Question about DNR, TBC, and Analog Detailers

[DiggyDre]

I am looking around online for other things to add to my setup. So far I am working with my Panasonic AG-1970 and a Pinnacle 500-USB.
I have been looking on ebay for units that can help as an external TBC, a DNR, and a Detailer, so that I can route them together before they even hit the capture card, the only thing is, I am not having much luck finding stuff that has the S-Video connector on them.
I was hoping that someone here my point me in the right direction.

[Eric-jan]

Your Panasonic AG-1970 has already a "TBC" so you can use it also as passthrough..... but you still have dropped frames ? maybe your storage HDD is not fast enough,(data transfer rate) and need to replace them with SSD's ? or maybe use a compressing codec to capture with, to have fast data transfer rate.
Try that first...
Btw... you don't mention what's wrong with your current setup, what do you mean with "route them together" you only need to capture, later you do all the fancy stuff in post on your PC.....

[DiggyDre]

I have a 3TB hard drive with a quad-core 4.2Ghz AMD processor, 16GB of ram, and a GTX-1070 (8GB) for my video card. I have seen some people talk about having another TBC as a line TBC as well as the one in the VCR. They should work differently because there are different types of TBC. I want to route that into something analog, like a video processing amp of some kind that can handle noise and detail before it gets to the computer. The more stuff that you can fix in the analog world, the less stuff you have to fix in the digital world, and I have seen a few people work with a video processing detailer and it just blew my mind because they were able to get the noise out of a VHS and then bring back some of that detail. I am aware that in the digital relm, there are plug-ins, like Neat Video, but I also feel like they wash away some of the detail, even though Neat Video has a sharpening feature, I feel that a lot of these plug-ins are more geared for todays modern digital video files that are in HD.

[JVRaines]

The best noise reduction is built into the VCR itself because it is designed for and integrated into the deck's own playback electronics. Otherwise, I would leave NR and detailing to software because it is reversible and you can try out different things.

[DiggyDre]

The best noise reduction is built into the VCR itself because it is designed for and integrated into the deck's own playback electronics. Otherwise, I would leave NR and detailing to software because it is reversible and you can try out different things.

Yeah the NR in the AG-1970 is okay. It does smooth out the picture somewhat, but I am also working with some really old tapes from the 80's and 90's. The TBC actually works WONDERS for these old tapes but the NR isn't so great. I hear that the AG-1980 had a better NR system in it. I wonder if I would like the NR systems the JVC's have? I think they are called Digipure. I almost wonder if it would be worth it to sell the AG-1970 and upgrade to a JVC.

[lingyi]

Read lordsmurf's article at digitalfaq.com about what's needed in a capturing workflow http://www.digitalfaq.com/editorials/digital-video/professional-analog-workflow.htm#more-3391 and PM him as he may have or be willing to sell you what you need.

He's one of the most respected and trusted members here.

[DiggyDre]

Read lordsmurf's article at digitalfaq.com about what's needed in a capturing workflow http://www.digitalfaq.com/editorials/digital-video/professional-analog-workflow.htm#more-3391 and PM him as he may have or be willing to sell you what you need.

He's one of the most respected and trusted members here.

Okay... Thank you

[JVRaines]

I wonder if I would like the NR systems the JVC's have? I think they are called Digipure.

I had such a deck. The NR was very good with decent tapes and pretty stunning with SVHS. It was not so good with ratty old tapes and neither was the time stabilization. I frequently had to turn it off in such circumstances and rely on an outboard TBC.

[dellsam34]

JVC HR-S#### series have decent picture processing on them, Take a look at Lordsmurf’s VCR guide over at digitalfaq.

[lordsmurf]

Your Panasonic AG-1970 has already a "TBC" so you can use it also as passthrough.....

That is not correct. A VCR does not act as passthrough.

you only need to capture, later you do all the fancy stuff in post on your PC.....

This is also not necessarily correct, as some tasks can ONLY be done when the signal is still analog. Once its digitized, the error is burned in forever.

It was not so good with ratty old tapes and neither was the time stabilization. I frequently had to turn it off in such circumstances and rely on an outboard TBC.

Though very uncommon, it can happen. I see such an issue maybe a few times per year, at most. It generally only happens with nth gen tapes, meaning it's a copy of a copy, meaning the errors are semi-burned in. That's where video restoration gets fun, and the rulebook is often tossed out. I've seen 2-head POS VCRs play tapes better than pro AG decks, but again that's a rare instance.

I have been looking on ebay for units

That rarely ends well. All those "working" and "tested" items are usually NOT working correctly, and NOT truly tested. I especially like the weasel terms like "pulled from working environment" (translation = "no clue if it works"). It's gotten to the point where it's a weekly barrage of horror stories. Just today, somebody was telling me how he bought 6 dud VCRs that were advertised as tested/working, trying to find a good one. Of the "best" 2 of the 6 decks, 1 will need a complete re-cap job ($300+), and the other is passable at SP only playback. The more complex the gear (detailers, TBCs, proc amps, etc), the worse it gets. So be prepared to waste your time, possibly lose some money, and walking away from the site with nothing to show for it. The good gear is out there, just not necessarily on that specific site.

(Ugh ... I sound like Orsetto again, the friendly VH curmudgeon. )

[DiggyDre]

Your Panasonic AG-1970 has already a "TBC" so you can use it also as passthrough.....

That is not correct. A VCR does not act as passthrough.

you only need to capture, later you do all the fancy stuff in post on your PC.....

This is also not necessarily correct, as some tasks can ONLY be done when the signal is still analog. Once its digitized, the error is burned in forever.

It was not so good with ratty old tapes and neither was the time stabilization. I frequently had to turn it off in such circumstances and rely on an outboard TBC.

Though very uncommon, it can happen. I see such an issue maybe a few times per year, at most. It generally only happens with nth gen tapes, meaning it's a copy of a copy, meaning the errors are semi-burned in. That's where video restoration gets fun, and the rulebook is often tossed out. I've seen 2-head POS VCRs play tapes better than pro AG decks, but again that's a rare instance.

I have been looking on ebay for units

That rarely ends well. All those "working" and "tested" items are usually NOT working correctly, and NOT truly tested. I especially like the weasel terms like "pulled from working environment" (translation = "no clue if it works"). It's gotten to the point where it's a weekly barrage of horror stories. Just today, somebody was telling me how he bought 6 dud VCRs that were advertised as tested/working, trying to find a good one. Of the "best" 2 of the 6 decks, 1 will need a complete re-cap job ($300+), and the other is passable at SP only playback. The more complex the gear (detailers, TBCs, proc amps, etc), the worse it gets. So be prepared to waste your time, possibly lose some money, and walking away from the site with nothing to show for it. The good gear is out there, just not necessarily on that specific site.

(Ugh ... I sound like Orsetto again, the friendly VH curmudgeon. )

"pulled from working environment" = LOL. I saw a AG-1980 just about 2 weeks ago on Ebay being sold by a tech school. They had in the listing "pulled from working environment" and it kinda looked ratty and had a sticker with some writing on the front panel of it. The price was tempting but I figured if it was bad, I didn't want to spend even more money replacing heads or having a re-cap job done so I left it in it's tracks. I actually got lucky and found my AG-1970 on Craigslist. The guy only wanted $50 and it works GREAT! The NR in too subtle on that model though. I really wouldn't mind getting my hands on some more external gear though.