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  1. Member
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    Good Evening,

    I'm responsible for delivering video to cable and network stations at work. Have been doing it for years without issue. We just picked up a new cable station as a client, and they have an ancient broadcast system of some type. Complicating the issue further, no-one who works there understands it at all. These were the initial specs I was given:


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv5mu5tzcx4mvch/specs.JPG?dl=0

    Easy enough, I thought. I delivered within those specs. However, their ops manager says the file is unrecognized by the system. He sends me a sample older file that does work in the system. This is the media info:

    Duration : 13 min 47 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 3 750 kb/s
    FileExtension_Invalid : ts m2t m2s m4t m4s tmf ts tp trp ty

    Video
    ID : 481 (0x1E1)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings : CustomMatrix / BVOP
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Custom
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Format settings, picture st : Frame
    Codec ID : 2
    Duration : 13 min 47 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 3 371 kb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 3 250 kb/s
    Width : 528 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Top Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.444
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    Stream size : 332 MiB (90%)

    Audio
    ID : 482 (0x1E2)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Codec ID : 129
    Duration : 13 min 47 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Stream size : 18.9 MiB (5%)
    Language : English
    Service kind : Complete Main

    I'm trying everything I can think of to match those exact specs. I'm using MediaCoder right now, as it seems to still work well with these older MPEG-2 TS settings. This is as close as I've gotten:

    General
    ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : MPEG-TS
    File size : 223 MiB
    Duration : 8 min 20 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 3 745 kb/s
    FileExtension_Invalid : ts m2t m2s m4t m4s tmf ts tp trp ty

    Video
    ID : 256 (0x100)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings : BVOP
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=2, N=14
    Format settings, picture st : Frame
    Codec ID : 2
    Duration : 8 min 20 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 3 366 kb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 3 250 kb/s
    Width : 528 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Top Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.443
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    GOP, Open/Closed : Open
    GOP, Open/Closed of first f : Closed
    Stream size : 201 MiB (90%)

    Audio
    ID : 257 (0x101)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Codec ID : 129
    Duration : 8 min 20 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -5 ms
    Stream size : 11.5 MiB (5%)
    Service kind : Complete Main

    Menu
    ID : 4096 (0x1000)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Duration : 8 min 20 s
    List : 256 (0x100) (MPEG Video) / 257 (0x101) (AC-3)
    Service name : Service01
    Service provider : FFmpeg
    Service type : digital television

    I've worked on this for three days and I'm stuck. If anyone out there has experience with MPEG-2 TS, I'd really appreciate your advice. Especially regarding how to manually set the PID, and how I can pull the custom matrix out of the older file to use it for my conversions.

    Thank you for any help you can offer.

    - Walter
    Last edited by WWK764; 5th Mar 2019 at 22:35. Reason: Edited for grammar
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  2. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    vs
    Format settings, GOP : M=2, N=14

    This is probably important. I believe M stands for the number of P frames in a GOP and N stands for the number of B frames. So I would start there with trying to match those. I'd also try to get that Menu info out of there, if it's not in the sample.

    Menu
    ID : 4096 (0x1000)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Duration : 8 min 20 s
    List : 256 (0x100) (MPEG Video) / 257 (0x101) (AC-3)
    Service name : Service01
    Service provider : FFmpeg
    Service type : digital television
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  3. Member
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    Originally Posted by WWK764 View Post
    We just picked up a new cable station as a client, and they have an ancient broadcast system of some type.
    I have a feeling this is key. What system is it? You are on a wild goose chase trying to emulate the other file, especially with stats reported by MediaInfo, which is sometimes quite very wrong.
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  4. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    The fact they use "Format settings, Matrix : Custom" is also concerning and might be an issue over your Matrix: Default.
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    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    vs
    Format settings, GOP : M=2, N=14

    This is probably important. I believe M stands for the number of P frames in a GOP and N stands for the number of B frames. So I would start there with trying to match those. I'd also try to get that Menu info out of there, if it's not in the sample.
    I have been able to correct this. Excellent point.

