Artifacts on SD capture

[stunner21]

Hi I've been digitising some old video8 tapes but have noticed some artefacts occurring which is making me hesitant about continuing until I can figure out what is causing the issue. I was originally going via premiere using pal avi capture but I wasn't sure if it was a poor deinterlace that was occurring on capture so tried via da vinci resolve using dpx frame capture but seem to get similar results. Areas of concern are around the faces and arms of the guy and girl in the video where theres just a rough edge that doesn't look quite right.

The capture is off a Sony SLV-T2000 with a line tbc and dmr-es15 frame tbc going into a blackmagic ultrastudio express via s-video bnc connections.

Any ideas at all?


[Attachment 46951 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 46952 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 46953 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks in advance

[Bernix]

Weird resolution for me 786(768 is more common)x576. Not surprised you got weird after deinterlacion. Actual resolution is much smaller, use native resolution to deinterlace.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/12518-Video8-resolution
Probably you got better results.


Bernix

[stunner21]

Original res was 720x576 upon capture, the artifacts are the same on the source prior to any export, this was just a quick preview to demonstrate the point.

[davexnet]

Please post a few seconds of your original capture file

[stunner21]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/hpHsAy52UON2SEHv4YX5KIcMmoIobtPMAH4JcyYz8UG

Hi Dave, Cineform clip attached above.

[davexnet]

What artifacts are you talking about. I can see something like aliasing on some edges
Perhaps Avisynth's Santiag filter may help.
Sit tight, there are some regulars here who are excellent at this kind of diagnosis

[Eric-jan]

Can you capture from component video output ? I have a Panasonic DMR ES35V (DVD recorder and VCR outputs over Component output) capturing from the component video output with the Intesity Shuttle and have very little noticeable artifacts, to none, for me it makes a difference, compaired to using composite or s-video, skintones are also more realistic on the component output.
btw. i capture with Media Express in ProRes422LT with VCR set to PAL in progressive and capture in 720x576p50 before importing the media in Davinci i set the project settings to 720x576p50, and don't change when asked.. in "edit" i "drag" transform, until fringed border is outside viewing area.
i "deliver" in 720x576p50 (I love Davinci Resolve for that)
Capturing this way saves a lot of work in post, or you should leave it in interlaced.
(Davinci Resolve has no de-interlace function, only the Studio version has)

[stunner21]

Sorry maybe hard to see unless on a large monitor I've highlighted a zoomed in shot to show the areas I'm talking about.
[Attachment 46958 - Click to enlarge]

[stunner21]

Afraid not, the slv-t2000 doesn't output component nor do either of my tbc's I can capture it just fine but none of the sources have this capability unfortunately.

[Bernix]

But it is on whole picture, just more noticeable on edges.


Bernix

[stunner21]

Yea whole image agreed, problem is even though I can get rid of the rest with artefact removal and deinterlacing, it isn't removing these edges from what I've managed. As I understand it the interlacing on video8s is vertical correct? Would this cause issues if the deinterlacer is trying to deal with the video as if it has horizontal lines?

[Eric-jan]

I have those artifacts on my JVC Super VHS recorder...... not on my Panasonic, try to use another vcr.
"repairing" in post will only blur, just like you set (d)nr to "on" on your vcr.
it's a sharp (line) contrast issue i also see on my JVC vcr.

[jagabo]

Turn off any sharpening or noise reduction controls in the VHS deck, ES15, and capture device. You can get much better results with software.

Avoiding it is best of course, but if you're stuck with it... Attached is a sample where it's largely cleaned without damaging the rest of the video too much. <edit> To be clear, I applied heavy noise reduction around edges, and light NR over the rest of the image. I also adjusted levels and eliminated interlacing on some frames. </edit>

You also have bad levels. Make sure the es15's levels are set to input lighter, output darker. Then adjust the capture device's proc amp to get decent black and white levels.

[Eric-jan]

The picture (the face) looks still too smooth.
this clip is normal VHS, no filters, only too stong youtube compression > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MCxqw5xM4

[LMotlow]

The picture (the face) looks still too smooth.
this clip is normal VHS, no filters, only too stong youtube compression > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MCxqw5xM4

Say,dude, do you get paid for UTube hits, or what? UTube looks like crappola, which doesn't do much for your case about expensive capture setups. Your PoopTube samples look pretty bad. Is that on purpose? Don't you know how to make and post samples in a tech forum? Ask if you don't.

[Eric-jan]

The picture (the face) looks still too smooth.
this clip is normal VHS, no filters, only too stong youtube compression > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MCxqw5xM4

Say,dude, do you get paid for UTube hits, or what? UTube looks like crappola, which doesn't do much for your case about expensive capture setups. Your PoopTube samples look pretty bad. Is that on purpose? Don't you know how to make and post samples in a tech forum? Ask if you don't.

