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  1. Member
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    Not sure how to put this but these larger capacity disks, as opposed to the smaller Verbatim AZO 4.7 GB disk, seem to create a better "burn"..., free from skipping, pausing and freezing. Although the size I need for data fit's on the smaller capacity disk, I have found using the larger capacity disk seems to correct these issues.

    Usually, when we ship our training films (roughly 250 disks) we have had reports that some of them fail in some way or another and find that we must replace the defective disks. However, since we have been using the larger capacity disks, we've had NO complaints after this last shipment when we used the larger capacity disk.

    I was hoping someone on this forum can provide an explanation so that I can learn..., or at least a guess.
    catricric
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    Why not run one of thos cd/dvd speed programs suggested earlier, so you can have some evidence for bad burn/bad disk ?
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    Oh no, I tried all of the ones suggested, VSO took nearly 3 hours to complete (way, way too long for it to be practical) and the final report was a pass, which couldn't be the case because I used it on a disk that I knew was "bad" one that kept skipping back to the beginning at the 12:36 mark.

    Do you have an opinion or suggestion about my most recent (last post)? Since I now have to buy the larger capacity disk at triple the price, I'd really like to know...
    catricric
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    Verbatim is now using very similar packaging for their 4.7 GB DVD AZO media and their cheap 4.7 GB DVD "Life Series" media. Are you sure that you didn't receive the wrong Verbatim product? Their 4.7 GB DVD-R AZO media has the MID code MCC 03RG20 (ImgBurn in "Discovery Mode" can provide the MID in the box on the right side of the window.)
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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    Also, not sure what the VSO actually test, but this Nero test takes about 10 minutes, gives a "quality score" extrapolated from the PI errors and failures.
    As usually_quiet inferred, the MID is important as a kind of "barometer" of quality; you can look them up here at videohelp.com to see what users
    have reported.
    This disk I tested was recorded in 2010 on budget JVC-branded DVD's, the mid shows Ritek F1 and this burn scored surprisingly well,
    it's still good after almost 10 years
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    These are the disk I have ALWAYS purchased through Amazon:
    [ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YJXMS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ]

    Here's the info from imgBurn:

    HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GE24NU40 1.00 (USB)
    Current Profile: DVD+R

    Disc Information:
    Status: Empty
    State of Last Session: Empty
    Erasable: No
    Free Sectors: 2,295,104
    Free Space: 4,700,372,992 bytes
    Free Time: 510:03:29 (MM:SS:FF)
    Next Writable Address: 0
    MID: MCC-004-00
    Supported Write Speeds: 8x, 16x, 24x

    Physical Format Information (ADIP):
    Disc ID: MCC-004-00
    Book Type: DVD+R
    Part Version: 1
    catricric
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    These are the disk I have ALWAYS purchased through Amazon:
    [ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YJXMS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ]

    Here's the info from imgBurn:

    HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GE24NU40 1.00 (USB)
    Current Profile: DVD+R

    Disc Information:
    Status: Empty
    State of Last Session: Empty
    Erasable: No
    Free Sectors: 2,295,104
    Free Space: 4,700,372,992 bytes
    Free Time: 510:03:29 (MM:SS:FF)
    Next Writable Address: 0
    MID: MCC-004-00
    Supported Write Speeds: 8x, 16x, 24x

    Physical Format Information (ADIP):
    Disc ID: MCC-004-00
    Book Type: DVD+R
    Part Version: 1
    I had to guess whether you were using DVD+R or DVD-R, so the MID I posted was for DVD-R media, which is slightly more popular than DVD+R media. MCC-004-00 is the correct MID for Verbatim 4.7GB DVD+R 16x AZO media.

    [Edit]The only other thing I can think of is the write speed used. 8x is usually recommended here for 16x 4.7 GB DVD media to ensure optimum readability. Burning above 16x would definitely not be recommended, although it would save time when someone needs to produce many DVDs.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 13th Mar 2019 at 16:53.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    Not sure how to put this but these larger capacity disks, as opposed to the smaller Verbatim AZO 4.7 GB disk, seem to create a better "burn"..., free from skipping, pausing and freezing. Although the size I need for data fit's on the smaller capacity disk, I have found using the larger capacity disk seems to correct these issues.

