Analog video especially home videos are really bad to begin with, Capturing in the most lossless way doesn't mean improving the quality of the video, It just means to stay as close as possible to the source's quality, In addition if someone wants to do editing or video restoration it is better to do it from a non lossy raw footage. Not from DV, MPEG2, MPEG4 or any lossy compression scheme for that matter (in other words two wrongs doesn't make right)
DV is not the most friendly in 2019, It use to be, But not anymore. With the majority of the market is PC not Mac and the majority of PC market is laptops, all in ones and tablets getting an ancient DV device to work now is as problematic as getting a USB capture device to work on Windows 10.
That's what the "anal folks" trying to explain to you.
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As I stated in a prior post upscale HI-8 or VHS to 1080 and let us see the image quality. Do a demonstration video so people can see the process and decide if it is worth the time and effort. I am asking for a simple demonstration. In any other discussion forum several people would have done it by now. -
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You
DV converters are not magic boxes.
- You can setup software wrong, hence get wrong aspect ratio, etc.
- 4:1:1 is already arguably bad quality, losing 50%+ of the color data.
- DV boxes can lose sync, all capture cards can. (That "audio lock" is pure marketing that is nonsensical jabberwocky technobabble. "Audio lock" is indeed a jargon term, and existing in the realm of DV, but it means something completely different than what Canopus claims. I've written on this many times, and at least one VH post from the past 3 years extensively explained this, search for it, read it.)
People bought VHS camcorders from Best Buy dude not Betacams. They are not worried about the highest quality are they? A lot of people just want to upload to social media or burn to DVD to share with friends and family.
You claim to be a professional yet I have asked you several times for a simple image or a video of your equipment. You have refused. I should not need to ask for pictures or videos of your equipment. You should have an image of your editing suite an image of you storefront on your website as well as an image of yourself but you don't. Seems a little shady to me. Are you operating out of your basement? I obviously don't give the same credibility that others do. I doubt you ever had the equipment to capture 3/4" or Betacam tapes but you could prove me wrong. Have you ever done anything for broadcast?
youNot mentioned is also how much of a PITA DV is in 2019, since Firewire is a legacy connection (that was never really popular, I might add). If you have to build a legacy system for video, then DV is not the best option. If you insist on using a modern computer, especially a laptop, DV is probably not an option at all. There are ways to add Firewire to some modern/recent desktops, but the driver/software half of the equation is sometimes still a PITA.
youDV (MiniDV, DV25) is not, and has never been, used for broadcast. Yes, perhaps a low-budged infomercial or commercial used it, but who here is wanting "infomercial quality" on anything? And that's not really want I'd consider "broadcast", since those are paid spots. Broadcasters would probably run a test pattern for an hour, if paid handsomely for it.
YouUpscaling SD to HD is not the best quality. The deinterlace alone poses issues and challenges. -
DV is not the most friendly in 2019, It use to be, But not anymore. With the majority of the market is PC not Mac and the majority of PC market is laptops, all in ones and tablets getting an ancient DV device to work now is as problematic as getting a USB capture device to work on Windows 10.
That's what the "anal folks" trying to explain to you. -
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That's where you're wrong, People who want that they just go pay someone to do it for them. People who come here they want to learn to do it in the best way possible and your duty if you claim you're knowledgeable is to show them options. But instead you want everyone to believe that DV is the best because it's easy, That's how you're wrong.
Last edited by dellsam34; 30th Mar 2019 at 13:27. Reason: irrelevant
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Such a childish attitude --- and I've already shown where many of your statements are false. For example:
PCI and PCIE IEEE Fire Wire cards require no driver.
You are admitting Mini DV-25 has been used for commercial and infomercial because I told you that.
if it is good enough for ... then DV-25 cannot be all that bad.
Have you been asked to do that?
Why would you have to de-interlace if they want the final product on Blu-ray?Last edited by lordsmurf; 30th Mar 2019 at 15:55.
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I think there is major confusion in these forums right now. I never said the DV codec is the best because it is easy to use. There is a big difference between a DV converter (which is hardware) and the DV-25 video codec. I am not suggesting people use the DV codec if they want the best quality. If you have a USB device h.264 would be a better option for some people but other people might want uncompressed depending on the task at hand.