I don't like foggy images, i like detail.
btw.. how do you know my setup ?

You were not in this thread before, are you a troll ?

[stunner21]

Right I've been playing around some more and have now got the es-15 hooked up via component output which has given a little more clarity (sorry eric-jan didn't realise the player had component), the settings on the t2000 don't seem to have any processing according to the manual on video8 only on vhs. All other processing is turned off in the chain. I have tried another newer recorded tape and looking at the comparison I can see much less issue with the picture which is making me wonder if I've started on a bad tape and the recording was originally incorrect as it was on an older video8 deck not hi8 and probably at the time was hooked up via rf if I remember right. There still seems to be some ghosting from the output port itself which is visible even when the tape is not playing so I've ordered a high quality s-video scart block to see if going out from the scart ports gives the same issues. Sample clip of my old pooch from a newer tape below.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/c8LPnKUOajKbNRDniVTkqbYB0SqdyBdsaKjcBi8AHHC

[Eric-jan]

My experience is with component, the image is sharper, no dot crawl, skin tone is better for some reason... do you now capture also in progressive ?
btw. sometimes component is only for the dvd player, but this is not the case when the optical drive is a recorder, the ES35V is a combo recorder so no composite or s-video passthrough is used, i was also surprised, "discovering" this "feature" the component connection was meant for flatscreens, i guess that's why it aslo defeats Macrovision in progressive mode.
I see the UltraStudio Express goes as far as i50fps the Intensity Shuttle gives me p50fps for PAL resolution.
I guess your advantage is minimal (but still better) because you have to "input" still through s-video/composite on the ES15 for VHS, but a DV camcorder through the front DV input should be better now.

[LMotlow]

The picture (the face) looks still too smooth.
this clip is normal VHS, no filters, only too stong youtube compression > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MCxqw5xM4

Say,dude, do you get paid for UTube hits, or what? UTube looks like crappola, which doesn't do much for your case about expensive capture setups. Your PoopTube samples look pretty bad. Is that on purpose? Don't you know how to make and post samples in a tech forum? Ask if you don't.

I don't like foggy images, i like detail.
btw.. how do you know my setup ?

You were not in this thread before, are you a troll ?

No, dude, You're the troll. Readers have been watching you for weeks.


Suit yourself, guy. It's an excellent case for not using DVD/VHS combos for capture. And you've advertised your setup on several sites. Don't you remember your own posts?
BTW, what's wrong with the woman in your sample PoopTube capture? Looks as if she has been rubbed down with olive oil. You might want to make a study of telling the difference between detail and undesirable hot-spot effects.
Whatever turns you on. Just seems self defeating practice to me. Sorry for the interruption.

[Eric-jan]

I rest my case

[Tomycooler]

Hi I've been digitising some old video8 tapes but have noticed some artefacts occurring which is making me hesitant about continuing until I can figure out what is causing the issue. I was originally going via premiere using pal avi capture but I wasn't sure if it was a poor deinterlace that was occurring on capture so tried via da vinci resolve using dpx frame capture but seem to get similar results. Areas of concern are around the faces and arms of the guy and girl in the video where theres just a rough edge that doesn't look quite right. FetLife IMVU Canva

The capture is off a Sony SLV-T2000 with a line tbc and dmr-es15 frame tbc going into a blackmagic ultrastudio express via s-video bnc connections.

Any ideas at all?


[Attachment 46951 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 46952 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 46953 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks in advance

the artifacts are the same on the source prior to any export, this was just a quick preview to demonstrate the point.

[Eric-jan]

I still think it's a typical composite/s-video artefact..... which you only can get rid off by using as few as possible passthrough of those, i see good results since i only use the component video output, from the playing vcr, even much better than s-video, when i compare that.
The flesh tone is also less red, and more natural, because you don't have to rework, other things in the picture won't be affected.
I don't know if it could be a typical video8 artefact, but maybe you should try an other video8 player, maybe using the firewire connection of a Digital8 player ?
i do know the digital conversion has some other disadvantages according to some other users... but you could try and see what it delivers....
a new capture would be needed though...

btw... the SLV-T2000 got a bad review by Lordsmurf, by way of that the video8 deck of it is no good.

[Eric-jan]

If direct work on the DV source file can't handle it, allmost nothing can without damaging other parts of the image in turn... choose your best of the less worsts.
It's the adding up of the video artefacts (interlace) with the DV compression artefact is my guess....

[stunner21]

As I've stated previously, the artifacts in the video turned out to be rf noise from the original source nothing to do with deinterlace or dv artifacts. All other sources from the same tape which were recorded by a camera display no such noise. As for the colour, this is the original grading that was done on the advert so again source colours are clean and have been compared to other captures of the same advert which confirm this. I'm upgrading my deck anyway as theres some other more difficult tapes I have to master so I'll see what the results are in comparison to the slv-t2000 just to see the differences in quality if any.