29fps or Interpret as 24 fps?

[rhandy]

Hello,

I want to achieve a cinematic look with my camera but my camera only shoots at 29.97 fps. If I just take that 29 fps footage and put it in adobe premiere and interpret it as 23.97 fps then will it be the same as if I had originally shot it at 23.97 fps?

Or should I just get a camera that actually records at 23.97 fps? If interpreting has the same affect then can I also shoot at 60 fps and just interpret that footage as 23.97 to achieve the cinematic look?

Thank

[poisondeathray]

Hello,

I want to achieve a cinematic look with my camera but my camera only shoots at 29.97 fps. If I just take that 29 fps footage and put it in adobe premiere and interpret it as 23.97 fps then will it be the same as if I had originally shot it at 23.97 fps?

Or should I just get a camera that actually records at 23.97 fps? If interpreting has the same affect then can I also shoot at 60 fps and just interpret that footage as 23.97 to achieve the cinematic look?

Thank

No; "intepreting" will just slow it down to 23.976. The same frames are kept, but it's just played back slower like slow motion . It will go out of sync and the duration will increase

Converting or conforming to 59.94 or 29.97 to 23.976 will just drop frames but keep the timing (in sync, same duration; e.g. if you drop the footage on a 23.976 timeline). But frames are not evenly divisible (not integer multiple), so motion will be choppy and non uniform. Definitely not cinematic

Shooting at 23.976 doesn't make it "cinematic" . "fps" is only a small part of "cinematic look" ; other factors such as dynamic range, framing, camera technique, shallow depth of field, grading play a large role in the "cinematic" look

[rhandy]

I understand that. I have a background in photography but am slowly moving to video. I was just wondering if 29fps will also give me the cinematic look if I get the lightning, composition, etc right

[poisondeathray]

I understand that. I have a background in photography but am slowly moving to video. I was just wondering if 29fps will also give me the cinematic look if I get the lightning, composition, etc right

29fps? Typo ?

Yes, if everything else is covered , then 24fps will give a more cinematic look than other frame rates

The natural shutter motion blur has part to do with it too . e.g. If you shot 120 fps , but took every 5th frame (120/5 =24) , the frame rate is correct (and "evenly spaced" integer multiple), but it will look completely wrong and strobing . Because normally you would use a 1/48 (or 1/50) shutter for 24p footage . 120fps is normally shot at 1/240 or faster . So if you want 24p, shoot 24p not some other rate. You can add synthetic motion blur in post production, but it's never as good as "real"

[johnmeyer]

Poisondeathray's answer is perfect. Great, cogent, informative post!

The one thing I would add is that unless you have a specific need for traditional 24 fps cadence, you can come pretty close to the that look by taking 60p and converting it to 30p, or 60i and converting it to 30p. You won't get any of the artifacts from the irregular frame drop pattern that poisondeathray describes which is needed to achieve 24p, and yet you will still get a lot of that "once removed" feel that 24p provides. The motion blur addition to mimic the different shutter angle of a film camera is a nice touch, although for many scenes it won't make much difference.

To truly achieve the "film look" requires all the other things he mentions, and he is absolutely correct that the lower frame rate is only a small piece of what it takes. If you want to get specific details of how those other things are achieved, Google "video film look" and be prepared to spend several hours soaking up all the details of the trade.

[jagabo]

30p is almost as flickery and jerky as 24p. On 60p displays it doesn't have the judder of 24p because each frame of 30p is displayed for the same amount of time (2/60 second) whereas with 24p frames alternate between displayed displayed for 2/60 second and 3/60 second.

[johnmeyer]

30p is almost as flickery and jerky as 24p. On 60p displays it doesn't have the judder of 24p because each frame of 30p is displayed for the same amount of time (2/60 second) whereas with 24p frames alternate between displayed displayed for 2/60 second and 3/60 second.

The statement for 24p is only true for older displays and older DVD players and therefore, for most people reading this, it probably no longer applies.

Most movie DVDs (and Blu-Ray) are encoded with the native 24 fps material (this has always been true since DVD was introduced in 1997). The 3:2 pulldown pattern you refer to is added by the player during playback when it sees the "pulldown flag" in the video stream. Most modern players have the ability to ignore that pulldown flag and simply pass the original 24p material to the TV display. Since virtually all modern TV sets can play any frame rate and are not constrained to the old NTSC 29.97 fps standard, they can play the 24p being fed to them.

But I most certainly agree that 30p is almost as flickery and jerky as 24p, which was my point in suggesting that the OP consider converting to 30p instead of 24p: he gets almost the same "temporal feel" as 24p, but without introducing the irregular pattern he'd get by trying to go to 24p.

[poisondeathray]

The statement for 24p is only true for older displays and older DVD players and therefore, for most people reading this, it probably no longer applies.

Most movie DVDs (and Blu-Ray) are encoded with the native 24 fps material (this has always been true since DVD was introduced in 1997). The 3:2 pulldown pattern you refer to is added by the player during playback when it sees the "pulldown flag" in the video stream. Most modern players have the ability to ignore that pulldown flag and simply pass the original 24p material to the TV display. Since virtually all modern TV sets can play any frame rate and are not constrained to the old NTSC 29.97 fps standard, they can play the 24p being fed to them.

It still applies . "Can play" is not the same thing as perfect playback

99.99% of NTSC TV's have a 60Hz refresh rate . This means the 3:2 duplicates are added by the display . 24p Blu ray doesn't have pulldown at all - it's 24pN (native) . The judder is added by the display and refresh rate .

There are some cinema display models that have a "true 24p" mode, or 24p multiples (120Hz, 240Hz) or certain variable refresh rates, but that's a minority