from me. I have pretty severe anger issues... Are you sure you're not just having a bad day?
I could understand if you don't wan't your tool to be implemented in another tool, but it wouldn't hurt you to state your point a little kinder, now would it? Explicitly forbidding it in your licence seems pretty childish to me. (Again, I'm usually not one to talk here. I'm pretty childish too)
Besides, I think what r0lZ meant by "usable" is that it's not a fully-tested and stable release, so it's "unusable" for BD3D2MK3D in the sense that it isn't finished yet. If you are offended by someone calling your software incomplete, you might want to consider not calling your releases "alpha", as that heavily implies untested/unfinished software. Why hate on the guy so much? Besides, on r0lZ's defense, his tool actually does something no other tool can. Same can't be said about your little demuxer.
Anyways, let's stay kind, on-topic, and informative. Internet is full of hatred enough already.
About the "difficult" Blu-Rays:
First of all, the ones that only ripped the first 60 or so lines all seem to be caused by a bad rip, causing BD3D2MK3D to fail during demuxing, which is why 3D-planes, video, and audio aren't fully demuxed either. I re-ripped the same BD's (from the very same copies too) the right way, and this time they were all good. Haven't tested the muxed results yet, but will do that asap. But I'm 99.99% sure it will work, as I got no errors about the AVC and MVC having a different number of frames, like I did before, and the temp XML+PNG folder seems to contain all the subtitles now. I still need to re-rip 1 "difficult" BD to see if the right eye being the AVC is supposed to be like that or was also a bad rip thing. Will try to test it all before sunday.
I also tried 2 Asian 3D BD's: The Thai Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F and a Chinese Battle Royale. I think the latter one is fan-made, considering some things I'll mention later (got the iso from a friend of mine), but I can confirm the Dragon Ball was ripped from the real thing.
There was one issue both of them had: Fixed depth for all subtitles. The Dragon Ball had a fixed depth of 2 or 3, depending on the stream, and Battle Royale had a fixed depth of 14. Yes, 14, so 28 in the 2D Temp XML. Yeah, insane, right? In addition, Battle Royale's font was also hideous (a grey verdana thin, set pretty big). Dragon Ball had the same font Manga UK uses for their 2D BD. (And the same subs, as one line differs in the USA BD, as well as the font). But we knew that one was an official release, and both movies don't have that impressive 3D to begin with, so the fixed depth might not be a problem in the case of Dragon Ball. Will verify that soon.
Battle Royale had some more problems, tho. It also has a weird problems with some dark tints looking really weird, I think the right eye was the AVC again, and when you put the disc in, the very first screen you get shows a logo with words like "Rips" and "Remuxes" appearing under it. My friend who got me this iso claims it's from an untouched source, but I suspect he's either lying or being misinformed himself. You shouldn't expect to see the word "Remuxes" when you load up an official release, right? So I suspect Battle Royale to be a very bad remux, which would explain the other problems.
Either way, one thing's for sure: Asian releases don't care about subtitle depths that much.
I don't want to discuss the death of the 3D, but I see that BD3D2MK3D is still much used and appreciated. And personally, I love animation, and almost all CG animated movies are still released in 3D, and that's sufficient to motive me to continue to develop and maintain my program.
Also, DG, I don't understand this rapid change in your opinion about me. You have kindly accepted to develop the MVC decoder for me, and I am grateful for that. I appreciate your work and you know that. Is it really because I don't want to use a first alpha release in my program that your opinion about me has so changed ? I can't understand that, and I hope that you will at least explain why you are upset.
Anyway, back to the original subject of this thread.
Anyway, your precisions confirm that tsMuxer works well, and that BD3D2MK3D was not responsible of your bad experiences. Thanks for the precisions.
Maybe it's better if this topic gets a lock.
The original question was answered, and I'm in the process of writing a tutorial to be included in the next BD3D2MK3D release covering everything you need to know, so everything else is kinda off-topic right now, and should belong elsewhere.
That being said, let's all chill the F out. Nobody's forcing anyone to watch/support 3D. Don't like it, don't watch it. But please don't hate on people who do.
I agree, although I would like to know the motivations of DG. Honestly, I really think that there is NOTHING in my posts above that justifies his decision. Anyway, he can contact me by PM if he wish.
End of story.
MakeMKV, you can go to File --> Open files. Then browse to your BD folder structure (on harddrive), open it's BDMV folder and select the "index.bdmv". It will open up the list screen just as if you would hit the diskdrive icon when a disc is loaded.
To be complete, with a physical DVD/BD disk loaded or an ISO mounted, MakeMKV can also do a full disc backup in BD folderstructure by going to File --> Back-up. In the screen that follows next, you can set whether or not you want to decrypt the videos (normally you want to UNcheck that) and set destination folder. The SSIF folder will be present in the STREAM folder in case of a 3D BD.
I understand a second pass is necessery then, yes.
