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  1. Hey

    I ripped my Dragon Box (Dragon Ball Z) collection a while ago and I want preserve the grain as much as possible, but I'm not sure which tune to use, if at all. "Animation" removes too much grain. "None", "Film" and "Grain" work better, though, "Grain" seems to enhance the grain than preserve it and doesn't look right to me.

    It's not your typical anime source, but it's also not real footage with grain either, so I'm not really sure which one to use.
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  2. you prefer grain picture instead clear one ?
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    Make sure psy_rd is at least 1. That will affect grain preservation the most. I’ve seen some DB encodes push it to 1.15, but that seems like overkill.
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  4. Originally Posted by SaurusX View Post
    Make sure psy_rd is at least 1. That will affect grain preservation the most. I’ve seen some DB encodes push it to 1.15, but that seems like overkill.
    Thanks.

    Ah, "None", "Grain" and "Film" all have psy_rd set to 1. But which one would you recommend for grainy anime sources, like the Dragon Box collection?
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    If you’re looking for a tune to use I would just go with “film”. I know there’s an “animation” tune, but that uses several assumptions about the source video that are not true in this case.
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  6. --preset slow
    --tune film
    --aq-strength 1.8 or so.

    Keep in mind that retaining grain is very expensive in terms of bitrate.
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  7. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    --preset slow
    --tune film
    --aq-strength 1.8 or so.

    Keep in mind that retaining grain is very expensive in terms of bitrate.
    Haha, yeah, I have done a few encodes with ABR at 1000 kbps and ABR at 2000 kbps (so that I can compare the impact of the x264 tunes at the same bitrate), and it's clear that not even Grain or Film can preserve enough grain with ABR at 1000 kbps. No free lunch!

    And thanks, Film with aq-strength at 1.8 got very close to the source in terms of grain. If aq-strength is important for retaining grain, why is it set low in the "Grain" tune?

    Should I leave psy_rd and psy_trellis at their defaults for Film?
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  8. You can go even higher with aq-strength to retain even more grain. I found 1.8 was enough to prevent posterization in some difficult shots I was working with.
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  9. Originally Posted by TheNeverhood View Post
    Film with aq-strength at 1.8 got very close to the source in terms of grain. If aq-strength is important for retaining grain, why is it set low in the "Grain" tune?

    Should I leave psy_rd and psy_trellis at their defaults for Film?

    aq-strength is lowered with grain preset because it redistributes bits from edges . If you don't encode with adequate bitrate , you will get halos of reduced grain around object edges, and frame edges, instead of a more uniform distribution. It's ugly and one of the major side effects of AQ with grain (or any type of noise ). On cleaner animation sources, AQ still takes away from edges, so the drawn lines become less clear (that's why it's also reduced with animation preset). But higher bitrates trump everything. If you used crf, AQ will actually increase bitrate everywhere, but still disproportionally redistributes from edges to flat, darker areas . But if you're using 2pass, or 1pass ABR, it still redistributes in the same manner, but instead of the bitrate ballooning up, you will get those ugly artifacts when you restrict to insufficient bitrate ranges

    Grain retention requires some psy_rd, psy_trellis. You can start with the film or grain defaults . But you might have to tweak the values to get exactly what you want.

    Look for areas of spotchy grain too . That's usually the first indication that you're not using enough bitrate.
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  10. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by TheNeverhood View Post
    Film with aq-strength at 1.8 got very close to the source in terms of grain. If aq-strength is important for retaining grain, why is it set low in the "Grain" tune?

    Should I leave psy_rd and psy_trellis at their defaults for Film?

    aq-strength is lowered with grain preset because it redistributes bits from edges . If you don't encode with adequate bitrate , you will get halos of reduced grain around object edges, and frame edges, instead of a more uniform distribution. It's ugly and one of the major side effects of AQ with grain (or any type of noise ). On cleaner animation sources, AQ still takes away from edges, so the drawn lines become less clear (that's why it's also reduced with animation preset). But higher bitrates trump everything. If you used crf, AQ will actually increase bitrate everywhere, but still disproportionally redistributes from edges to flat, darker areas . But if you're using 2pass, or 1pass ABR, it still redistributes in the same manner, but instead of the bitrate ballooning up, you will get those ugly artifacts when you restrict to insufficient bitrate ranges

    Grain retention requires some psy_rd, psy_trellis. You can start with the film or grain defaults . But you might have to tweak the values to get exactly what you want.

    Look for areas of spotchy grain too . That's usually the first indication that you're not using enough bitrate.
    Thanks for explaining this stuff to me

    If you don't mind having a look, I have done a few encodes with ABR at 1500kbps:

    ABR1500 Film: https://files.videohelp.com/u/246075/ABR1500%20Film.mkv

    ABR1500 Grain: https://files.videohelp.com/u/246075/ABR1500%20Grain.mkv

    ABR1500 Film (aq_strength=1.8): https://files.videohelp.com/u/246075/ABR1500%20Film%20AQ_1.8.mkv

    Source: https://files.videohelp.com/u/246075/Source.mkv


    At 1000 kbps, the grain looks a bit splotchy, but at 1500 kbps it looks okay to me. Just wondering what you guys think
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