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  1. Member
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    I am trying to build a picture of how all this works in my head, but I am stuck one simple piece I cannot seem to get straight answer for.

    If I want to make an exact copy of any Blu-ray disk which will play on any Blu-ray player, can I just make an iso and burn it? (with imdisk for example)

    I have read a ton of stuff about decrypting and what not, but I need a clear answer to this first. Thanks!
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    ImDisk isn't burning software. I don't think ImDisk can be used to create ISOs either. ImDisk seems to be virtual drive software. ImDisk allows mounting an ISO file in a virtual drive so someone can access the contents as if it were a physical disc in an real drive.

    You need ImgBurn or similar burning software to burn a Blu-ray ISO to BD-R or BD-R DL media so that it is playable with a Blu-ray player. ImgBurn also has the ability to create ISOs from Blu-ray files and folders.
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    Sorry I should specify more clearly. I do not care what the software is (i only named imdisk because I have been using it for a long time for other purposes, and I think it can both make and burn ISOs).

    The exact question I need answered is:
    Can you clone a Blu-ray disk without decrypting it first. By clone, I mean the exact process of creating an ISO from the original disk, and then burning that ISO onto another disk of appropriate size.

    Not originally part of my initial question, but your reply made me think of it. Is ImgBurn required for BD-DL? (that is the kind of disks I have). I see that with ImgBurn you can also create the ISO files with it, but when I click the button I get a warning saying something about its a protected source and the image will be messed up. That warning was initially what sparked the first question.
    Last edited by macarthskey; 19th Dec 2018 at 02:53.
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  4. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    You would have to decrypt it first. The ImgBurn warning is correct. And ImgBurn works fine for burning BD-DLs.
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    Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    You would have to decrypt it first.

    Why exactly is this? I don't understand how an exact copy would be different in the eyes of the Blu-ray player? Does some piece not get copied?
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    Originally Posted by macarthskey View Post
    Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    You would have to decrypt it first.

    Why exactly is this? I don't understand how an exact copy would be different in the eyes of the Blu-ray player? Does some piece not get copied?
    Yes. There are regions on a pressed Blu-ray disc which cannot be copied onto burned BD-R/ BD-R DL media. These regions contain decryption keys. Surely you realize that the entertainment industry deliberately makes copying discs difficult because they don't want anyone to do it.
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    At a high level I understand why, but I am curious about the actual implementation now. How can these regions be read while playing the disk, but not while copying to an ISO? I could however predict that the ability to write these special sections required expensive equipment.
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    Originally Posted by macarthskey View Post
    At a high level I understand why, but I am curious about the actual implementation now. How can these regions be read while playing the disk, but not while copying to an ISO? I could however predict that the ability to write these special sections required expensive equipment.
    Burners can definitely read from those areas on pressed media but are unable to write information to these same areas on BD-R and BD-R DL. I can't recall whether the burnable media itself doesn't include these areas, or whether the burners are simply prevented from writing there.
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    Ok thanks for the information! That is a big help. I will make sure to decrypt my disk before trying to a burn a copy.
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    A few points to make it easier for you ask for additional help and for others to understand what you're asking.

    Decrypting a disc is part of the processing of performing an 'rip' or 'ripping' a disc (Blu-Ray or VIdeo DVD). A 'rip' is an exact bit for bit copy of the original disc less the encryption and region code (restricting the playback of the discs on players not of the correct region). Despite what some may say/post, you cannot 'rip' to anything other an exact bit for bit copy of the contents of the disc with the exact same file size.

    With a few exceptions (e.g. On Demand discs), commercial Blu-Ray and Video DVDs are pressed, not burned. Which is why they're silver, no the blueish/purple of burned discs. This required highly specialized equipment and plants. I you wanted to have your videos pressed, there's a minimum number of discs you have to pay for and the requirements for your master file are very strict. Inclusion of copy protection is an additional cost which many non-U.S. disc distributors don't add (copy protection).

    The encryption keys are included in the digital masters that are used to create the image used to press the disc. Here's an overview of how the AACS (Advanced Access Content System) works (most of which goes over my head). The keys and methods of encryption are constantly changing, which is why you have to have your Blu-Ray player connected to the internet (to download/update new info) and also is why you often have to wait for ripping / decrypting software (e.g. HD DVDFab, DVD Passkey, etc), to update with the keys for new releases. As usually_quiet stated, the encryption isn't included when you burn a disc, which leads to...

    Problems with playback of Cinavia encoded discs. Some, largely limited to U.S. releases and mostly from Sony Entertainment and it's sister companies, contain Cinavia audio protection that relies on the AACS key to be on the disc. Since a burned disc doesn't have the key, your audio will stop after ~20 minutes of playback. There's currently no method of defeating the Cinavia playback issue on standalone Blu-Ray players, other than replacing the Cinavia encoded soundtrack with one that's not (usually from a foreign or DVD release of the movie/video). Despite software companies claims that this isn't what their products do, it's been proven time and again, that replacing the soundtrack is exactly how the "removal" works.
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    Thanks lingyi!

