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  1. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Hi folks, I'm trying to make compliant files from m2ts files (originated from Blu-ray) for D-VHS tape recording, The converter has to do the following:
    - Convert from m2ts variable bitrate to MPEG-2 ts constant bitrate
    - Convert from progressive to 1080 interlaced
    - Down convert DTS HD master and Dolby true HD to DTS 5.1 and AC-3 5.1

    So far I tried videoredo suite 5 and Tsmuxer none of them worked, Videoredo doesn't recognize hi res audio tracks and Tsmuxer gives up with a lot of errors.
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  2. ffmpeg perhaps? It was at least few times mentioned in terms of all requested functionality...
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  3. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I have but one question.

    Why ?
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  4. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I have but one question.

    Why ?
    Re read the original post.
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  5. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I have but one question.

    Why ?
    Re read the original post.
    I read the post. I have even re-read it (just in case it was edited). Does not answer the question why you should want to do this. Kinda makes little sense except as an experiment.
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  6. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I have but one question.

    Why ?
    Re read the original post.
    I read the post. I have even re-read it (just in case it was edited). Does not answer the question why you should want to do this. Kinda makes little sense except as an experiment.
    I said I needed to record to D-VHS tape, What more is relevant to the question you need to know?
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    You have an HD m2ts from a BluRay that's progressive? That means the m2ts isn't 29.97fps and it's not 25fps. If it's progressive 1080 BluRay it has to be either 23.976 or 24 fps. If you re-encode it to MPEG2, that doesn't mean it's "D-VHS" or even "DVD" -- it just means it's re-encoded MPEG2, which can also be used for BluRay. The DVD spec has GOP and other requirements that don't match up with BluRay structure. And if the source is progressive BluRay compliant to begin with and you interlace it, you cut the frame rate in half. And a lot of other things can get in your way. Maybe you're talking about 720p BluRay?

    Can't advise you, cap. You have to give more info about the source. "HD" covers a lot of territory, and so do "BluRay" and "DVD".

    And to echo DB83: Why?
    Last edited by LMotlow; 1st Jan 2019 at 15:16.
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  8. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    You have an HD m2ts from a BluRay that's progressive? That means the m2ts isn't 29.97fps and it's not 25fps. If it's progressive 1080 BluRay it has to be either 23.976 or 24 fps. If you re-encode it to MPEG2, that doesn't mean it's "DVD" -- it just means it's re-encoded MPEG2, which can also be used for BluRay. The DVD spec has GOP and other requirements that don't match up with BluRay structure. And if the source is progressive BluRay compliant to begin with and you interlace it, you cut the frame rate in half. And a lot of other things can get in your way. Maybe you're talking about 720p BluRay?

    Can't advise you, cap. You have to give more info about the source. "HD" covers a lot of territory, and so do "BluRay" and "DVD".

    And to echo DB83: Why?
    All what I have known about D-VHS is it is 1080i, Did D-VHS movies came in 24p? I don't know. The HD broadcast came in different variations 480i, 720p, 1080i don't know about D-VHS movies, I'm only interested in the 1080 part and trying to get the m2ts compliant with D-VHS MPEG-2 standards.
    I already explained why in my original post.
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    FFmpeg decodes HD audio in later versions and can handle every aspect of this conversion unless the input video has some weird frame rate.
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  10. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    FFmpeg decodes HD audio in later versions and can handle every aspect of this conversion unless the input video has some weird frame rate.
    Not a big fan of scripting unless someone shows me how, The last time I used something like this was after capturing an analog video and I already forgot all about it.
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    So why don't you play the source video in a BluRay player and record it to a D-VHS recorder with tape in it? Why are you using software to re-encode a digital video to MPEG-2? What are you going to do with the MPEG-2 video?
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  12. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    So why you just play it in a BluRay player and record it to a D-VHS recorder with tape in it?
    The D-VHS deck has only firewire input, It has S-Video and composite for analog SD sources. So yeah the only way to record HD to it is thru computer using DVHSTool via firewire port.
    Those tools from back in the day such as CapDVHS and DVHSTool don't have advanced error messaging system, So if the file is in different format they just refuse to transfer it and stop, and if it is the right format and not complaint they record it but the playback is corrupted and full of green/red/blue random blocks and audio stuttering.
    MPEG-2 is the only type of file a D-VHS can record.
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  13. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Here is how a compliant file look like, Don't know why mediainfo showing variable bitrate though, It should be constant 30Mbps. But this file has been recorded and played back fine from the D-VHS deck:

