lines at top of screen.

[jimmydonc]

can anyone tell me.. because I can't find this specific issue online anywhere. Are these white fading lines/dotted lines when i connect up analog video a copy protection thing? If so is there a device to remove them?
I'm not even actually trying to copy anything. I just have a DVD player I'm trying to connect to a late 70s television through a converter box that converts composite RCA to coaxial screws on the back of the TV... because I'm a nerd and I like watching old TV on an actual old television set.

[redwudz]

Older TVs commonly don't show overscan 'noise' on the screen. LCD TVs can, or you may be able to adjust the overscan with the TV settings.

Just from your description of the lines, sounds like closed caption information or similar.
You could crop them out or place a black bar over them in a video editor and re-encode the video also.

To be more definitive, you can post a short clip of the original video here and it would be a lot easier for members to comment or suggest a solution.

And welcome to our forums.

[KarMa]

fading lines/dotted lines

Sounds like it might be CC Subtitles.

[jimmydonc]

looks like my image link didn' work. trying again

[jimmydonc]

weird. trying another way. maybe you can click on this link? http://angryjim.com/storage/IMG_5953.JPG
here's another: http://angryjim.com/storage/IMG_5952.JPG

those lines slowly fade in and out throughout the video.

you can see here what I'm trying to do.. http://angryjim.com/storage/IMG_5955.JPG
watch a bunch of different media on an old late 70s television. The TV works great. (the photo looks worse than it does in real life) the lines don't show up with the nintendo or even the ROKU i have hooked up to it. only the VHS and DVD... and i think only certain videos.. which makes me think it's a copy protection thing? Because the TV is so old it only has the two screws in the back for an antenna.. Maybe something about the RCA composite to coaxial(vhf antenna really) converter I'm using.. but again, it only happens with the VHS and DVD.

[jagabo]

The white bar at the top of the screen is closed captions (and other digital data transmitted with some sources). Your TV needs adjustment to move the picture up a little bit -- so you can't see it. That control isn't usually available to the user. You'll have to remove the cover and find the internal controls (up/down, left/right, width, height). Or throw the TV away and get another.

[jimmydonc]

ha! Well I'm not throwing it out. The little bit at the top of the frame doesnt bug me. (in fact that image of the roku screen saver was to show that it works sometimes just fine). look at the other two images, it's those rows of dashed lines I'm asking about..

[aedipuss]

looks like more than one problem. the black bar at the top and the weird shrinkage at the sides of the picture are probably the magnet in the crt getting weak. the white lines that go 1/4 down the picture are something else.

[jimmydonc]

yeah the white lines are all I care about. that's what I'm asking about. I get that the TV is aging. it's over 40 years old. But I dont get those white lines from the NES or the ROKU. It must not be from the TV itself. I've seen those white lines on other televisions in the past. that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. I feel like it's a really common thing and was surprised I couldn't find info online about it..

[jimmydonc]

These are the lines I'm talking about. They only happen with DVD or VHS playback. And not all videos. that's why my guess is copy protection.. and my question is if there is a way to eliminate them.

[Attachment 48364 - Click to enlarge]

[jagabo]

These are the lines I'm talking about. They only happen with DVD or VHS playback. And not all videos. that's why my guess is copy protection.. and my question is if there is a way to eliminate them.

[Attachment 48364 - Click to enlarge]

They should appear only one time at the very top of the screen. I'm not sure why they are repeating on your TV. I suspect the vertical position of the picture is too high and you are getting reflections off the top of the tube. Your TV needs adjustments as noted earlier. Not all videos display the problem because not all videos (and not all sources) include closed captions.

[jimmydonc]

so next question.. assuming this has to do with the subtitles or other data at the edge of the frame (right?) would a video stabilizer like the RXII remove that?

[jagabo]

Because that are is also where Macrovision resides (in part). Stabilizers cover it with black.

[jimmydonc]

Thank you! Short term I'm going to try that stabilizer and see if that works. Long term, I'm gonna find a service manual for this TV. I may be getting in over my head with that, but It's a sentimental family television and it would be cool to fix it up.

[dellsam34]

CRT TV's are prone to surrounding interference, I would remove every electronic component around the TV and see if it makes a difference, If not you will be more than happy with an LCD monitor with A/V inputs, It will make your VHS tapes look way smoother and you save some money on your electric bill.

[jagabo]

Why don't you just adjust the TV?

Thinking about it more, those might be Macrovision. Here's a frame from a youtube video (10:29) that shows Macrovision and CC with a TV that's not properly sync'd (twiddle with the vertical hold knob) so you can see the vertical blanking period between fields:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VqsU1VK3mU

[Attachment 48366 - Click to enlarge]

The thicker black/white lines are Macrovision, the thin white lines just below them is the digital CC signal. A stabilizer may remove both.

What you're seeing may be the macrovision signal reflecting off the top edge of the tube. If they slowly brighten and darken (maybe that is why you described them as "fading", see the video) rather than flicker quicky they're macrovison.

[jimmydonc]

I think it must be something in the macrovision reflecting down. If I get that stabilizer and it works that will pretty much confirm it. Obviously the tube needs some adjustment too.. none of the front facing controls (it does have a manual vertical hold knob) seem to fix it, so I'll probably have to open it up if I really wanna get it working properly.. But I don't know if I'm up for that task, so my first attempt will be with that stabilizer... even if that doesnt totally fix the screen in general.

as far as getting an LCD, that sorta defeats the purpose. This is a sentimental thing for me. I have another modern TV. I just like watching VHS and playing nintendo and Atari on the one that's been in my family since the 70s. Even if it isn't the highest fidelity. ha.

[aedipuss]

if there are adjustment holes in the back of the tv, you HAVE to use plastic screwdrivers to get to the pots. there is a LOT of voltage back there...

[jimmydonc]

well, I opened up the TV and found a peg that turned to control the vertical scale. so that's fixed. No such luck for horizontal but that doesn't bug me. In any case those lines appear even when the data bar at the top is completely cropped out.

As I said before I'm getting a stabilizer and when that comes, we'll see if that gets rid of the lines...
[Attachment 48371 - Click to enlarge]

[darkknight145]

It's actually a fault on the TV, it's suffering from vertical foldover, so info in the vertical interval area will show on the screen, you will not always see it, it depends on the video you are watching. An old school tech would/should be able to fix it fairly easily. The simplest way would be to replace all the caps in the vertical stage, but you would need a service manual so you know which ones to replace.

[jimmydonc]

An old school tech would/should be able to fix it fairly easily.

Oh man, I bet that might be hard to track down. i bet most of the local ones who repaired CRTs have retired by now, and it's not exactly the type of thing you can ship off for repairs easily. ha. I did open it up to make those minor adjustments to the vetical position.. you should have seen the dust in there. 40 years worth. it was like a quarter inch thick!

[jimmydonc]

well I got that box (in my case i found a used model of “the clarifier” from facet video on ebay). It totally worked to get rid of the lines. The video plays perfectly. Although i did notice something a bit odd: the menu screen for my video player rolls... I guess that doesn't matter at all since it stops rolling when the actual VHS or DVD starts playing. I don't care about watching or capturing the menu screen. ha.

[jimmydonc]

apparently i dont understand how to upload video clips to this forum.. the above links try to download automatically instead of playing on my computer. Not a huge deal but if you wanna see what i mean by the rolling menu screen.

[jimmydonc]

how does one add [SOLVED] to the top of the thread?