For me personally I don't mind doing some extra work. As I always want to create a movie only 3DBD ISO, I don't use BD3D2MK3D for creating a 3D mkv. I manually demux & mux everything.
Main reason is because with every movie (not only 3D) I run into, I want (if not forced...) to edit the existing SUPs and/or add selfmade ones. Then your awesome Subtitle tools come into play. Couldn't do without them. It's great to be able to check which 3D plane is most compatible to asign my SUPs to in tsMuxer.
And the positions cloning tool is nothing less than a feast. Without this (after a lot of work, finally having my desired subtitles), I'd be drowned before ever having seen the waters. Imagine manually editing subtitle positions...
Keep up the good work!
Edit: RajaSteve, I didn't see your last post till I posted my last, sorry. If not for me, it's maybe handy for those how don't know yet how to do it. Thanks anyways, though.
Last edited by Ennio; 8th Nov 2019 at 18:06.
Thanks for your kind words, Ennio. It's yet another motivation to continue to work on BD3D2MK3D, even if only some of its tools are used by knowledgeable users like you.
BTW, in the past, I have planned to write a new tool that merges together several 3D-Planes to remove the gaps (the frames with 0x80 aka "not defined" depth values). I have abandoned that idea, because IMO it is probably not really useful to most users, but if you want it, or anything similar, just let me know. For example, another thing that may be useful would be to compare a precise XML/PNG subtitle stream with all 3D-Planes in a folder, and display a "score" for each 3D-Plane, telling how many subtitles have no depth values, the minimum and maximum depths used, and things like that. There is already a similar report when you actually create a 3D stream with a specific 3D-Plane, but that tool will let you analyze all 3D-Planes at once, without having to convert any stream. Useful ?
Immediate questions emerge too. I have to check whether these questions are valid - or if I maybe could answer them myself - by reading back on some subjects and bells & whistles regarding 3D and the way I work.
Thank you for calling me a "knowledgeable user". Maybe a bit to much credit for me, now.
In general, I do like to think that I understand each handle & step in my (somewhat more laborious) workflow in creating a 3D-BD iso that will fly my kite. But, as I'm sure you can recall, it's been quite a while since I really dug in and anchored on your tools and 3D in general. Remembering the big efforts and amounts of time & patience you invested into "teaching" people how all this stuff works (not only here at VH), the least I can do is reading back on the knowledge I gathered in time. Not before I've done so can I react properly on your suggestions. Maybe other ideas will pop-up too.
I want to keep it short since it's not my intention to interfere to much in OP's thread.
So, I'll definately be back. And YES, THERE WILL BE QUESTIONS!
OK, you are welcome. However, I suggest to post your suggestions in the BD3D2MK3D thread at Doom9. This thread has been polluted and is already too long and somewhat OT.
I apologized for perhaps unintentionally hurting his susceptibility, and I did my best not to make things worse. I certainly cannot do more, especially without knowing the causes of his extremist reaction. I asked him several times (in this thread and by PM) to explain to me what he blames me for, and I gave him a lot of time to answer me. He has not had the intellectual honesty to explain himself. I therefore conclude that his anathema has no other reason than his chaotic psychology.
On the other hand, a prohibition to sell (or in this case to offer something freeware) to a particular person or group of persons is called discrimination, a serious crime formally defended and heavily punished by law (at least here in Europe - I am not sure for the USA of the other Donald.)
I don't want someone's mood swings to have an impact on the community of the video enthusiasts, on the users of my programs and on myself. So I have every reason, psychological and legal, to refuse his diktat. Therefore, I will continue to distribute DGMVCDecode with BD3D2MK3D, and if it turns out that I absolutely need DGdemux for this or another project, I will use it.
This is the last time I will speak on this subject. I will not answer DG, unless he changes his attitude radically. And if someone asks me for explanations on the bizarre exclusion clause of one of his licenses, he will simply be redirected here, where he will be able to realize the absurdity of DG's decision.
This puts an end to this story. Thank you to all those who supported me.
You brought up DGDemux first in this thread and then proceeded to slag it off (the very first alpha!) in a superior condescending manner. You chose DG as the target of your petty strawman nonsense. And you said DGIndexNV is not a demuxer, ignoring its demux dialog and the years I have spent refining it. Wrong and clueless! Now you start calling me crazy and claiming you will violate my licensing terms. You're exposed as no friend of DG (even after what I have done for you). So ungrateful! Reap what you sow.
Have it your way!
I have revised my DGMVCSource license to explicitly exclude BD3D2MK3D.
DGMVCSource may not be used by, or integrated into, the application
known as BD3D2MK3D. License for use in any form is specifically
denied for BD3D2MK3D.
I expect you to remove DGMVCSource from your distribution package. Failure to do so will result in legal action.
I have also reported you to the forum administrators for your personal insults.
Last edited by veresov; 14th Nov 2019 at 14:22.