    Usually, when we ship our training films (roughly 250 disks) we have had reports that some of them fail in some way or another and find that we must replace the defective disks. However, since we have been using the larger capacity disks, we've had NO complaints after this last shipment when we used the larger capacity disk.

    I was hoping someone on this forum can provide an explanation so that I can learn..., or at least a guess.
    the skipping, pausing and freezing are usually the result of either
    poor media or burning too fast. try slowing down the burn speed to 4x.
    here's something else to try - start imgburn - click tools - settings - write - page 1 - check "preform OPC before write"
    OPC is sent to the drive before the actual burn stage, so that possible problems with your media/burner/firmware combination can be spotted before wasting a disc with a failed burn.
    Last edited by october262; 13th Mar 2019 at 18:17.
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    I'll try your latest suggestion (ImgBurn) stated in your last message and report back today. The media I use is always the best and my burn speed is always 1X for just those reasons. Also I like to express my sincere thanks for all of your help.
    catricric
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  10. Burn speed of 1X is actually a very bad idea. Most media will not give you good results at these speeds.

    You clearly did NOT use the Nero CD/DVD speed test because, as already pointed out, that test takes about 7-10 minutes if done at 8x for a 4.7 GB disc. You do need a Lite-On or other drive that is capable of running the test. Not all DVD drives can do it.

    Best practice for getting high-quality burns is to burn at rated speed or, if you suspect your drive may have vibration problems (common for older drives) go down one speed, e.g., for 8x media go to 6x.

    Dual layer discs do not produce better burns; they produce worse burns. You can find hundreds of posts in this forum about people who have had compatibility problems when they duplicate DL discs and send them out to a lot of people.

    I suspect that your problem is either bad media (not being what is claimed), as others have already suggested, or the result of burning at a speed lower than what the media can handle.
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    Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
    Burn speed of 1X is actually a very bad idea. Most media will not give you good results at these speeds.

    You clearly did NOT use the Nero CD/DVD speed test because, as already pointed out, that test takes about 7-10 minutes if done at 8x for a 4.7 GB disc. You do need a Lite-On or other drive that is capable of running the test. Not all DVD drives can do it.

    Best practice for getting high-quality burns is to burn at rated speed or, if you suspect your drive may have vibration problems (common for older drives) go down one speed, e.g., for 8x media go to 6x.

    Dual layer discs do not produce better burns; they produce worse burns. You can find hundreds of posts in this forum about people who have had compatibility problems when they duplicate DL discs and send them out to a lot of people.

    I suspect that your problem is either bad media (not being what is claimed), as others have already suggested, or the result of burning at a speed lower than what the media can handle.
    Good point, I would suggest perhaps looking at the Nero or Imgburn log to see what actually occurred during the write.
    I've got some poorer quality media; Maxell CMC MAG-M01-00 and according to Imgburn they only support 6x, 8x, 12x & 16x for burn.
    I'm also out of luck with this ASUS burner, I have some old 1x DVD-RW that aren't supported.
    I contacted their support and after exchanging a few messages with them, they finally admitted that the firmware/device did not support
    burning at 1x at all.
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    I'll try your latest suggestion (ImgBurn) stated in your last message and report back today. The media I use is always the best and my burn speed is always 1X for just those reasons. Also I like to express my sincere thanks for all of your help.
    The drive you used for ImgBurn's Discovery Mode report doesn't support burning that media at 1x. Burning at 1x is generally not recommended anyway unless the media's rated speed is low and the drive supports 1x for that media.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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    I do not have a "Lite-On" DVD burner, I have an LG (Model GE24NU40 Mfg 2017) and I WILL download Nero to perform the test, I am grateful to all three of the monitors that have replied to my post. However, I don't really know how to respond to the "Not being what is claimed" statement by JohnMeyer..., Why would he make that statement when the technicality of my issue is vital to my success? Hope I am not irritating anyone...