Having said that a lot of people in these foums have simply asked for help and also asked what device will work. Not everyone is asking for the best possible quality that money can buy. Some have even said they don't need the best quality. The anal people here then insist their method must be used and insist the Canopus ADVC 110 is a horrible product. If someone wanted to capture VHS or HI-8 and make a DVD the DV converts will work just fine for that.
I have asked everyone to stop with the strawman arguments but they keep coming. Why is that?
The only argument moving forward is to disprove that DV converters are not reliable or demonstrate that DV converters are hard to use. Can anyone do that?
If DV converters a reliable (not hit or miss) have decent quality and are easy to use then why are we still arguing? The DV converters have worked just fine for a lot of people. -
me
PCI and PCIE IEEE Fire Wire cards require no driver.Nonsense.
meYou are admitting Mini DV-25 has been used for commercial and infomercial because I told you that.You told me nothing. You kept saying "broadcast", but broadcast to most people isn't the crap (that almost nobody watches) in the wee hours of the morning. That's off-peak paid programming. Not really "broadcast".
meif it is good enough for ... then DV-25 cannot be all that bad.My cat likes cat food. If it's good enough for her, then it's good enough for me? Really? That's the logic here? In actuality, perhaps she doesn't have high expectations, maybe even a limited taste palette. See the analogy? Yes, DV is the cat food of video.
If you thought your analogy was good that says a lot about your thought process. Perhaps you will be man enough to admit the analogy you thought was so good was in fact very horrible.
meHave you been asked to do that?Yes, many times, and after explaining to the person why it's a terrible idea, they opt for SD conversion of the SD material.
meWhy would you have to de-interlace if they want the final product on Blu-ray?Statement like that prove to me that your video knowledge is limited. BD supports SD MPEG @ 15mbps, and looks quite excellent -
No. DV is not good for DVD, IF DVD is the target capture MPEG-2 with PCI or USB. You are doing double butcher that way.
Previewing the work has no effect on the quality of the video, The quality of the capture hardware what determines the quality of the capture, Having a monitor is not really a big deal. If the monitor is hiding the defects that means you are not seeing what you are capturing.Last edited by dellsam34; 30th Mar 2019 at 19:29. Reason: Added info
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I think you are confused. I am not talking about using a broadcast monitor for capturing video although it does not hurt if the client is in the room. I am also not suggestion having an external monitor will improve the quality of the video capture card. Using a broadcast complaint monitor while editing is a big deal especially when editing interlaced video with motion graphics. Interlaced video never looks that great on a computer monitor and motion graphics are even worse. Having said that what defects would be hidden during capture or playback using a broadcast compliant monitor? If your goal is to output to DVD or playback over the airwaves using the computer monitor is not the best option. DV-25 works just fine for editing and outputting to DVD. MPEG-2 can work as well as H.264. MJPEG DV-50, Pro Res etc.
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Your lack of video knowledge makes you use the word "Just fine" a lot. Professionals -if you claim to being one- don't use that term at all, and most importantly they never do convert analog video to DV and convert it again to DVD. You seem to enjoy arguing, I don't. so goodbye.
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I have used my ADVC 110, DAC-100 and and ADS AV Pyro Link many times to convert analogue tapes to DV-25 (edit the tape) and then burn a DVD for the client. When I burn to DVD the peoples hair actually looks like hair not rabbit fur. Having said that people can decide for themselves if my information is correct or not but millions of people have edit DV video and then later burned it to a DVD. I will say taking a Mini DV camera and simply transferring the digital tape to the computer using the Fire Wire port will have a very clean image. It is best to just edit those DV video clips as is and then burn it to DVD. There would be no need to take the analogue S-Video out from a DV cam and connect it to a USB capture card. DV cameras do not need a capture card. That is why they were so convenient. They also had much better quality than VHS or Hi-8. DV to DVD just works.
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Last edited by lordsmurf; 31st Mar 2019 at 13:36.
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I agree. The camera is important. Hi-8 can look better than DV-25 if you compare a $2,800.00 Hi-8 camcorder with a quality lens, gen-lock, XLR and BNC connectors to a $500.00 DV camcorder from Best Buy. If you compare a $2,800.00 dollar DV camera with a $2,800.00 Hi-8 camera both will look good on a SD monitor but the DV camera will have higher resolution and not require a capture card. If you had to output to Blu-ray at 1080i the high-end DV camera will have an advantage.
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