    HTML Code:
    General
    ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : MPEG-TS
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 12.1 Mb/s
    Law rating                               : R
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 17 (0x11)
    Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : MPEG Video
    Format version                           : Version 2
    Format profile                           : Main@High
    Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
    Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
    Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
    Codec ID                                 : 2
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Bit rate                                 : 11.1 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate                         : 30.0 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
    Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Standard                                 : Component
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.179
    Color primaries                          : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 20 (0x14)
    Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : AC-3
    Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
    Codec ID                                 : 129
    Duration                                 : 15 min 0 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 384 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
    Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Bit depth                                : 16 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 41.2 MiB (3%)
    Language                                 : English
    Service kind                             : Complete Main
    
    Text #1
    ID                                       : 17 (0x11)-CC1
    Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : EIA-608
    Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
    Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
    Duration                                 : 15 min 0 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
    CaptionServiceName                       : CC1
    
    Text #2
    ID                                       : 17 (0x11)-CC3
    Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : EIA-608
    Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
    Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
    Duration                                 : 15 min 0 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
    CaptionServiceName                       : CC3
    
    Text #3
    ID                                       : 17 (0x11)-1
    Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : EIA-708
    Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
    Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
    Duration                                 : 15 min 0 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
    
    Text #4
    ID                                       : 17 (0x11)-2
    Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
    Format                                   : EIA-708
    Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
    Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
    Duration                                 : 15 min 0 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
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  14. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Here is how a compliant file look like, Don't know why mediainfo showing variable bitrate though, It should be constant 30Mbps.
    This quite strange requirement that TS should be CBR. I see only one issue - MPEG-2 video encoder - not sure about your preferences - some people prefer HCenc encoder, ffmpeg MPEG-2 quality encoding was significantly improved however not sure why i have impression that it is quite slow (half of libx264 speed). If i can advise then IMHO HCEnc can be better choice. Anyway ffmpeg can do job especially that bitrate up to 30Mbps sounds quite reasonable for MPEG-2 1080i.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Here is how a compliant file look like, Don't know why mediainfo showing variable bitrate though, It should be constant 30Mbps. But this file has been recorded and played back fine from the D-VHS deck:
    I don't know why you think that you need CBR. D-VHS recorders were often used to record digital cable via Firewire out from a cable box. Since 2010 I have been recording MPEG-2 transport streams as-is directly from digital cable with either a clear QAM PC TV tuner or a digital cable tuner. The MPEG-2 video that I recorded from such sources was always variable bit rate. Undoubtedly the use of VBR predates 2010.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 1st Jan 2019 at 17:38.
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  16. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ok. Chill out.

    Have a nice day !!
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  17. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Thank you guys, It was suggested few years ago at AVS forum that CBR is required, I myself couldn't get the deck to record until I put a test file into videoredo and tweaked the bitrate to get it to record, I don't know if it's really CBR or just capped CBR with maximum value, but it worked.
    In the other hand m2ts mpg and AVC won't record at all, the mpg ones have heavy pexilisation and blocking, the AVC ones come out black screen.

    HC encoder doesn't work for me I don't have such files to input to it, I only have m2ts mpg and AVC both from blu-ray.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 1st Jan 2019 at 18:22. Reason: editing needed
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  18. Video is always VBR even if coded as CBR (usually very strict CBR imply stuffing in ES) - TS is on opposite side - rarely it is VBR and most of TS's are CBR (perhaps except IPTV where this may be consider as unwanted). Commonly VBR video is encapsulated in CBR TS where stuffing is explicitly on PID 0x1fff (generally TS is designed to be easily processable on HW).

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    HC encoder doesn't work for me I don't have such files to input to it, I only have m2ts mpg and AVC both from blu-ray.
    HCenc encoder accepting Avisynth at the input and using your source with Avisynth and HCEnc should be straightforward.
    Are you able to provide information about source and target.
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  19. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    I don't think I am capable of working with script software, I just don't have the patience to learn them, I will post a sample here and see if someone can work on it and I will send the resulting file to the deck and see how it goes.