    I have to assume that since the program (ImgBurn) completed with no read errors ("OPC" checkbox checked), that all is well.
    Next, I'll "test" both of the media disk I burned (4.7 GB / 8.5 GB) for skips, pauses, and freezes using the same training film (3.6 GB of data) in my Samsung and Sony DVD players on fast fwd (1x) speed.

    RESULTS:
    The Single-Layered Verbatim AZO 4.7 GB disk (whereby the 3.6 GB of data size was withing capacity) had paused 3 times but played through.
    The Double-Layered Verbatim AZO 8.5 GB disk (obviously with-in capacity) had absolutely NO issues.

    My only guess is that the double-layer provides a 'second' opportunity for the DVD "writer" to write the data in a second pass. In addition, the double-layered media disk themselves are $1.00 dollar each as opposed to the single-layered media disk for about $0.25 cents each.

    At this point, absent the NERO test, that's my best guess.
    catricric
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    By the way, we are not "duplicating" these training films, we cannot find a vendor willing to press the small quantities. We are 'burning' the training films 1 by 1 from TS_VIDEO encodes. Primarily, the whole reason for the issue we're having doing so.
    catricric
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    My only guess is that the double-layer provides a 'second' opportunity for the DVD "writer" to write the data in a second pass.
    No. Writing to double layer media is performed one layer at a time. Each layer on a double layer disc is only burned once.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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    I guess that blows my theory! Downloading NERO and will try test.
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    I guess that blows my theory! Downloading NERO and will try test.
    I hope you're not installing the whole of Nero just for the tiny utility referred to.
    It's available on this site and I have a version on my PC i can upload;
    I think my version is XP only and it requires the ASPI layer from Adaptec.

    Actually it runs in my Windows 8 system in XP compatibility mode
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    I downloaded the [ Nero11_DiscSpeed702100.exe ] but it didn't "see" my LG burner (as previously stated) needing a "Lite-On" burner which is not an option for me.
    My computer platform is a Windows 64 8.1 machine.
    catricric
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    Try this version, remember to put it in XP compatibilty mode
    Is your LG burner USB external, or regular internal sata attatched ?
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    Last edited by davexnet; 14th Mar 2019 at 14:01.
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    Thanks for the file..., I was able to install the file in XP compatibility, but as you can see from my attachment that my 'external' DVD drive was 'not available' from inside of the program. https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48386&stc=1&d=1552594913
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    catricric
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    Try it on another PC with a regular internal drive
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    Other than 3 computers in the front, It's just this computer..., I going to try to get the internal drive to work or replaced. Thanks for all your help!!!
    catricric
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    Try a different burner/burners. Since burning a disc requires more power, the burning capability/quality of a drive begins to fail long before the playback shows signs of failure.
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    Totally agree, exactly why I purchased a new external LG DVD burner last year. On the previous burner, I noticed a slight increase in vibration and decided to buy the one I presently have now. But other than that, how do you know "when" to buy a new drive if it hasn't visually failed yet? Is there a limit...? I burn 5-10 training films a day during the week.
    Most of this thread has been about trying to discover how bad media happens via surface and content testing utilities and what can be done to prevent it. Could there be an application that exclusively tests your burner?
    catricric
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    Totally agree, exactly why I purchased a new external LG DVD burner last year. On the previous burner, I noticed a slight increase in vibration and decided to buy the one I presently have now. But other than that, how do you know "when" to buy a new drive if it hasn't visually failed yet? Is there a limit...? I burn 5-10 training films a day during the week.
    Most of this thread has been about trying to discover how bad media happens via surface and content testing utilities and what can be done to prevent it. Could there be an application that exclusively tests your burner?
    I don't think so, it can usually be inferred by it's symptoms. Having a second PC and/or burner to switch to is very helpful,
    because, by a process of elimination, you can point the finger at something
    For example, my previous burner, an NEC model I had used heavily for more that 10 years, started to have read problems
    on dvd-rw disks I'd made previously, in some cases many years ago. Or it would get a verify error on a disk just burned.
    I made sure to change the interface cable, but it didn't affect the problem

    Has the media gone bad or is it the device? By using a second device, it could read those old disks,
    I decided to retire the NEC and get a new burner from Newegg (~ $20) - no more problems
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    Always use Imgburn (as you've done) as this eliminates the software an issue.