    Menu
    ID : 4096 (0x1000)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Duration : 8 min 20 s
    List : 256 (0x100) (MPEG Video) / 257 (0x101) (AC-3)
    Service name : Service01
    Service provider : FFmpeg
    Service type : digital television
    I hadn't even thought that this might be the problem. It seems to be present no matter what I do in MediaCoder when I have the container set as MPEG TS. Does anyone familiar with MediaCoder know where this can be disabled?

    Thank you for your help, KarMA.
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    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Originally Posted by WWK764 View Post
    We just picked up a new cable station as a client, and they have an ancient broadcast system of some type.
    I have a feeling this is key. What system is it? You are on a wild goose chase trying to emulate the other file, especially with stats reported by MediaInfo, which is sometimes quite very wrong.
    Great thought. I called the ops center. They have a Telvue Hypercaster B-1000. I pulled the manual. There isn't much in there about format:

    The HyperCaster supports playback of MPEG-*‐2 Transport Streams with MPEG-*‐2 or H.264 Video Codecs, and MPEG-*‐1 Layer II, AC-*‐3, AAC, MP3 Audio Codecs. Through its integrated Transmux feature, the HyperCaster can additionally import MPEG-*‐2 Program Streams and DVDs, as well as MP4/AVI/MOV files with the H.264 Video Codec. The HyperCaster will quickly transmux (re-*‐multiplex) these other formats to Transport Stream on import, leaving the original video encoding intact so there is no loss of quality. The TelVue HyperCaster® transmits compressed content over UDP packets. Content must be already multiplexed into an MPEG-*‐2 Transport Stream.As of version 4.0 the TelVue HyperCaster software supports variable mux rate Transport Streams, however other equipment in your setup may not, so you may need to investigate whether your full playout chain can support variable mux rate content.In many Cable and IPTV environments, transport streams often must have a constant multiplex rate (note however that does not mean the video elementary stream must have a constant bit rate) and must be uniform across all encoding properties on files and streams played out. The downstream equipment receiving these streams can and often will have more stringent requirements. TelVue servers can aid with these downstream requirements by changing Program ID values as the MPEG-*‐2 TS is transmitted. However, other requirements, such as bit rate, frame rate, profile and level, GOP structure, and more, must be set at the time of file creation orby transcoding or multiplexing.When playing from a HyperCaster to the TelVue ProVue IP Broadcast Decoder, source file and stream encoding is much more flexible. Your schedule can mix and match MPEG-*‐2 and H.264 video files, HD and SD, and the ProVue handles all transitions seamlessly and will automatically up and down-*‐convert as needed based on its output settings. The TelVue ProVue decoder also support integrated, on-*‐air graphics including Tickers, Bugs, and Snipe overlays. The TelVue ProVue is great companion to the HyperCaster in environments where you need baseband output, or require downstream graphics and branding.
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    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    The fact they use "Format settings, Matrix : Custom" is also concerning and might be an issue over your Matrix: Default.
    I feel the same way. Since I have a file with the custom matrix, is there any way to rip it? I've never had to do anything like it before, so I don't know and Google searches are turning up nothing so far.
    Last edited by WWK764; 5th Mar 2019 at 22:36. Reason: Edited for grammar.
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    I know that FFmpeg has options for specifying intra and inter matrix coefficients. But how to extract them from the file? I wonder if something like this tool could help.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Yours is showing as VBR (at the container level, not elementary stream level), and open GOP, while reference is CBR and (unspecified) but very likely closed GOP.
    Both also important.

    I remember the old TMPGEnc encoder (mpg1 & mpg2, but only ss & ps, not ts) used to be able to read & export custom matrix profiles (for later re-import), but the format they used could have been their own. Not sure if that'll help or not.

    Scott
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    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    I know that FFmpeg has options for specifying intra and inter matrix coefficients. But how to extract them from the file? I wonder if something like this tool could help.
    Thank you for this suggestion, JV. I have messaged the author of the program asking whether their tool could help with this problem.
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Yours is showing as VBR (at the container level, not elementary stream level), and open GOP, while reference is CBR and (unspecified) but very likely closed GOP.
    Both also important.
    I was able to correct to CBR, but all I can manage for the GOP so far is "GOP, Open/Closed: Open" "GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed." Anyone familiar with media encoder know where I can close the GOP completely in FFMPEG settings?