    Ok here is the source file, I don't know what do you mean by target as that's the whole purpose of this thread.
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  20. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    I don't think I am capable of working with script software, I just don't have the patience to learn them, I will post a sample here and see if someone can work on it and I will send the resulting file to the deck and see how it goes.
    Oh... i see...

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    I don't know what do you mean by target as that's the whole purpose of this thread.
    By target i mean encoded video parameters... bitrates, resolution - things like that...

    Provide model for this D-VHS recorder - it will be easier to check specification...
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  21. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    I don't think I am capable of working with script software, I just don't have the patience to learn them, I will post a sample here and see if someone can work on it and I will send the resulting file to the deck and see how it goes.
    Oh... i see...

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    I don't know what do you mean by target as that's the whole purpose of this thread.
    By target i mean encoded video parameters... bitrates, resolution - things like that...

    Provide model for this D-VHS recorder - it will be easier to check specification...
    That's the question, I don't know what the output parameters should be, D-VHS machines are all the same but if the model mean something to you it is the JVC HM-DH5U.
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  22. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    And here is the other type of file I'm dealing with, Basically Blu-ray came in two flavors of encodings, the h264 and the AVC if I'm not mistaken, I posted the AVC sample in my earlier post already.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    And here is the other type of file I'm dealing with, Basically Blu-ray came in two flavors of encodings, the h264 and the AVC if I'm not mistaken, I posted the AVC sample in my earlier post already.
    AVC (Advanced Video Coding) is another name used for H.264. The other flavors of video encoding used for regular Blu-ray are VC-1(AP@L3 and AP@L2) and MPEG-2 (MP@HL and MP@ML) but they are not used as often as H.264/AVC. UHD Blu-ray uses only H.265 (or HEVC).
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 1st Jan 2019 at 23:41. Reason: typo
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  24. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    You're right looking back to the files they are both AVC.
    So far I tried tsmuxer to down convert HD tracks to regular 5.1 so videoredo can recognize the english track and loaded the files into videoredo but I don't know the exact setting, Tried different combination of settings none played correctly with the deck so far.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    You're right looking back to the files they are both AVC.
    So far I tried tsmuxer to down convert HD tracks to regular 5.1 so videoredo can recognize the english track and loaded the files into videoredo but I don't know the exact setting, Tried different combination of settings none played correctly with the deck so far.
    I'm afraid that I can't be much help to you with audio conversions. I don't do very much of it.

    I do think you are on the right track in choosing AC3 because DS-VHS recorders could record US digital cable and ATSC broadcast TV, which use either 2-channel Dolby Digital AC-3 (for SD) or 5.1 channel Dolby Digital AC-3 (for HD) as audio.
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  26. You'd probably need to post a compliant sample that works . You need basic info like GOP size / makeup (are b-frames allowed? , how many consec?) , buffer info

    Is soft pulldown for 23.976=>29.97 supported on the machine ? Because that will give better quality at a given bitrate, and be more ideal. I'm guessing probably not
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    The only file that worked on the machine was a previous broadcast MPEG-2 TS file, I don't consider it a benchmark for testing since it is a low bitrate file, If the info I posted above about it is not enough I will be happy to link a sample.
    I think the problem is the frame rate, I read somewhere that D-VHS supported 23.976 only with the resolution 720p, My files are 1080p 23.976 fps, I havn't figured out how to change progressive to interlaced in videoredo, there is an option to change the frame rate though.
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  28. The old TMPGEnc Plus supports 30 MB/s MPEG 2 encoding. I don't think it supports TS as the container but it's easy enough to remux.
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  29. D-VHS specifying recording bitrate (total) as 28.2Mbps, around 1Mbps should be reserved for audio, PSI/SI and remaining bits for stuffing if TS must be CBR - this give us MPEG-2 with Max bitrate around 27.2Mbps.
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  30. Videoredo can't change the framerate . You need to add 3:2 pulldown, probably hard pulldown

    The easiest way would be to drop 23.976pN content onto a 29.97i timeline in a NLE, then encode as 1080i29.97 , since you don't like scripting tools . Most NLE's can encode MPEG2 in different configurations

    For DTS-MA , most people would extract the core if DTS is supported by your machine. It sounds like you have been doing this correctly in tsmuxer . If not, then you need to re-encode to AC3 5.1
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