    Set Imgburn to verify the disc after burning and post the Imgburn log (Help>Imgburn logs) as this may show issues that occurred during the burning process.

    Look at the burned side of the disc. The burned area should be a smooth consistent color throughout. If there's banding, it may be a sign that the laser is struggling to complete the burn.

    Try a different drive. Based on your usage, it may be nearing the end of its burning life. There's no set number of discs a drive will burn successfully, but since the lasers in the drive weaken over time, bad burns will increase or time. Writing to a DL disc may use a different writing strategy than a SL disc and that's way it doesn't have the errors.

    How are you testing the discs? On the same drive as you burned them on or a standalone player? Does the disc skip in different players at the same place? Standalone players are more forgiving of disc errors than PC drives. What type of issues are the customers reporting? Is it skipping like you experienced or is it other issues? There will always be a certain percentage of compatibility issues with burned discs.

    Did this drive always have problems? Or is it something that's happened over time?

    Edit: As recommended, burn at 8x (preferred) or set Imgburn to Auto (which will determine the best speed for the burn).

    Try switching to DVD-R discs. This is largely a non-issue now, but some older standalone players have difficulty playing back DVD+R
    Last edited by lingyi; 15th Mar 2019 at 12:24.
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    Moving forward, I will use ImgBurn as my primary burning software and ditch "CloneDVD" despite the "All-in-One" attributes of the program. For reasons, you and others have pointed out. Upon examination of some of the disks I have burned, I have noticed "Banding" and thought that was a normal occurrence, not realizing the laser was struggling.

    As far as "writing strategies" I didn't know there were any "strategies" between single and double layered disk but my results don't lie, problems that I've had with pausing, skipping and freezing just haven't duplicated (using the same content data) on a DL disk..., Go figure.

    If I suspect a bad burn or the DVD has been returned for replacement, I'll first use VLC to playback the DVD on my computer to see if the media freezes or pauses as stated by our employees from other states using the training films. I'll also use the DVD player that's wired to a Television to see if the problem duplicates. Secondly, I'll run the DVD player at double the speed (since I don't have the time to watch the whole training films 1 x 1). If there's skipping, freezing or pausing it's usually at the same place which has been verified from our returns.

    Most if not all of the reported problems are skipping back to the beginning, freezing or several pauses and then eventually playing through. This problem has been always there, sometimes with less frequency, despite whether the DVD burner is new. I will take your recommendation for the "Auto" setting and buy the -R Disks.

    By the way, your questions/information was great!
    catricric
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  28. A point of clarification: verifying and testing with Nero DVD Speed are two totally and completely different things.

    Here's why.

    All discs contain thousands of errors, but these errors are corrected during the read process by using redundant bits that are added during burning. Without these redundant bits, your single-layer disc would hold another gigabyte (approximately). The "verify" process simply makes sure that all the data (video or actual data) can be retrieved from the disc even if much of that data has to be reconstructed from the error-correction bits.

    By contrast, DVD Speed actually looks at the raw data coming from the disc (which is why it requires a DVD drive that can provide this raw information) and determines how many times the error correction bits are needed. A perfect burn (which I don't think is possible) would require zero corrections. Most burns have several hundred.

    What you don't want are "uncorrectable errors," although some burns will have these. And, you don't want too many correctable errors. If you have too many of these uncorrectable errors, some playback devices (PC, set top DVD player, etc.) may not be able to keep up and will have freezing, where other, better players won't show any problem.

    Here are two forums where you can learn a LOT more about how to get good burns and how to measure quality:

    Digital Video Forums

    MyCE
    Last edited by johnmeyer; 15th Mar 2019 at 14:12. Reason: typos
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    Originally Posted by catricric View Post
    Totally agree, exactly why I purchased a new external LG DVD burner last year.
    If that's a "slim" drive, there are widespread issues with slim drives.
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    I know there many manufacturers that produce them, but I would never use a "Slim" drive.
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