    I remember the old TMPGEnc encoder (mpg1 & mpg2, but only ss & ps, not ts) used to be able to read & export custom matrix profiles (for later re-import), but the format they used could have been their own. Not sure if that'll help or not.
    I've downloaded it to check it out. I'll try anything at this point. Thank you, Scott!
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  12. Originally Posted by WWK764 View Post
    Since I have a file with the customer matrix, is there any way to rip it?
    It's a simple matter to get the matrices used. Open a video file in DGIndex. Go Options->Log Quant Matrices. Then File-Save Project. You'll get a D2V project file you can toss unless you want to use AviSynth as your frameserver, and the text file with the matrices inside.

    Of the encoders with which I'm familiar, both CCE and HC Enc allow you to set up custom matrices. I think you can in ffmpeg as well, but I've never used it.

    Both CCE and HC Enc also allow for setting Open or Closed GOP.
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  13. QuantDump can also extract the matrix. You can download from here (scroll down the page)
    http://rationalqm.us/mine.html

    I have some doubts though that the matrix is the issue. Can you upload a sample of the critical file so someone may have a look?


    Than "Menu" gets appended by ffmpeg. Apparently MediaCoder is an ffmpeg frontend.
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  14. Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    I have some doubts though that the matrix is the issue
    I was thinking the same, but didn't write it. And I doubt it's an unusual matrix, maybe just not one of the two or three most common ones.
    Last edited by manono; 6th Mar 2019 at 01:39.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by WWK764 View Post
    Since I have a file with the customer matrix, is there any way to rip it?
    It's a simple matter to get the matrices used. Open a video file in DGIndex. Go Options->Log Quant Matrices. Then File-Save Project. You'll get a D2V project file you can toss unless you want to use AviSynth as your frameserver, and the text file with the matrices inside.

    Of the encoders with which I'm familiar, both CCE and HC Enc allow you to set up custom matrices. I think you can in ffmpeg as well, but I've never used it.

    Both CCE and HC Enc also allow for setting Open or Closed GOP.
    Thank you for this, Manono. I was able to get working video files to the cable company last night, but I never want to get stuck like that again. So I'm going to continue to take these notes and familiarize myself with the software you good folks have brought to my attention.
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    QuantDump can also extract the matrix. You can download from here (scroll down the page)
    http://rationalqm.us/mine.html

    I have some doubts though that the matrix is the issue. Can you upload a sample of the critical file so someone may have a look?


    Than "Menu" gets appended by ffmpeg. Apparently MediaCoder is an ffmpeg frontend.
    I appreciate this, Sharc. I did get the heat off last night by getting sufficient files to the client, and I thank all of you folks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I was truly stuck.

    I tried to cut a sample, but I'm at home currently, only have Premier available, and couldn't edit the file because of the Dolby track. I did put the whole file on DropBox. It's 370MB, and I understand if that's too much of a hassle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pt87x2gjwfc1np/Sample.mpg?dl=0 (If Adobe did still work normally with Dolby, perhaps my editors could have just exported the right format via Encoder, avoiding all of this.)
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  17. Member
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    I have some doubts though that the matrix is the issue
    I as thinking the same, but didn't write it. And I doubt it's an unusual matrix, maybe just not one of the two or three most common ones.
    Your instincts are confirmed. I never did sort out the exact custom matrix, so at least I can proceed knowing it's not a deal-breaker for this broadcast system in the future.
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    I was really flustered with this last night, and the members of this board were fantastic. My sincerest thanks to all of you who took the time to share your knowledge and expertise. I wish I could buy you all beers. Thank you again, and be well.
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    Glad to hear you are un-stuck. All we ask in return is that you share: what was the fix?
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  20. Thank you for this, Manono. I was able to get working video files to the cable company last night, but I never want to get stuck like that again. So I'm going to continue to take these notes and familiarize myself with the software you good folks have brought to my attention.
    Hi there, How did you insert the custom matrix into VideoCoder?
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