    I have a follow up question. I am trying to build a workflow up like follows: decrypt backup with makemkv --> make ISO with imgburn

    But I am stuck. When I insert a bluray disk, it always has three folders. AACS, BDMV, and CERTIFICATE. When I make a decrypted backup with makemkv however, instead of an AACS directory I get one called MAKEMKV. Inside that is an AACS and CMAP folder. I do not know what pieces to include when building the ISO.

    Also can someone recommend a program which can playback decrypted bluray ISOs? I want to make sure everything is in working order before I try to burn.

    Also In addition, after I succeed in burning a decrypted clone, I want to do some editing of the source. In want to replace the audio on three of the .m2ts streams. Can anyone recommend software for this? I need to take the other source audio and divide it into three pieces to be split amongst the three streams.
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  12. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Only sure way to defeat cinavia is to use a blu-ray player that has cinavia free firmware,my sony bdp-s380 doesn't have cinavia on it since i won't install the last firmware for it has cinavia on it.

    So your best bet is to find a similar blu-ray player or use a device that plays video from a usb or hdd.
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    Originally Posted by macarthskey View Post
    Thanks lingyi!

    I have a follow up question. I am trying to build a workflow up like follows: decrypt backup with makemkv --> make ISO with imgburn

    But I am stuck. When I insert a bluray disk, it always has three folders. AACS, BDMV, and CERTIFICATE. When I make a decrypted backup with makemkv however, instead of an AACS directory I get one called MAKEMKV. Inside that is an AACS and CMAP folder. I do not know what pieces to include when building the ISO.

    Also can someone recommend a program which can playback decrypted bluray ISOs? I want to make sure everything is in working order before I try to burn.

    Also In addition, after I succeed in burning a decrypted clone, I want to do some editing of the source. In want to replace the audio on three of the .m2ts streams. Can anyone recommend software for this? I need to take the other source audio and divide it into three pieces to be split amongst the three streams.
    Sorry, I can't be much help because I use MakeMKV for my Blu-Rays because I like having individual files rather than an .iso for which there are a limited number of software players. I'm sure someone else will be able to help you, especially with the software for editing (which I don't do any of).
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    Well it looks like I dont actually need to make an ISO first. I just cant figure out which files are important and need to be included when burning to a disk. I had intended to use the ISO only for testing purposes to "pretend" I had burned a disk to see if it worked.
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    Originally Posted by macarthskey View Post
    Well it looks like I dont actually need to make an ISO first. I just cant figure out which files are important and need to be included when burning to a disk. I had intended to use the ISO only for testing purposes to "pretend" I had burned a disk to see if it worked.
    For what it is worth, as a test last year, I mounted a Blu-ray ISO (created using MakeMKV and ImgBurn) using DVDFab Virtual Drive (you could other virtual drive software like ImDisk) and successfully played the ISO using Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra 12. I think I just used the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders for the ISO.

    There is no free software Blu-ray player that I am aware of which is reliable enough to allow you to test menu navigation with any degree of certainty. IMO a licensed player like Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra is a better choice for such tests. The licensed players are not free but have free trial offers.
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    Cool, that seems to match my other findings. I also noticed that when you use imgburn to make BR folders it only makes the BDMV and CERTIFICATE directories.

    I have also answered some of my other questions about editing. For future readers sake I have had good success with tsMuxeR and Waveshop. I used tsMuxeR to demux an audio source out of one movie file (it was an mp4) then use Waveshop to crop out the part I needed, then put it into a different m2ts with tsMuxeR.

    However this created yet another question, hopefully one with a simple answer. Which audio codecs do I need to use for a disk to play on a run of the mill Blu-ray player? Every Blu-ray I have seen has had DTS audio, but Waveshop cannot make those. I am trying to convert my AAC audio into something compatible with Blu-Ray. Will WAV or FLAC work?
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    Originally Posted by macarthskey View Post
    However this created yet another question, hopefully one with a simple answer. Which audio codecs do I need to use for a disk to play on a run of the mill Blu-ray player? Every Blu-ray I have seen has had DTS audio, but Waveshop cannot make those. I am trying to convert my AAC audio into something compatible with Blu-Ray. Will WAV or FLAC work?
    WAV (Linear PCM up to 9 channels (Max 27.648Mbit/s)) will work. FLAC is not allowed by the Blu-ray spec. You can find a list of the permitted audio types on VideoHelp's What is Ultra HD, Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD and HD DVD? page
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